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Off grid boosting fix is like waiting for a miracle?
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Keno Skir
#101 - 2013-01-27 06:35:39 UTC
So.. will it be ok to just extend the grid by a few thousand km ourselves? Cool

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#102 - 2013-01-27 11:17:00 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
It's clearly not an issue for CCP at this time, so I spent this morning fitting a Loki for OGB, and will be setting up either a Sleip or a Damnation/Absolution this afternoon.

Hate to say it, but if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.


Yep, that's why things need to get on the right track.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-01-27 11:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Celly Smunt wrote:
3 of my accounts have toons on them with all leadership skills to lvl 5, it was done intentionally, other accounts have pilots that can run the 5 link legion or tengu, again, done intentionally.
A decent gust of wind would likely rip those ships apart simply because of the role they are fit for.


And this is where OGB is wrong.

Me too wants to provide reps and energy off grid, hell I want to shoot ammo from the pos at 185AU but I can't, I have to go with my ship on the battlefield and assume the consequences for joining the fight.

So must this happen to links, on grid only. Don't be afraid.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#104 - 2013-01-28 20:31:32 UTC
Boosts don't make or break a fight at least not for us. All our ships can perform to the same effect without them.

I find the problem with most of our targets as a corp is the fact that most people can't grasp the way we fly and blame boosts.

Boosts aren't the reason you can't hit my ship thats another game mechanic entirely (sig radius/speed vs gun resolution).

However boosts are the reason you didn't get to run away as easily as you would have hoped and I think this is what angers people the most. When things go south they want to run outside of point range and high tail it but I have a boosted point so they can't do this which in turn causes rage towards boost when the person should be looking critically at why they failed the fight in the first place.

Everyone knows me I fly oversized AB exclusively and I promise you I didn't win because of boost, I won because my sig radius isn't 4x the necessary resolution for your guns to track properly. This is how we fight outnumbered and will always be that way. Don't blame boosts blame your lack of understanding of my flight tactics.

Besides the OGB won't even matter in high sec anyways. But I won't lie I don't feel like having to warp the command ship on grid every time I fight even though I can hold the fight easily without it.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#105 - 2013-01-28 20:55:02 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:

I find the problem with most of our targets as a corp is the fact that most people can't grasp the way we fly and blame boosts.

Boosts aren't the reason you can't hit my ship thats another game mechanic entirely (sig radius/speed vs gun resolution)..



Both effected by boosts.

DOH!

Solj RichPopolous wrote:


Everyone knows me I fly ....



Yes of course, everyone knows you. It is definitely not just in your own mind where you are famous. Definitely not.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#106 - 2013-01-28 20:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Cearain wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:

I find the problem with most of our targets as a corp is the fact that most people can't grasp the way we fly and blame boosts.

Boosts aren't the reason you can't hit my ship thats another game mechanic entirely (sig radius/speed vs gun resolution)..



Both effected by boosts.

DOH!

Solj RichPopolous wrote:


Everyone knows me I fly ....



Yes of course, everyone knows you. It is definitely not just in your own mind where you are famous. Definitely not.


I meant to put everyone WHO knows.

And sig radius reduction isn't going to matter if my sig radius is still 5x bigger than necessary now is it?

Guns start to miss fairly easily at about 1500m/s or so, I should have clarified this. You don't need boost to obtain this speed.
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#107 - 2013-01-28 22:34:39 UTC
Nerfing the boosts effective percentages is rather pointless. Leadership skills have been around for quite some time but over the ages more and more complainers come to the forum want heads on the table for why they lost.


9 times out of 10 people die due to their own piloting errors/fc errors. As I stated before boosts is just one of many advantages people have to gain an edge in a fight. If you arent going into a fight with an advantage then you will lose every time.

Skill does count as an advantage and yes I know most of you wont admit to sucking. Thats where most go wrong in the first place.


Reiterate my points from earlier:

Logi's and jammers are far better game changers than boosts.

Logi's can PERMANENTLY keep a ship on field alive

Jammers can PERMANENTLY jam a ship out of a fight

BOOSTERS CANNOT directly affect a fight like said ships above. When you pvp with a booster you still have to grab point and fire your guns in order to win. Boosters are not game changers, they are just another ADVANTAGE!

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#108 - 2013-01-28 22:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
CCP have already stated on several occasions that OGB is going away


Which means it will happen sometime between soon™ and never.

Quote:
Logi's and jammers are far better game changers than boosts.

Logi's can PERMANENTLY keep a ship on field alive

Jammers can PERMANENTLY jam a ship out of a fight

BOOSTERS CANNOT directly affect a fight like said ships above. When you pvp with a booster you still have to grab point and fire your guns in order to win. Boosters are not game changers, they are just another ADVANTAGE!


This is so good it has to fattening.

You can now kill people directly with logistic ships and jammers.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#109 - 2013-01-28 23:22:35 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
CCP have already stated on several occasions that OGB is going away


Which means it will happen sometime between soon™ and never.

Quote:
Logi's and jammers are far better game changers than boosts.

Logi's can PERMANENTLY keep a ship on field alive

Jammers can PERMANENTLY jam a ship out of a fight

BOOSTERS CANNOT directly affect a fight like said ships above. When you pvp with a booster you still have to grab point and fire your guns in order to win. Boosters are not game changers, they are just another ADVANTAGE!


This is so good it has to fattening.

You can now kill people directly with logistic ships and jammers.


If you cannot see how a logi or a jammer more directly affects a fight than a booster then you do not deserve to be in a fleet.

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#110 - 2013-01-29 01:56:45 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
CCP have already stated on several occasions that OGB is going away


Which means it will happen sometime between soon™ and never.

Quote:
Logi's and jammers are far better game changers than boosts.

Logi's can PERMANENTLY keep a ship on field alive

Jammers can PERMANENTLY jam a ship out of a fight

BOOSTERS CANNOT directly affect a fight like said ships above. When you pvp with a booster you still have to grab point and fire your guns in order to win. Boosters are not game changers, they are just another ADVANTAGE!


This is so good it has to fattening.

You can now kill people directly with logistic ships and jammers.


If you cannot see how a logi or a jammer more directly affects a fight than a booster then you do not deserve to be in a fleet.


If you cannot see how Siege and Information warfare links directly affects a fight by boosting a logi or a jammer, you do not deserve to be in a fleet.
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#111 - 2013-01-29 02:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Confirming that people only complain about things they loose to. We fight boosted fleet just as well as unboosted they all die in a fire just the same.

If you play your game with the stupid selected item window you've already lost the fight. approach F1 pvpers lol. I must catch web/scram or else I can't function. I can't think of other tactics to use against my opponent other than my cookie cutter fit. Everything has a counter in this game boosts are just an advantage as he said but so what?

If you make a well rounded fleet, boosts really aren't an issue.
Most people don't want to actually form a fleet that complements its parts. Everyone wants to jump into "DPS" and get top damage on the mail and not fill roles such as effective tackling and making up for the fleet's weaknesses.

We like to fly essentially more or less nano fits. Now as an FC in my fleet I naturally think when we head out what are my weaknesses? Obviously long range webbing ships. Say I run into an actual tanky webber such as the brick loki. I have already prepared for this and whether the loki has boosted web/point range or not he will still die because his counter is in place and ready to damp him into nothing. The good thing about this little juicy ship is effectively removes all forms of "nuisance" ships from the field whether they have boosts or not.

So in that I say boosts don't decide the fight its pilot skill and fleet composition.

I use a snake pod as well maybe my implants should be targettable modules on my ship, since they clearly give such a boost in my fight over other players who don't have them.
Same goes for slaves and all the other implants. In fact anything that boosts in this game over another player except skills should be removed or made destroyable.

Or better yet we can remove boosts all together make more implant slots that would basically fill the role that a booster (i.e. longer point range slot 16) would.
Would people still complain then?
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2013-01-29 02:47:55 UTC
*Having serious pre-nano-nerf flashbacks* CCP already said they are going to change OGB...when they get around to it is anyone's guess and how they "fix" it is probably even a greater mystery...but much like the doomsayers who said no one would ever fly ishtars, vagas or sacs post nano-nerf...I call bull. Boosters will still be part of the game just not as OP as they currently are. I'd be happy with a couple suggestions Ive already seen 1)no hiding in POS 2) links increas signature making you easier to probe.
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#113 - 2013-01-29 03:09:00 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
I guess that's because really, CCP are a business, and will go with the masses to create the most profit. It's a shame to wave goodbye to such an adrenaline pumping, exciting game, and welcome this "Not-so-sandbox" they're slowly creating.

And yeah, CCP have only boosted solo in 3 ways the last few years.
1. Tech 3 Cruiser Boosts
2. Ancilliary Shield Boosters
3. Making blasters good again.

For that i'm thankful, however, for what we're about to recieve, I am not.

P.S. CCP, If 1 person could change your mind, DO NOT REMOVE OFF GRID BOOSTING. You're nerfing it enough already.
P.P.S. Sorry for completely hi-jacking your thread OP.
-Buhhd


Eve Online is a MassiveMultiplayerOnline game, not Solo Tetris Online.

OGB has to go away, it's a bad mechanic and since you're talking about sandbox where is the "consequence" for the POS kissing multimillion fit/implants booster alt?
-none, you can't get retribution, he's totally safe behind the POS shields providing overpowered boosts from 1m to 285 AU large system.



make a POS bubble block all boosts, or at the very least combat related boosts so perhaps the rorqual thing can still boost mining but no siege or other links. So ppl parked inside a POS bubble can well.. look a thier ship in space and be useless while at it
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#114 - 2013-01-29 05:54:50 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:


We like to fly essentially more or less nano fits. Now as an FC in my fleet I naturally think when we head out what are my weaknesses? Obviously long range webbing ships. Say I run into an actual tanky webber such as the brick loki. I have already prepared for this and whether the loki has boosted web/point range or not he will still die because his counter is in place and ready to damp him into nothing. The good thing about this little juicy ship is effectively removes all forms of "nuisance" ships from the field whether they have boosts or not.



By that logic CCP could go ahead and buff thrashers (or insert any other random subcap ship) to do 100000 DPS because you can counter them with sensor dampeners as well?
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#115 - 2013-01-29 16:54:44 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:


We like to fly essentially more or less nano fits. Now as an FC in my fleet I naturally think when we head out what are my weaknesses? Obviously long range webbing ships. Say I run into an actual tanky webber such as the brick loki. I have already prepared for this and whether the loki has boosted web/point range or not he will still die because his counter is in place and ready to damp him into nothing. The good thing about this little juicy ship is effectively removes all forms of "nuisance" ships from the field whether they have boosts or not.



By that logic CCP could go ahead and buff thrashers (or insert any other random subcap ship) to do 100000 DPS because you can counter them with sensor dampeners as well?


What does that have to do with anything I'm not following. I'm talking about my thought processes when forming my own fleet specifically not anyone elses. Why would CCP add 100000 DPS ships for me?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#116 - 2013-01-29 17:07:36 UTC
This has become a bad thread, and I feel bad for starting it.

If you think you can win without your ogb alt then do it. But we all know you won't put down the crutch.

If you weren't so dependant on them you wouldn't be in this thread making bad arguments of why OGBs don't really change much.

Pad your killboard with leet "solo" and "small gang" kills while you can. CCP knows OGBs are a cancer for the game's long term health. Its just a matter of time before it is removed.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#117 - 2013-01-29 23:34:38 UTC
Cearain wrote:
This has become a bad thread, and I feel bad for starting it.

If you think you can win without your ogb alt then do it. But we all know you won't put down the crutch.

If you weren't so dependant on them you wouldn't be in this thread making bad arguments of why OGBs don't really change much.

Pad your killboard with leet "solo" and "small gang" kills while you can. CCP knows OGBs are a cancer for the game's long term health. Its just a matter of time before it is removed.



CCP also understands that complainers and sore losers flood these forums with BS everyday.

OGB are less of an asset as a logi or a falcon considering they don't directly affect a fight. The only thing that drives people mad about them is that they are too lazy to train any other skill in leadership BUT leadership level 5. When the skills are completed the Rewards are worth the time put in to get them.


This argument is just like a person working 10 hours a week wondering why the person working 40 hours a week makes more. THE MORE TIME YOU PUT INTO SOMETHING THE MORE YOU GET OUT OF IT!


btw, I bet you assume everyone has a booster so you blob them :)
Weaklings always tend to stick together...

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#118 - 2013-01-30 02:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Silk daShocka
Zeus Maximo wrote:

OGB are less of an asset as a logi or a falcon considering they don't directly affect a fight..


Example #1 of how OGB directly affects a fight. Target is 3km out of point range when your fleet lands. Turn on links, target is now tackled.

Is that not direct to you?

Example #2: Your logi is struggling to keep ships up with the loads of dps the enemy is pouring on them. Turn on links, now your whole fleet will take less damage, perhaps enabling logi to keep up with dps. Also, your logi will rep faster with less drain on capacitor.

I think the only reason people are saying the effects are not "direct" is because teh boosters aren't actually on grid at this point. Since it really doesn't make sense to say that these boosts do not directly affect your ability to tank or do other things on the battlefield.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#119 - 2013-01-30 08:49:49 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Posted in the thread about combat battlecruisers:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We eventually want links to be something you use on field

As I've stated repeatedly restricting links to be on-field only is a bad idea. Fleets can't all always be on the same grid at the same time. If I'm part of a small gang chasing potential targets around the interceptors are going to need the benefit of skirmish gang links, but because they have different warp speeds there's two options here, neither of which are attractive at all: either the interceptor warps after the target alone and loses the fleet bonus, or it warps along with the boosting ship - while that ensures the interceptor will have the skirmish bonuses when they land, you're cutting the ceptor down to less than a quarter of its original warp speed and so chances are you won't be able to catch up with a target that's warped off ahead of you.

There are other problems with forcing links to be on field including the fact that the only way to get the best industrial bonuses is to use a several billion isk ship that's completely immobile and defenseless for five minute blocks of time - forcing the bonuses to be on grid won't bring the ship on grid, it will simply mean that the only reason anyone will ever use the industrial core is for compression jobs.

There are ways to solve the problem of invincible OGB ships - forcing all of them to be on grid is not one of the more comprehensive solutions.


In addition there's the issue of "on-grid" not necessarily meaning "at risk". I can park my boosting ship 300km from the gang and nobody will be able to touch it.

The frigate problem could easily be solved by a new group of fast warping T2 frigate support dessies able to fit a link.

Remove standings and insurance.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#120 - 2013-01-30 09:09:25 UTC
Chribba wrote:
If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module? Lol

/c


Rorquals in belts is going to be entertaining.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016