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Dread blapping

First post
Author
Omen Nihilo
Omen Holdings
#201 - 2013-01-25 20:26:05 UTC
Dr Agropoly wrote:
Incindir Mauser wrote:
Quote:
There are no farming ops in wspace. WHs run out of sites fast preventing this. Propaganda is bad mmmk?


That's why we evicted (temporarily) a CFC alt corp from a hole last weekend because it wasn't a farm. It wasn't 3 guys on 16 accounts setting up a farm. No sir. Nope. No blueballing there. No intentions of chain-rolling their static with dreads and farming ladars with a metric shitton of Ventures. I was totally wrong. We had lots and lots of fights all weekend. They didn't try to sneak a cyno out to call their null buddies in...Nope. No sir. Not at all. They didn't mass self-destruct ships they couldn't log out in... Nope. It was gudfites all the time.

Totally legit WH PvP corp.

That's why Exhale did the same thing to them about a month earlier. Because it wasn't a handful of nullbears with multiple accounts farming WH isk. It was gudfites. Them bears finally realized how terrible null life is and wanted to turn over a new leaf in W-space and become a corp that has a strategy other than logoffski, hot drop o'clock, or drakeblob.

Yup. Total propaganda.


So you evicted them because they wanted to fight?????
That makes no sense at all.

What is sarcasm.
Dr Agropoly
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#202 - 2013-01-26 02:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Agropoly
Casirio wrote:
Dr Agropoly wrote:
Incindir Mauser wrote:
Quote:
There are no farming ops in wspace. WHs run out of sites fast preventing this. Propaganda is bad mmmk?


That's why we evicted (temporarily) a CFC alt corp from a hole last weekend because it wasn't a farm. It wasn't 3 guys on 16 accounts setting up a farm. No sir. Nope. No blueballing there. No intentions of chain-rolling their static with dreads and farming ladars with a metric shitton of Ventures. I was totally wrong. We had lots and lots of fights all weekend. They didn't try to sneak a cyno out to call their null buddies in...Nope. No sir. Not at all. They didn't mass self-destruct ships they couldn't log out in... Nope. It was gudfites all the time.

Totally legit WH PvP corp.

That's why Exhale did the same thing to them about a month earlier. Because it wasn't a handful of nullbears with multiple accounts farming WH isk. It was gudfites. Them bears finally realized how terrible null life is and wanted to turn over a new leaf in W-space and become a corp that has a strategy other than logoffski, hot drop o'clock, or drakeblob.

Yup. Total propaganda.


So you evicted them because they wanted to fight?????
That makes no sense at all.


I hope your joking... and yeah I feel its our duty as pvp wormhole residents to rid w-space of null bears and farming systems. Yes we did evict a CFC alt corp from a c6 a month or so ago. Glad to see others are doing Bob's work too.


If they are just there to bear ofc I'd like them to gtfo, think I misunderstood the post though since as I read it it seamed more like they decided to kick them after they brought a fight.
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#203 - 2013-01-26 06:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Incindir Mauser
Dr Agropoly wrote:
If they are just there to bear ofc I'd like them to gtfo, think I misunderstood the post though since as I read it it seamed more like they decided to kick them after they brought a fight.


If there was fights to be had that weekend, it wasn't in that PoS-bash.

Not that I didn't have some fun bullshitting and chasing ventures and cov-ops around in my Scorpion.

But the ****** mechanics of null are spilling over into w-space and it's irritating that it takes 36 hours to root out people that are only there to multi-box and bot and never really put up much of a fight. The cherry on top was that it was CFC alt-pet-bots.

It'd rather lose 14 ships a week than sit and watch nullbears hiding in PoSes. The mass of dead sticks in low end holes is also starting to get dumb. It was as much an eviction inspired by Bob's Righteous Fury, and indignation that they didn't get the hint the first two times they were served.

Who's idea was it to allow big PoSes in small holes again?

Dread blappage is lame for sure. And I for one support nerfing having capitals in holes. Want escalations? Bring in another couple battleships.

Or better yet, a new ship class between Battleship and Dreads. Tech 3 Battleships you can load out for PvP or PvE activities.

In an ideal world for myself. PoSes wouldn't take three days to bash or require super high tedious maintenance, and T3's would be a little less powerful.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#204 - 2013-01-26 06:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
Incindir Mauser wrote:
Who's idea was it to allow big PoSes in small holes again?


If large POSes can be killed in high sec without capitals, they can be killed in low-class wormholes without capitals. Stop trying to put in arbitrary restrictions to make a job you chose to do easier.

Incindir Mauser wrote:
Or better yet, a new ship class between Battleship and Dreads. Tech 3 Battleships you can load out for PvP or PvE activities.


Tech 3 battleships would be cool. One of their propulsion systems could be for reducing the effect of their mass on wormhole transiting, so you could use more than a handful of them in a hole and hope to come home.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#205 - 2013-01-26 11:32:57 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Tech 3 battleships would be cool. One of their propulsion systems could be for reducing the effect of their mass on wormhole transiting, so you could use more than a handful of them in a hole and hope to come home.

Sounds cool Big smile

Although, if T3 battleships scale in price from T1 battleships similar to how T3 cruisers scale up from T1 cruisers, they'd cost 50 billion apiece Ugh

.

Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#206 - 2013-01-26 13:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Fremen
"Mechanics" don't "spill over" without a patch. That's paranoia. And I think it's a bully's mentality to complain about the difficulty in evicting someone out of their home. A lot of good corporations start from lower class wormholes. Put in the time and work if you want to raze someone's home.
gnome proper
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2013-01-26 23:02:29 UTC
Anyone that has a slight clue about PVP will see that Moros is overpowered in the role it is being used in w-space - blapping subcaps. Any argument against that simple fact is a lie.

A dreadnought should never be able to hit a cruiser or frigate, it's just silly now.
Hound Halfhand
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#208 - 2013-01-27 01:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hound Halfhand
First off I see massive T3 and Guardian gangs much more of an issue than "dread blapping". Second of all I see the people who fly in massive T3 and Guardian gangs complaining about dreads. It seems people want to bring massive gangs to the fight and see absolutely no losses on their KB. IMO there is nothing wrong with dreads. They need a supporting fleet including at least a carrier and a webbing Loki and likely much much more against very a large fleet with neuting Legions, Guardians Proteus's and Bhaalgorns.

It is good that there is a effective counter to those T3/Guardian fleets.

As a side note, I do not fly dreads and we rarely use them in PvP. I do however fly T3s, Guardians and Bhaalgorns and FCed and flown with fleets that have been annihilated by dreads.
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#209 - 2013-01-27 02:20:08 UTC
http://kb.hardknocksinc.net/index.php/kill_detail/5172/
http://kb.hardknocksinc.net/index.php/kill_detail/5174/

In this fight, only one t3 died to dread blapping. Everyone else got maybe 1 good hit in and we couldnt hit it again. This was with at least 6 webs and 3 TPs on each target.

However 1 moros was able to almost kill 2 revs and an archon. I agree that the moros is a little OP. However being to track small ships... not so much.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#210 - 2013-01-27 03:11:09 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
http://kb.hardknocksinc.net/index.php/kill_detail/5172/
http://kb.hardknocksinc.net/index.php/kill_detail/5174/

In this fight, only one t3 died to dread blapping. Everyone else got maybe 1 good hit in and we couldnt hit it again. This was with at least 6 webs and 3 TPs on each target.

However 1 moros was able to almost kill 2 revs and an archon. I agree that the moros is a little OP. However being to track small ships... not so much.


Again, just because you are bad at dread blapping doesn't mean it isn't a problem (based on the fit of your lost rev, you guys aren't fit properly - 2 tracking mods, no drop in cargo). Come back when you guys learn to do it properly.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#211 - 2013-01-27 03:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Fremen
Everyone just focking cope. Also, scotch gives you a megaphone. Can we stop posting here now? I'm gonna go back to drinking. Ciao.
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#212 - 2013-01-27 06:38:56 UTC
Two step wrote:
QT McWhiskers wrote:
http://kb.hardknocksinc.net/index.php/kill_detail/5172/
http://kb.hardknocksinc.net/index.php/kill_detail/5174/

In this fight, only one t3 died to dread blapping. Everyone else got maybe 1 good hit in and we couldnt hit it again. This was with at least 6 webs and 3 TPs on each target.

However 1 moros was able to almost kill 2 revs and an archon. I agree that the moros is a little OP. However being to track small ships... not so much.


Again, just because you are bad at dread blapping doesn't mean it isn't a problem (based on the fit of your lost rev, you guys aren't fit properly - 2 tracking mods, no drop in cargo). Come back when you guys learn to do it properly.


LOL really? Well that was relatively easy to devolve into forum trolling from a legitimate debate. Dont be all butthurt because people disagree with you.

I agree that the moros is OP. I agree that all other dreads pale in comparison to this awesome beast. I do not agree that it can easily track everything in its path. Even on SISI with an untanked tracking moros with 3 mag stabs, 3 tracking enhancers, 5 tracking computers and strong drop running, I have problems hitting things. Even when my alt goes out in the rapier with webs and painters to help me its not easy. Sometimes I get lucky and find someone who is bad at piloting and just motors away, sometimes I get good and hit a tengu that just warped in for 20k instablapping them, but the majority of the time, I have to fire my guns for several cycles before I score a hit.

Also... what constitutes being bad/good at dread blapping? Cause, if I am not mistaken, when you have 4 tracking computers on your moros, and the thing you are shooting is moving at 20ms with 3 target painters on it... you are doing everything right.
Asssassin X
Gnomosexuals
#213 - 2013-01-27 11:42:02 UTC
Dread blapping is not a problem. It's nto common enough to be considered a problem. The main problem is idiot pilots and people posting that it is a problem!
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#214 - 2013-01-27 13:50:33 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
Also... what constitutes being bad/good at dread blapping? Cause, if I am not mistaken, when you have 4 tracking computers on your moros, and the thing you are shooting is moving at 20ms with 3 target painters on it... you are doing everything right.


20 m/s? You need 90% webs.

While the Moros is OP relative to other dreads, the Rev we killed was badly fit and apparently badly skilled. No tank of note, not even a RAH. The Archon should have been able to tank the Moros all day.

It was a fun GF though. Smile
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#215 - 2013-01-27 15:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Only thing I can see bad about the revelation fit is the rig slots - they don't really add significantly to the dps or tracking compared to the bonuses other rigs could have given the ship. 3x EANM type hardeners probably aren't ideal either but a lot of amarr ships and the rev included have odd base resists that makes it difficult to opptimise - tho a RAH would have probably worked a lot better than the ANP.


Dread blapping is a funny old thing sometimes you can just land solid shot after solid shot and then sometimes you get a ship you just can't hit for anything with similiar sigs/transversal to deal with :S the deal breaker as gypsio mentioned is 90% webs - I don't think you can even get the equivalent of a single 90% web with dozens and dozens of 60% webs due to the stacking penalty - IIRC the effectiveness maxes out around 87%. Slap a couple of 90% webs on something and it pretty much can be hit by anything.
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#216 - 2013-01-27 18:15:25 UTC
Fair warning guys, arguing with QT is like beating up that kid in the wheel chair for drooling.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2013-01-27 18:18:01 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
QT McWhiskers wrote:
Also... what constitutes being bad/good at dread blapping? Cause, if I am not mistaken, when you have 4 tracking computers on your moros, and the thing you are shooting is moving at 20ms with 3 target painters on it... you are doing everything right.


20 m/s? You need 90% webs.

While the Moros is OP relative to other dreads, the Rev we killed was badly fit and apparently badly skilled. No tank of note, not even a RAH. The Archon should have been able to tank the Moros all day.

It was a fun GF though. Smile


That's what people with clue use... 90% webs, equivalent of 4 unbonused webs. It's not the lokis or the painters that make it easy, it's these. The vast majority of people complaining about dread blapping seem to be clueless on how it's really being done effectively.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#218 - 2013-01-27 18:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Tisisan wrote:
Fair warning guys, arguing with QT is like beating up that kid in the wheel chair for drooling.


I think the main thing about that fight was that both sides commited capital(s) - albeit a bit of a mugs game with the mass restrictions dropping a small number of capitals into someones home WH (not knocking gypsio here - they wanted to go balls deep and have a proper fight and thats what they got). But it ties up dreads to shoot at appropriate sized targets rather than having nothing better to do than blap sub caps.
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#219 - 2013-01-27 20:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: QT McWhiskers
We, at first, didnt want to commit too many dreads as we didnt just want to spam 17 dreads against one moros. Not very sporting in all honesty. At least 5 more dreads could have been fielded by us in that engagement, but we wanted to hold back at first. When we saw the rev go down relatively quickly and saw the second dipping heavy armor, myself and another member just said **** it and reshipped from our prots. The tank on your moros was also a little high compared to others I have seen, although the damage you took was on par with the damage I usually take before dying on the test server. (Yes test server I know scrub fits on caps there)

We made a few mistakes there too as we were not expecting anything out of you. (No offense, very few are willing to take the fight into home wormholes) But you guys brought the fight and gave us a good time. Although you shouldnt have shot all the wrecks. Dreads are expensive, even for wormholers, pvp loot helps out a lot.

Also ignore tis, he is mad that I have better crayons than he does.
Janus Nanzikambe
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#220 - 2013-01-27 21:13:14 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
Although you shouldnt have shot all the wrecks.


The ethics behind that are indeed ... questionable.

I'll get me coat ...

Fake edit: Was gutted when that 2nd rev caught reps from the archon, doubly so when our Moros capped out with the archon in structure. GF GF o7