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Dear CCP Fozzie when can we expect to see OGB removed?

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#41 - 2013-01-25 23:54:09 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Nerfing the skills as a whole is what doesnt make sense here.


Can you please explain to me how leadership skills that provide 50% bonuses to hundreds of people at a time make any sense where people train months for a 2% bonus or billions for 20%?

Man up.

-Lang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#42 - 2013-01-25 23:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Because a command ship takes the information from dozens of pilots and analyses it to provide bonuses above the capabilities of any one pilot :D (which is one reason I think having hard to probe boosting ships doesn't make sense as anything transmitting that much telemetry would be lit up like a christmas tree).

What I don't think makes any sense is trying to engage a fleet of hundreds of pilots with ganglinks without ganglinks of your own and then complaining about it... makes about as much sense as complaining about people kiting you with shield ships in null if your silly enough to take a close range armor blaster fleet in against them.
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#43 - 2013-01-26 00:13:31 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
@Zeus Maximo:
Sorry that is a joke.
A big one.
Sorry that I don´t want that we play CCPs game to force everyone having 2 accounts to be able to do pvp.
When will CCP do sth about it? NEVER!
Because it is profitable to force players to do pvp with 2 toons at once.
1 for shooting and 1 for ogb.
Yeah that is "elite" pvp...

And don´t compare ogb with implants. OGB are almost unkillable in lowsec. Pods are killable.
Fearing you would be a looser without boosts? Yeah need to learn pvp then, hm?



A booster is just like another logi or falcon alt. If you are so much of a LOSER that you think 2 vs 1 in eve is so unfair for the 1 then sir you need to learn proper pvp. Eve is all about comprehending your surroundings, knowing when to fight, and what your ship can do. I think you should look up some of the great solo pilots of eve and ask them if their piloting helped them win while outnumbered or a ship. Yes a booster in a sense is an implant.

Legion booster gives you more ehp and helps you rep faster for the price of around 10 billion
Slots 1-10 for implants will also help you do the same thing but for the price of around 3 billion.

You upset that you cant afford to buy a toon or train one up?

If you had your way you would nerf t2 mods because your t1 mod wasnt as viable.....

As CCP has always said, train for it :)

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#44 - 2013-01-26 00:19:06 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:
[quote=Liang Nuren]


Why would you want the 10 million skill points in leadership to now be deemed worthless? Do people not deserve something special if they spend an entire year training for one specific ship?

On grid or off boosts are readily accessible to eve players. All they have to do is train for them..... To have something nerfed because 99% of the eve population is too lazy to wait a year for leadership skills is rather dumb. People put their time into these characters and they should be able to keep what they have earned.

If anything should be switched around it should be the bonuses from the t3's to the command ships. Give the command ships the racial bonuses considering they are literally titled "command ships" using "command links." Give the t3's current command ships bonuses considering they can already cloak and use the interdiction subsystem. Nerfing the skills as a whole is what doesnt make sense here.



Your right that year of training should count.

Maybe ccp should go in the opposite direction. Not only should I not have to be on grid with my booster ship, I should not even have to sign in with my booster alt, and still get the bonuses.



So does this mean my logi and falcon alts dont have to be on field either? They directly effect the enemy EVEN more but yet you arent complaing about them.

Would you rather shoot someone with 20,000 more ehp or be jammed and not be able to shoot them at all?

Would you rather shoot someone with a really good active tank or shoot at someone being repped by a logi/capital alt?

I'll tell you one thing, id rather fight just the 1 guy than have to deal with being jammed or shooting at a target that easily reps against my dps.

Your logic is flawed.

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#45 - 2013-01-26 01:45:58 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Because a command ship takes the information from dozens of pilots and analyses it to provide bonuses above the capabilities of any one pilot :D (which is one reason I think having hard to probe boosting ships doesn't make sense as anything transmitting that much telemetry would be lit up like a christmas tree).

What I don't think makes any sense is trying to engage a fleet of hundreds of pilots with ganglinks without ganglinks of your own and then complaining about it... makes about as much sense as complaining about people kiting you with shield ships in null if your silly enough to take a close range armor blaster fleet in against them.


I thought we just covered the fact that I have my own gang links.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#46 - 2013-01-26 02:23:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
The day after team grind lock figure out how to do it without breaking everything else, they be gone.

Said so in the CSM minutes unless I read them wrong.


Well to be exact, the next scheduled patch after that day.


Hooray for buffs to gatecamping blobs
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#47 - 2013-01-26 04:26:19 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Hooray for buffs to gatecamping blobs


Do you really expect a gate camping blob to not have its own links at this point? Roll

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#48 - 2013-01-26 04:42:23 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Hooray for buffs to gatecamping blobs


Do you really expect a gate camping blob to not have its own links at this point? Roll

-Liang


Rules of the eve forums:

1) Every possible balancing change will be somehow spun to be a buff to blobs, gatecamps or goons or a nerf to solo/small gang PVP.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#49 - 2013-01-26 06:49:53 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Hooray for buffs to gatecamping blobs


Do you really expect a gate camping blob to not have its own links at this point? Roll

-Liang


Not at all, but that moment people attacking them can have links too.
Sigras
Conglomo
#50 - 2013-01-26 07:25:42 UTC
The problem is that off grid boosters allow ships to drastically effect the battlefield with no danger to themselves.

Now i ask you now is this fair?
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#51 - 2013-01-26 08:04:54 UTC
I have an alt with all Vs in Leadership, the whole damned tree. Max skills for all the T3s except Proteus, and Command Ships V.

Gang links provide a HUGE benefit to the side that has them. I for one think that those 56% bonuses (I think its 56%) should be toned down to closer to 5-10%.

Yes, I have a tonne of skill points in Leadership (15,872,000 to be precise), and I think links in their current state are stupid powerful, off-grid or not, and need to be toned the heck down.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#52 - 2013-01-26 08:26:10 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:


So does this mean my logi and falcon alts dont have to be on field either? They directly effect the enemy EVEN more but yet you arent complaing about them.

Would you rather shoot someone with 20,000 more ehp or be jammed and not be able to shoot them at all?

Would you rather shoot someone with a really good active tank or shoot at someone being repped by a logi/capital alt?

I'll tell you one thing, id rather fight just the 1 guy than have to deal with being jammed or shooting at a target that easily reps against my dps.

Your logic is flawed.

I'd rather fight the bastard with the Falcon or Guardian showing up on grid, and be able to call for reinforcements to kill all of his ships than fight the guy who is recieving assitance from some near unprobable ship that's likely completely safe in a POS.

Honestly I'd rather not fight the guy because it's ******* obvious from the Damnation/Vulture/Eos/Claymore right next to him that he ******* has links.

And if those links warp in after the fight has started? So be it, at least he had the balls to bring them on grid. Now I'll consider the "honorable" 1v1 dishonorable, and call for allies to come blow his **** up.

But what, are you a coward? Risk averse? Want the reward, but with no risk? You want your cake, and to eat it too? Want your sweet bonuses given to you by a completely safe ship that's a distance away from any fighting? You want a very large bonus to some very important stats, but you don't want to risk anything at all? Are we all playing the same game? This is EVE Online. Risk versus reward. You gotta risk to get the reward. At least those implants you were touting are risked by being on the goddamn grid. Man the **** up and bring your links on grid.

And yeah, so I don't have a booster alt myself. Doesn't matter, where I used to roam there were standing fleets all over the place with instantly accessable links. I didn't need my own booster. And I hated every minute of it. I knew that I crushed people who should have beat me. I knew that I was abusing newbies by doing this. But the boosts: why run without them? Risk nothing, gain everything.
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#53 - 2013-01-26 17:26:20 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:


So does this mean my logi and falcon alts dont have to be on field either? They directly effect the enemy EVEN more but yet you arent complaing about them.

Would you rather shoot someone with 20,000 more ehp or be jammed and not be able to shoot them at all?

Would you rather shoot someone with a really good active tank or shoot at someone being repped by a logi/capital alt?

I'll tell you one thing, id rather fight just the 1 guy than have to deal with being jammed or shooting at a target that easily reps against my dps.

Your logic is flawed.

I'd rather fight the bastard with the Falcon or Guardian showing up on grid, and be able to call for reinforcements to kill all of his ships than fight the guy who is recieving assitance from some near unprobable ship that's likely completely safe in a POS.

Honestly I'd rather not fight the guy because it's ******* obvious from the Damnation/Vulture/Eos/Claymore right next to him that he ******* has links.

And if those links warp in after the fight has started? So be it, at least he had the balls to bring them on grid. Now I'll consider the "honorable" 1v1 dishonorable, and call for allies to come blow his **** up.

But what, are you a coward? Risk averse? Want the reward, but with no risk? You want your cake, and to eat it too? Want your sweet bonuses given to you by a completely safe ship that's a distance away from any fighting? You want a very large bonus to some very important stats, but you don't want to risk anything at all? Are we all playing the same game? This is EVE Online. Risk versus reward. You gotta risk to get the reward. At least those implants you were touting are risked by being on the goddamn grid. Man the **** up and bring your links on grid.

And yeah, so I don't have a booster alt myself. Doesn't matter, where I used to roam there were standing fleets all over the place with instantly accessable links. I didn't need my own booster. And I hated every minute of it. I knew that I crushed people who should have beat me. I knew that I was abusing newbies by doing this. But the boosts: why run without them? Risk nothing, gain everything.


You are using one of the many advantages, like a booster, to save your life.

Your help line of choice: The Blob

You are also starting to talk like all of eve pvps with a pos in system...

This all comes back to having an advantage in eve. If you dont one up your opponent then you are going to lose every time. This is eve, PEOPLE DO NOT FIGHT FAIR.

If I was risk adverse I would sit in a pos all day and maybe wonder out when a blob big enough is there to hold my hand. You see, that is one of the advantages I listed(blob). As we all know these days and what our corp commonly comes across is people that refuse to fight man vs man. They prefer to bait with a ship and then allow 20 other people to jump in and f1 pound.

Since we have common sense we expect every fight to be a trap. If you arent prepared for a LOSERS blob to come in while playing the game called eve then you are a fool; especially in low/null sec.

As the saying goes: In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace

Next time you pvp try to remove all of the advantages I listed and see how long you last. Just because I built a bigger and better castle in my sandbox doesnt mean I need to help you build yours. Figure things out on your own and be more prepared next time :)

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#54 - 2013-01-26 17:55:06 UTC
Paikis wrote:

Gang links provide a HUGE benefit to the side that has them. I for one think that those 56% bonuses (I think its 56%) should be toned down to closer to 5-10%.


Problem is tone them down to that level and a lot of people will be like "why bring a ganglink ship just bring another dps ship on that alt" I've had a hard enough time getting people I fly with recognise the usefulness of links as it is. The problem there tho is the massive bonuses on some recons - extending a 14km web to 20km on a normal ship isn't a huge deal, increasing rapier (non-heated) web range from 56 to 85.5km is a much bigger deal - personally I think a ship webbing beyond 60km without overheating is quite over the top atleast for PVP its pretty useful for PVE.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#55 - 2013-01-26 19:05:00 UTC
Sigras wrote:
The problem is that off grid boosters allow ships to drastically effect the battlefield with no danger to themselves.

Now i ask you now is this fair?


Posed up links are safe, but you can definitely kill link boats in space. Ive done it to others, ive lost linkboats myself.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#56 - 2013-01-26 20:05:37 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Hooray for buffs to gatecamping blobs


Do you really expect a gate camping blob to not have its own links at this point? Roll

-Liang


Not at all, but that moment people attacking them can have links too.


So if everyone has them, then how is nerfing them a buff to gate camping blobs? Oh wait, it's not.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Newt Rondanse
Magnificent Mayhem Mining
#57 - 2013-01-26 20:37:58 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Nerfing the skills as a whole is what doesnt make sense here.


Can you please explain to me how leadership skills that provide 50% bonuses to hundreds of people at a time make any sense where people train months for a 2% bonus or billions for 20%?

Man up.

-Lang

It's the modules and implants that provide the extreme bonuses.

10% tops off skill alone.

So they don't have to touch the skills to rebalance this.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#58 - 2013-01-27 05:09:02 UTC
Sigras wrote:
The problem is that off grid boosters allow ships to drastically effect the battlefield with no danger to themselves.

Now i ask you now is this fair?


Since when has eve been about fair? :P
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#59 - 2013-01-27 07:59:28 UTC
Newt Rondanse wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Nerfing the skills as a whole is what doesnt make sense here.


Can you please explain to me how leadership skills that provide 50% bonuses to hundreds of people at a time make any sense where people train months for a 2% bonus or billions for 20%?

Man up.

-Lang

It's the modules and implants that provide the extreme bonuses.

10% tops off skill alone.

So they don't have to touch the skills to rebalance this.


I have to admit that the leadership skills themselves are fine to me. The gang links are the problem child (IMO).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2013-01-27 11:22:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
The day after team grind lock figure out how to do it without breaking everything else, they be gone.

Said so in the CSM minutes unless I read them wrong.


Well to be exact, the next scheduled patch after that day.


Well no discussion or anything if this is a good change or not?