These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

[CrdG] The Shifting of the Tide

Author
Condor Amarr
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-01-26 07:42:00 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
Mra Rednu wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Once, there was a Statist. He took every system that belonged to the Federals, and he pronounced victory.

He was wrong.

Once, there was a Federal. He took every system that belonged to the Statists, and he pronounced victory.

He was wrong.

Now, there is an Imperial. He took a handful of systems that belonged to the Tribals, and he predicted victory.

He will be wrong.


You missed the line: Once there was a lot Tribals who declared victory over the Imperials before it was won, they were wrong and a lot are now working for us.




You call them 'Tribals', I call them race traitors. At best they are mere mercenaries without any Minmatar blood to discgrace. You may keep the trash.



Just so I have this clear:

You cry that Amarr enslaved your people (and still do, although the current Empress has taken steps to eventually eliminate this).
You yell and shout to whoever will listen that it's better to die free than live a life doing what others tell you to do.....
THEN you claim that, when some Minmatar come to the Amarr to fight, they "have no Minmatar blood to disgrace" and "we can keep the trash".

So, in summary: We are horrible people because we force our beliefs on people. You are awesome because you're all about freedom.... Until someone actually excersices that freedom. Then, well they are just trash.

Oh my god, the irony here is palpable. You are one of the best public relations assets Amarr have. Please, never stop talking.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#22 - 2013-01-26 10:11:54 UTC
I like the part where I'm trash and without minmatar blood.

-I hunted amarr in minmatar space.

-I lose sec status.

-The local minmatar are aware of why my sec status is the way it is.

-I am then hunted as a pirate by my own people and the militia.

-They are happy when I help them yet shoot me when it suits them.

The very militia I had hunted for months welcomed me with open arms. I now fly with capsuleers that have lost hundreds of millions of isk because of my actions. My own people couldn't see past my sec status.

I now fight for freedom but its not the way I expected when I first flew into low security space.



Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2013-01-26 12:16:19 UTC
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
The Amatarr are valuable members of The Empire, savage. So, please, keep calling them trash and discarding them. We'll be happy to give them the status they deserve.


Is it too much to ask that the civilized Amarr overseers spell the name properly ?
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#24 - 2013-01-26 18:12:58 UTC
Condor Amarr wrote:

Just so I have this clear:

You cry that Amarr enslaved your people (and still do, although the current Empress has taken steps to eventually eliminate this).
You yell and shout to whoever will listen that it's better to die free than live a life doing what others tell you to do.....
THEN you claim that, when some Minmatar come to the Amarr to fight, they "have no Minmatar blood to disgrace" and "we can keep the trash".

So, in summary: We are horrible people because we force our beliefs on people. You are awesome because you're all about freedom.... Until someone actually excersices that freedom. Then, well they are just trash.

Oh my god, the irony here is palpable. You are one of the best public relations assets Amarr have. Please, never stop talking.


Sarum has released a single subset of the slave population, yes. Those whose families had been living as slaves under Amarrian influence for off the top of my head I believe eight generations. Arguably they were the most culturally assimilated people under Imperial rule and therefore the least likely to have any attachment to other Minmatar. If she were so interested in ending the practice of slavery she could instead have chosen the most recently taken, returning them to their homes and cutting into the traders profits. I am only so appreciative of that gesture or its wider impact. This has been debated before, extensively.

It is better to die free than die doing whatever others force you to do. An employer tells you to do something, an employee has a choice to refuse. That does not apply to a slave, as he gets no choice.

A Minmatar who fights for the Amarr Empire is fighting to uphold that same foul practice. He disgraces his tribe by doing so. Maybe he believes in the Amarrian faith, maybe he simply believes in ISK. It makes little difference in the end, the deed is done.

Those who I said 'have no Minmatar blood to disgrace' are not even Minmatar. I was referring to the non-Minmatar pilots now switching sides to profit from the swelling resources of the Imperial, same as they were doing on the other side before fortunes began to switch around. They are the mercenaries. They cannot betray or dishonour something they never were.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!

Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-01-26 23:18:45 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
The Ammatar are valuable members of The Empire, savage. So, please, keep calling them trash and discarding them. We'll be happy to give them the status they deserve.


Is it too much to ask that the civilized Amarr overseers spell the name properly ?


Fixed it, and no it's not. simple typo.

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#26 - 2013-01-26 23:40:18 UTC
Ugleb wrote:


Sarum has released a single subset of the slave population, yes. Those whose families had been living as slaves under Amarrian influence for off the top of my head I believe eight generations. Arguably they were the most culturally assimilated people under Imperial rule and therefore the least likely to have any attachment to other Minmatar. If she were so interested in ending the practice of slavery she could instead have chosen the most recently taken, returning them to their homes and cutting into the traders profits. I am only so appreciative of that gesture or its wider impact. This has been debated before, extensively.


Mr. Ugleb,

The Ninth Generation made up over Eight Hundred MILLION slaves. I understand the hatred you and your people have for the Amarr, but what would you have them do? The Ninth Generation represents the oldest, and most distinguished generation of enslaved Minmatar, and your suggesting that they have less right to freedom than a lesser generation? The Empire has sworn off taking new slaves since the official formation of the Minmatar Republic. There is likly very few, if any, who are old enough to remember having actually been taken and enslaved.

You really shouldn't scoff at progress, and the Minmatar Republic should prepare itself for the heafty demands it lays on the Empire given it can barely take care of the people it represents now.

Ugleb wrote:

It is better to die free than die doing whatever others force you to do. An employer tells you to do something, an employee has a choice to refuse. That does not apply to a slave, as he gets no choice.


Unfortunately, I know quite a few people who's choice in employment is 'take what available or starve'. Unfortunately that's not much of a choice really. I've seen slaves better off than most low wage workers.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2013-01-27 10:51:32 UTC
The "most recently taken" have not been taken out of slaving raids like in the Days of Darkness.

The "most recently taken" were mostly inner criminals or individuals.

Now the war has been going on though, new true Minmatar slaves have probably been taken again.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-01-27 15:34:53 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
Sarum has released a single subset of the slave population, yes. Those whose families had been living as slaves under Amarrian influence for off the top of my head I believe eight generations. Arguably they were the most culturally assimilated people under Imperial rule and therefore the least likely to have any attachment to other Minmatar. If she were so interested in ending the practice of slavery she could instead have chosen the most recently taken, returning them to their homes and cutting into the traders profits. I am only so appreciative of that gesture or its wider impact. This has been debated before, extensively.


That is precisely the goal of slavery: to assimilate those peoples foreign to the Empire into it. It happened to us Ni-Kunni, it happens to the Minmatarr and it will continue happening to whoever is enslaved for whatever reason. It is the purpose of slavery, and it does that mission very well, as you so say. Slavery is not a permanent thing, it's just a need that in time will be abandoned, when there is no need to enlighten anyone more into the ways of the Empire.

Quote:
It is better to die free than die doing whatever others force you to do. An employer tells you to do something, an employee has a choice to refuse. That does not apply to a slave, as he gets no choice.


If you so much like to die free, that can be arranged, don't worry. But I believe most people actually have taken some "liking" in living, and usually preferr that to death. So, if you have a death wish, don't think everyone else has so too.

As for the choice of an employee, don't be naive. You need the money, thus you need the job, thus you can't say no to your employer or you'll be fired and another will take your place. That is a truth in the Caldari State, the Gallente Republic, and specially in the Minmatarr Republic, which hosts so many unemployed people. They call it "the silent army", and every sociologist will point out quickly to how easily the amount of unemployed work to worsen the working conditions of the rest, as changing one for another makes the employers less dependant on them.

So no, captain Ugleb, your people are not free, and the more you "liberate" without improving the working conditions, the less free they are. At least we are honest about it. At least, in our case, losing that "so precious liberty" works for a greater good, and not simply for becoming less.

Quote:
A Minmatar who fights for the Amarr Empire is fighting to uphold that same foul practice. He disgraces his tribe by doing so. Maybe he believes in the Amarrian faith, maybe he simply believes in ISK. It makes little difference in the end, the deed is done.


Or maybe it is you who disgrace your tribe by denying the assimilation into the Empire that so many wish?

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Previous page12