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Rebuttal: Nerf Without Cause: Jump Drives

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#421 - 2013-01-26 01:29:17 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Pointing out the fact that you have expertise in something doesn't mean you have a huge ego.
You would be correct but that's not what he did.

That's exactly what he did, or do you need me to explain what an analogy is?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
ashley Eoner
#422 - 2013-01-26 02:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Pointing out the fact that you have expertise in something doesn't mean you have a huge ego.
You would be correct but that's not what he did.

That's exactly what he did, or do you need me to explain what an analogy is?
You can't really be that dense..


or are you?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#423 - 2013-01-26 22:14:57 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Pointing out the fact that you have expertise in something doesn't mean you have a huge ego.
You would be correct but that's not what he did.

That's exactly what he did, or do you need me to explain what an analogy is?
You can't really be that dense..


or are you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#424 - 2013-01-27 02:42:58 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Mynnna speaks from experience in a sov-holding null-sec alliance.


Sorry, but I think you are kidding yourself, mittens.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#425 - 2013-01-27 02:45:43 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is hard? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

mostly npc corps are doing the complaining and as everyone knows their opinions are based off emotions, not facts
but tell me more npc corp how easy everyone but you has it


I hesitated to place you in a category before. But you really are a ****.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2013-01-27 02:48:22 UTC
i thought the war was not supposed to happen?

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16068387 

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#427 - 2013-01-27 02:51:28 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
The people who are complaining about "power projection" are the people who have no significant experience in Nullsec and the people who recently got their **** kicked in by a better organized group with higher morale. I wonder why their opinions might reasonably be considered tainted (either by total cluelessness or by a desire to see their enemies hurt).

And if you got that out of the thread, you need to go back and slap your high school English teacher. This thread has been pages and pages of pointing out (with evidence) that nerfing Cynos and Jump drives would harm small groups far more than it would harm "the blob." Why? Because "the blob" has far more resources to throw at any logistical challenge than small groups do.

That's EVE Online, hurting everyone because the big baddies are part of everyone.


Have you ever considered that it might be just you, and a few people YOU like?
fukier
Gallente Federation
#428 - 2013-01-27 02:53:43 UTC
stuff is going boom!
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#429 - 2013-01-27 02:58:54 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
The people who are complaining about "power projection" are the people who have no significant experience in Nullsec and the people who recently got their **** kicked in by a better organized group with higher morale. I wonder why their opinions might reasonably be considered tainted (either by total cluelessness or by a desire to see their enemies hurt).

And if you got that out of the thread, you need to go back and slap your high school English teacher. This thread has been pages and pages of pointing out (with evidence) that nerfing Cynos and Jump drives would harm small groups far more than it would harm "the blob." Why? Because "the blob" has far more resources to throw at any logistical challenge than small groups do.

That's EVE Online, hurting everyone because the big baddies are part of everyone.


Have you ever considered that it might be just you, and a few people YOU like?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

The proposed changes* would hurt everyone else more than the people you don't like.

How can I make this any clearer? Help me to help you, Help me to help you.


*And there's a very strong, strategy stealing argument that any changes that attempt to hurt large groups will hurt everyone else at least as much as they hurt the large groups.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
fukier
Gallente Federation
#430 - 2013-01-27 03:01:53 UTC
if this is what goons and hbc not going to war then i like what i am seeing...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
ashley Eoner
#431 - 2013-01-29 05:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
Yup you're really that stupid.

So a nullsec dweller makes a comment that the majority of his peers have high sec characters to earn money then dude(the one you're defending) a couple posts later makes an analogy where he's saying that people in high-sec (bums) have no clue how the game works.

Yet you think this was a brilliant analogy on the dude's part...

Wow..

Bonus points here's the dude you're defending.

Quote:
mostly npc corps are doing the complaining and as everyone knows their opinions are based off emotions, not facts
but tell me more npc corp how easy everyone but you has it
Wild sweeping generalizations with a ton of ignorance to top it off. Not to mention the completely atrocious sentence structure.

Quote:
At a medical conference, is the illiterate hobo given equal time with the nobel prize winning doctor on a dicussion about medical treatment?
Spelling and grammatical errors aside he's once again making huge sweeping statements without anything resembling data.

Many of the people he's referring to are alts of nullsec dwellers. The people involved with small nullsec corporations and alliances don't tend to post on their mains either. So some of the NPC corp posts are from people who are possibly more experienced then Nicolo da'Vicenza...
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#432 - 2013-01-29 05:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
ashley Eoner wrote:
Yup you're really that stupid.

So a nullsec dweller makes a comment that the majority of his peers have high sec characters to earn money then dude(the one you're defending) a couple posts later makes an analogy where he's saying that people in high-sec (bums) have no clue how the game works.

Yet you think this was a brilliant analogy on the dude's part...

Wow..


Not anywhere near what he said. He compared NPC Corp posters to the illiterate hobo trying to get speaking time at a Medical conference. Not all players with HS characters. It's a distinction that, I guess, is only readily apparent to the literati.

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is hard? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

mostly npc corps are doing the complaining and as everyone knows their opinions are based off emotions, not facts
but tell me more npc corp how easy everyone but you has it
Clearly your intellectual prowess is on a level above everyone else. No fallacies in your thinking no sirreee..
At a medical conference, is the illiterate hobo given equal time with the nobel prize winning doctor on a dicussion about medical treatment?


The bolded is the subject of the italicized analogy.

Thanks for playing. Next time you might want to try a table that doesn't let us produce original posts to call you on your bull.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
ashley Eoner
#433 - 2013-01-29 05:17:58 UTC
Yeah because there's never ever an alt from a nullsec pilot in a NPC corp..
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#434 - 2013-01-29 05:20:11 UTC
So this thread is still going.


That amuses me.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#435 - 2013-01-29 05:24:21 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Yeah because there's never ever an alt from a nullsec pilot in a NPC corp..


I'm pretty comfortable calling anyone who's so afraid of imaginary people out to get them for their forum postings that they use an NPC corp alt to post: "illiterate hobos at a medical conference." Has nothing to do with where they claim to live.

Besides that, please feel free to show any proof that any of the NPC corp muckety mucks who have posted in this thread are actually alts of people who live in Nullsec.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#436 - 2013-01-29 05:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
ashley Eoner wrote:
Many of the people he's referring to are alts of nullsec dwellers.

[citation needed][Weasel Words]
Quote:
The people involved with small nullsec corporations and alliances don't tend to post on their mains either. So some of the NPC corp posts are from people who are possibly more experienced then Nicolo da'Vicenza...

[citation needed][Weasel Words]

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
ashley Eoner
#437 - 2013-01-29 05:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
RubyPorto wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Many of the people he's referring to are alts of nullsec dwellers.

[citation needed][Weasel Words]
Quote:
The people involved with small nullsec corporations and alliances don't tend to post on their mains either. So some of the NPC corp posts are from people who are possibly more experienced then Nicolo da'Vicenza...

[citation needed][Weasel Words]
Apparently hurpadurp is all you got. I also see that Nicolo da'Vicenza is one of your friends. Your ability to spell and use grammar correctly leads me to believe it's not your alt..


BTW citation isn't needed for the second one as there's already proof provided by a nullsec player that he has a highsec alt. I bet if we were to round him up he'd admit that the highsec alt is in a NPC corp. There's also the numerous times that members of goonswarm have admitted to having highsec NPC alts for various reasons.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#438 - 2013-01-29 05:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
ashley Eoner wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Many of the people he's referring to are alts of nullsec dwellers.

[citation needed][Weasel Words]
Quote:
The people involved with small nullsec corporations and alliances don't tend to post on their mains either. So some of the NPC corp posts are from people who are possibly more experienced then Nicolo da'Vicenza...

[citation needed][Weasel Words]
Apparently hurpadurp is all you got. I also see that Nicolo da'Vicenza is one of your friends. Your ability to spell and use grammar correctly leads me to believe it's not your alt..


You say all I have is "hurpadurp" (whatever that means), whatever.

I'll spell it out s l o w l y s o y o u c a n f i g u r e o u t m y m e a n i n g.

Which NPC Corp Hobos in this thread actually live in Nullsec? Which of those actually has more experience than Nicolo or Mynnna?

Don't post weasel words, stand up and say an actual thing.

Quote:
BTW citation isn't needed for the second one as there's already proof provided by a nullsec player that he has a highsec alt. I bet if we were to round him up he'd admit that the highsec alt is in a NPC corp. There's also the numerous times that members of goonswarm have admitted to having highsec NPC alts for various reasons.


Again, you're displaying your inability to read the analogy. We're talking about people who post with NPC corp alts. Specifically those who post in this thread.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#439 - 2013-01-29 07:27:05 UTC
I was in 0.0 when carriers and dreads were farily novel and battleship fleets were an alliance's power projection. There were no jump bridges or jump freighters...we used to guard regular old bathtubs up and down the pipe from 0.0 to empire. I think half the people
posting in here wanting things nerfed back to the stoneage either never have been to 0.0 or lived in the stone age or early 0.0.
Guess what...there were still powerful alliances that still beat the hell out of smaller alliances at will and took their stuff or made them pay a ransom to be left alone. If anything I look at the current mechanics as a good thing. They simplified the supply chains and made it easier to move your fleet. Ok so now they blob with super-carriers and titans instead of battleships and carriers...thats just a sign of progress...and who is on the recieving end of 99% of power-bloc power projection? Usually another power-bloc. And not even the most powerful power blocs are invincible. Go look at a couple years of the sov map...some of the current power houses have been back to 0.0 two or three times and a year from now may be back in empire again...
In real terms this argument equates that all RL navies who have naval aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines only be allowed to fuel their reactors to half capacity so developing natations who still use speed boats and AK-47's have a chance to assert regionl dominance...for once game and real life agree...big political blocks will always overshadow the smaller ones... so wildly swing nerf bats at things you don't like but even if capitals were nerfed out of the game you would still get steamrolled by someone with a new power projection eventually
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#440 - 2013-01-29 12:52:48 UTC
Andracin wrote:
. . . I think half the people posting in here wanting things nerfed back to the stoneage either never have been to 0.0 or lived in the stone age or early 0.0.
Guess what...there were still powerful alliances that still beat the hell out of smaller alliances at will and took their stuff or made them pay a ransom to be left alone. If anything I look at the current mechanics as a good thing. They simplified the supply chains and made it easier to move your fleet. Ok so now they blob with super-carriers and titans instead of battleships and carriers...thats just a sign of progress...and who is on the recieving end of 99% of power-bloc power projection? Usually another power-bloc. And not even the most powerful power blocs are invincible. Go look at a couple years of the sov map...some of the current power houses have been back to 0.0 two or three times and a year from now may be back in empire again...
In real terms this argument equates that all RL navies who have naval aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines only be allowed to fuel their reactors to half capacity so developing natations who still use speed boats and AK-47's have a chance to assert regionl dominance...for once game and real life agree...big political blocks will always overshadow the smaller ones... so wildly swing nerf bats at things you don't like but even if capitals were nerfed out of the game you would still get steamrolled by someone with a new power projection eventually


You (collectively) keep speaking of a "nerf" to jump drives, but what jump drives really are are a nerf to motion, space, and time. What I think we're calling for is for CCP to take a look at the possibility of un-nerfing motion, space, and time. You may have noticed that in the game, smaller ships tend to be faster. In real life, smaller animals tend to be quicker than larger ones. Smaller, simpler systems can be managed more efficiently than larger, more complicated ones.

Your analogy about aircraft carriers isn't quite right. The smaller alliances also have carriers, super carrier, and even titans. They just have fewer of them, so it's not like the Somali pirates versus the United States Navy. It's more like the United States Navy versus the Imperial Japanese Navy, in World War II, where, despite being short-handed, the US Navy was able to hold out and win defensively because the Japanese couldn't drop their entire fleet half-way across the world in the blink of an eye. Also reconsider your comment about larger political blocs overshadowing smaller ones; The US, today, represents just a small percentage of the human beings on this Earth, but we cast a pretty long shadow, despite being a relatively small group.

I'll tell you what, though. If you love being able to travel across multiple systems instantaneously, and think that only makes the game better, then surely you would support a buff to jump drives and the inclusion of such "progressive" technology into more ships, especially more subcapitals. Sound good?