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Rebuttal: Nerf Without Cause: Jump Drives

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Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#401 - 2013-01-25 22:08:17 UTC
I read the OPs post and all I see is "wahhhhhhhhhh, blobs, wahhhhhhhhhh, ccp plz kill sandbox kthanx"
ashley Eoner
#402 - 2013-01-25 22:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
yeah if you dont play the easiest and least challenging game you possibly can that means you're some kind of idiot
Wait this game is challenging? Lol really?

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is challenging? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

Extra points for posting that after pages of big nullsec alliance dwellers complaining that nerfing their mobility would add some challenges to their gameplay.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#403 - 2013-01-25 22:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
ashley Eoner wrote:

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is hard? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

mostly npc corps are doing the complaining and as everyone knows their opinions are based off emotions, not facts
but tell me more npc corp how easy everyone but you has it
ashley Eoner
#404 - 2013-01-25 22:11:41 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is hard? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

mostly npc corps are doing the complaining and as everyone knows their opinions are based off emotions, not facts
but tell me more npc corp how easy everyone but you has it
Clearly your intellectual prowess is on a level above everyone else. No fallacies in your thinking no sirreee..
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#405 - 2013-01-25 22:17:28 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is hard? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

mostly npc corps are doing the complaining and as everyone knows their opinions are based off emotions, not facts
but tell me more npc corp how easy everyone but you has it
Clearly your intellectual prowess is on a level above everyone else. No fallacies in your thinking no sirreee..
At a medical conference, is the illiterate hobo given equal time with the nobel prize winning doctor on a dicussion about medical treatment?
Google Voices
Doomheim
#406 - 2013-01-25 22:29:34 UTC
Wormholes have mass limits, why shouldn't cynos?

Base the mass limits on the size of the cyno ship, with the upper end... a Carrier able to cyno in the mass of 10 SC's/Titan's.

The bottom end would be a frig with the mass limit of 2 carriers/dreads/etc.

The smaller groups wouldn't be affected much, but moving lots of ships will require lots of cynos or risking carriers etc to cyno in...

"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle."
ashley Eoner
#407 - 2013-01-25 22:34:42 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is hard? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

mostly npc corps are doing the complaining and as everyone knows their opinions are based off emotions, not facts
but tell me more npc corp how easy everyone but you has it
Clearly your intellectual prowess is on a level above everyone else. No fallacies in your thinking no sirreee..
At a medical conference, is the illiterate hobo given equal time with the nobel prize winning doctor on a dicussion about medical treatment?
Haha.

God help us when this game closes. I don't think the universe could survive your ego collapsing..
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#408 - 2013-01-25 22:38:13 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is hard? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

mostly npc corps are doing the complaining and as everyone knows their opinions are based off emotions, not facts
but tell me more npc corp how easy everyone but you has it
Clearly your intellectual prowess is on a level above everyone else. No fallacies in your thinking no sirreee..
At a medical conference, is the illiterate hobo given equal time with the nobel prize winning doctor on a dicussion about medical treatment?
Haha.

God help us when this game closes. I don't think the universe could survive your ego collapsing..

Pointing out the fact that you have expertise in something doesn't mean you have a huge ego.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#409 - 2013-01-25 22:42:09 UTC
Google Voices wrote:
Wormholes have mass limits, why shouldn't cynos?

Base the mass limits on the size of the cyno ship, with the upper end... a Carrier able to cyno in the mass of 10 SC's/Titan's.

The bottom end would be a frig with the mass limit of 2 carriers/dreads/etc.

The smaller groups wouldn't be affected much, but moving lots of ships will require lots of cynos or risking carriers etc to cyno in...



so frig cynos in 2 carriers, 2 carriers light a cyno each and in comes 20 supers/titans, they light cynos, SUDDENLY SUPERS just like its always been, could probably do this in less than 30 seconds.

I dont think you really thought this through.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#410 - 2013-01-25 23:50:51 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
yeah if you dont play the easiest and least challenging game you possibly can that means you're some kind of idiot
Wait this game is challenging? Lol really?

In a thread were people are complaining about the ease of power projection and blobbing you're going to claim the game is challenging? Well I guess it can sometimes be a challenge to click someone in a massive blob of ships.

Extra points for posting that after pages of big nullsec alliance dwellers complaining that nerfing their mobility would add some challenges to their gameplay.


The people who are complaining about "power projection" are the people who have no significant experience in Nullsec and the people who recently got their **** kicked in by a better organized group with higher morale. I wonder why their opinions might reasonably be considered tainted (either by total cluelessness or by a desire to see their enemies hurt).

And if you got that out of the thread, you need to go back and slap your high school English teacher. This thread has been pages and pages of pointing out (with evidence) that nerfing Cynos and Jump drives would harm small groups far more than it would harm "the blob." Why? Because "the blob" has far more resources to throw at any logistical challenge than small groups do.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#411 - 2013-01-25 23:53:04 UTC
Google Voices wrote:
Wormholes have mass limits, why shouldn't cynos?


Because Nullsec isn't designed to cater to the same kind of groups as WH space?

Quote:
Base the mass limits on the size of the cyno ship, with the upper end... a Carrier able to cyno in the mass of 10 SC's/Titan's.

The bottom end would be a frig with the mass limit of 2 carriers/dreads/etc.

The smaller groups wouldn't be affected much, but moving lots of ships will require lots of cynos or risking carriers etc to cyno in...



So only large groups willing to risk a Carrier lighting a Cyno can use Supers? Sounds like a great plan.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#412 - 2013-01-26 00:06:45 UTC
Should capital ships be allowed to fit cynos?
ashley Eoner
#413 - 2013-01-26 00:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Pointing out the fact that you have expertise in something doesn't mean you have a huge ego.
You would be correct but that's not what he did.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#414 - 2013-01-26 00:11:40 UTC
considering 'power projection' is done via cyno alts I'm not sure what difference it makes
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#415 - 2013-01-26 00:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
marlona if you hate power projection why are you part of NCdot, an alliance that owes everything it has ever accomplished to smaller alliances with lots of caps and power projection being able to trump numerically superior foes?
i'll give you points for not just lobbying in your alliance's interests
but still, why?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#416 - 2013-01-26 00:26:40 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
marlona if you hate power projection why are you part of NCdot, an alliance that owes everything it has ever accomplished to smaller alliances with lots of caps and power projection being able to trump numerically superior foes?
i'll give you points for not just lobbying in your alliance's interests
but still, why?

When I did have a Nyx (which I sold after like 6 months) I even said then it was over powered. At the time super carriers were over powered, a lot. An absolute ton of EHP, countless drones and incredible ability to swat support ships out of the sky with little to no effort.

Was I automatically wrong because I owned one?

Furthermore, is there some rule that says unless you currently hold sov you have zero knowledge of sov mechanics? Unless you hold a absurd amount of sov, any points you make are automatically trumped and irreverent by those who have more than you?

It is about is silly as a 2012 Olympic gold medalist in swimming telling the a 2001 Olympic gold medalist in swimming they know nothing about swimming and therefor are automatically wrong and any debate between the two, the most current gold medalist is the automatic winner by default.

I don't like how some mechanics are in the game. Even if they are unbalanced and absurd. That does not mean I am not allowed to use them or it forfeits any argument I have in fixing them.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#417 - 2013-01-26 00:35:20 UTC
I was legit curious was all. NCdot seems like an odd fit for a diehard supercap hater is all.

Quote:
Furthermore, is there some rule that says unless you currently hold sov you have zero knowledge of sov mechanics?
It puts one's statements in context. I certainly don't agree with every bloc-endorsed idea.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#418 - 2013-01-26 00:48:29 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
I was legit curious was all. NCdot seems like an odd fit for a diehard supercap hater is all.

Quote:
Furthermore, is there some rule that says unless you currently hold sov you have zero knowledge of sov mechanics?
It puts one's statements in context. I certainly don't agree with every bloc-endorsed idea.

You think I'm a popular guy among the super cap bros in our alliance? Blink

I think when it comes to sov, super caps, power projection and any other incredibly complex topics and mechanics; maybe the best way to find a real fix we all would find balance, intuitive, dynamic and most of all, fun; would in fact be to stop trying to undo years of twists and turns on the Rubix Cube and start fresh.

Reestablish these things from the ground up. Keep going further into the core of the issue and address the catalyst that will dictate how the entire thing will play out. What good is constantly repairing and remodeling a house if the very foundation is cracked and uneven.

I would very much like to have a constructive thread with CCP, CSM and players from all play styles help determine and build a new foundation. Something we all can stand behind. Maybe one day. Straight
Chortle Chortle
#419 - 2013-01-26 00:53:38 UTC
1) Allow supers to dock.
2) Nerf supers to be the equivalent of tier 2-3 carriers. Give them 20% more (or less) ehp than carrier, 50% more damage.
3) Give all super pilots a years supply of exotic dancers + blue pills.
4) ???
5) Profit.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#420 - 2013-01-26 01:20:45 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
The people who are complaining about "power projection" are the people who have no significant experience in Nullsec and the people who recently got their **** kicked in by a better organized group with higher morale. I wonder why their opinions might reasonably be considered tainted (either by total cluelessness or by a desire to see their enemies hurt).

And if you got that out of the thread, you need to go back and slap your high school English teacher. This thread has been pages and pages of pointing out (with evidence) that nerfing Cynos and Jump drives would harm small groups far more than it would harm "the blob." Why? Because "the blob" has far more resources to throw at any logistical challenge than small groups do.

That's EVE Online, hurting everyone because the big baddies are part of everyone.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?