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EVE's summer expansion better focus on sovereignty
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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2013-01-25 20:25:45 UTC
Random Majere wrote:

My friend, I cannot be bitter...cause I was not with Nulli at the time. Also, why should I be bitter in seeying my allliance loose its space. Disapointed yes...but bitter no.

This is a game...not my life.


Bitter because your ~*~elite pvp~*~ has been outclassed by a bunch of people who pride themselves on being terrible at EVE.

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#342 - 2013-01-25 20:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Dave Stark wrote:
actually let me make it easy for you. finish this sentence "adding a cooldown to jump drives help the little guys because...."

...instead of having to fight everyone in the enemy coalition, they would only have to fight those close by. If for some reason the enemy coalition decided to send EVERYONE, they would leave the rest of their territory open to be invaded by all the other 'little guys' near the other parts of the enemy coalition. Which would result in massive loss of territory for the 'big guy'. Also to address your, "We will just have capitals staged EVERYWHERE to avoid the time bottleneck on power projection!" All I can inform you is that traveling via gates takes much, much longer than using jump drives. So the time bottleneck is still there. P

EDIT: Funny how you are saying I can't use the tacticl implication of a 3rd party that would threated a large coalitions space if they are on the other side of space dealing with 'the little guy'.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#343 - 2013-01-25 20:33:39 UTC
Yeah, let's ignore the rest of his post.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#344 - 2013-01-25 20:36:42 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, let's ignore the rest of his post.


they've been doing it since they brought up the terrible idea of jump drives having a cooldown (at least, i think that's the point they were trying to bring up, they were rather vague about it.)
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#345 - 2013-01-25 20:42:35 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, let's ignore the rest of his post.


they've been doing it since they brought up the terrible idea of jump drives having a cooldown (at least, i think that's the point they were trying to bring up, they were rather vague about it.)

So you sent your blob to fight a little guy and lost a ton of space to the other two dozen little guys who took advantage of you being gone.

That one little guy was stepped on just the same as he is under current mechanics. The big difference in the larger picture is a lot of other little guys were able to make you pay for it. Thus, it helped out a lot of the little guys. I keep pointing this out time and time again, yet you guys keep pretending it was never said.
Dave Stark
#346 - 2013-01-25 20:44:35 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
actually let me make it easy for you. finish this sentence "adding a cooldown to jump drives help the little guys because...."

...instead of having to fight everyone in the enemy coalition, they would only have to fight those close by. If for some reason the enemy coalition decided to send EVERYONE, they would leave the rest of their territory open to be invaded by all the other 'little guys' near the other parts of the enemy coalition. Which would result in massive loss of territory for the 'big guy'. Also to address your, "We will just have capitals staged EVERYWHERE to avoid the time bottleneck on power projection!" All I can inform you is that traveling via gates takes much, much longer than using jump drives. So the time bottleneck is still there. P

EDIT: Funny how you are saying I can't use the tacticl implication of a 3rd party that would threated a large coalitions space if they are on the other side of space dealing with 'the little guy'.


i didn't say you couldn't. i simply said i was unwilling to discuss it until we'd discussed the original point, which i proved wrong, which you denied and didn't produce any counter points to. everything in due time, mon ami.

again, instead of actually saying how this helps little guys, you simply make comment of third parties. now try again at finishing the sentence. third party intervention helps regardless of your size. i want to know specifically how this idea helps the little guy. because third party intervention is already in the game. so are you just admitting this idea of yours is bad and redundant?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#347 - 2013-01-25 20:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Marlona Sky wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, let's ignore the rest of his post.


they've been doing it since they brought up the terrible idea of jump drives having a cooldown (at least, i think that's the point they were trying to bring up, they were rather vague about it.)

So you sent your blob to fight a little guy and lost a ton of space to the other two dozen little guys who took advantage of you being gone.

That one little guy was stepped on just the same as he is under current mechanics. The big difference in the larger picture is a lot of other little guys were able to make you pay for it. Thus, it helped out a lot of the little guys. I keep pointing this out time and time again, yet you guys keep pretending it was never said.


But that won't happen, because of timers.
You can't just get rid of timers without replacing it with something with similar functionality, as much as you seem to think that's a great idea.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#348 - 2013-01-25 20:46:37 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, let's ignore the rest of his post.


they've been doing it since they brought up the terrible idea of jump drives having a cooldown (at least, i think that's the point they were trying to bring up, they were rather vague about it.)

So you sent your blob to fight a little guy and lost a ton of space to the other two dozen little guys who took advantage of you being gone.

That one little guy was stepped on just the same as he is under current mechanics. The big difference in the larger picture is a lot of other little guys were able to make you pay for it. Thus, it helped out a lot of the little guys. I keep pointing this out time and time again, yet you guys keep pretending it was never said.


well no, because if that was truely the case, you wouldn't bother flattening the little guy and you'd just stay in your own sov and never fight any one and create a boring risk averse 0.0.

your idea is crap, deal with it.

we don't pretend it wasn't said, i've addressed it several times, but you choose to focus on this one point which WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING YET becaue your other point is so bad and you refuse to accept it so the conversation can move on.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2013-01-25 20:48:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

But that won't happen, because of timers.
You can't just get rid of timers without replacing it with something with similar functionality, as much as you seem to think that's a great idea.


To elaborate on this should timers be removed it would require organizations to grow even bigger than they already are to defend their space because now they require enough active people that they can defend everything 23/7 in all TZs. So basically that means only the CFC and HBC would remain, what a good idea Marlona.

The point of timers are so that the defender gets a chance to fight, completely ignoring the defender would make sov even worse than it already is.

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#350 - 2013-01-25 20:51:53 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
But that won't happen, because of timers.
You can't just get rid of timers without replacing it with something with similar functionality, as much as you seem to think that's a great idea.

And once again you guys keep citing broken mechanics in the current sov system. Wow, just wow.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#351 - 2013-01-25 20:53:40 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
But that won't happen, because of timers.
You can't just get rid of timers without replacing it with something with similar functionality, as much as you seem to think that's a great idea.

And once again you guys keep citing broken mechanics in the current sov system. Wow, just wow.

So the one thing that makes it possible for people to defend their structures on their own time instead of waking up to find all their space destroyed without a fight is a broken mechanic?
Come on now.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gerard Hareka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2013-01-25 20:54:41 UTC
goon
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#353 - 2013-01-25 20:57:02 UTC
Gerard Hareka wrote:
No you goon.

Following your logic, movement should instantaneous and that would make blobs obsolete.

Yeah right !!!!

Uh, what? No...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#354 - 2013-01-25 20:57:27 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Gerard Hareka wrote:
No you goon.

Following your logic, movement should instantaneous and that would make blobs obsolete.

Yeah right !!!!

Uh, what? No...

yeah, i was thinking exactly the same.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#355 - 2013-01-25 20:59:05 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
But that won't happen, because of timers.
You can't just get rid of timers without replacing it with something with similar functionality, as much as you seem to think that's a great idea.

And once again you guys keep citing broken mechanics in the current sov system. Wow, just wow.

So the one thing that makes it possible for people to defend their structures on their own time instead of waking up to find all their space destroyed without a fight is a broken mechanic?
Come on now.

Usage of the system should determine who has sov, not who was first to stab some millions and millions of hit points flag in space and walk away.

Hold on. I thought you were the OP declaring that structure grinding and the current sov system is terrible. Now you are defending it?

So confusing...
Dave Stark
#356 - 2013-01-25 21:01:59 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
But that won't happen, because of timers.
You can't just get rid of timers without replacing it with something with similar functionality, as much as you seem to think that's a great idea.

And once again you guys keep citing broken mechanics in the current sov system. Wow, just wow.

So the one thing that makes it possible for people to defend their structures on their own time instead of waking up to find all their space destroyed without a fight is a broken mechanic?
Come on now.

Usage of the system should determine who has sov, not who was first to stab some millions and millions of hit points flag in space and walk away.

Hold on. I thought you were the OP declaring that structure grinding and the current sov system is terrible. Now you are defending it?

So confusing...


just because the OP thinks it's a terrible system, doesn't change how the system works.

you made a point.
he told you that's not how it would happen due to how the mechanic currently works.
you ignore that and complain he is talking about a mechanic the thread is designed to discuss. i assume you did this because you were, once again, proven wrong.

could you at least *try* and be coherent in your responses?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2013-01-25 21:03:18 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

Usage of the system should determine who has sov, not who was first to stab some millions and millions of hit points flag in space and walk away.

Hold on. I thought you were the OP declaring that structure grinding and the current sov system is terrible. Now you are defending it?

So confusing...


Yeah you are deliberately ignoring timers put in place so each side has their chance to fight over something. Usage based or not these timers will still be required unless you can find away to allow both sides to fight without them.

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Gianna Thirostin
Doomheim
#358 - 2013-01-25 21:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gianna Thirostin
Lol.. so basically this whole thread has boiled down to a whine about boring "sov mechanics", then a constant stream of comments saying how bad changes to the "broken sov mechanics" would be for the game and turns into defending the very thing that the whine was started about (btw, which is it guys, structure grinding and timers a horrible plague or a necessary mechanic?). Im beginning to think the null powers that be really don't want a change, just to whine and bring attention to their new RvB 0.0 content which would otherwise get little to no attention
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#359 - 2013-01-25 21:20:56 UTC
Gianna Thirostin wrote:
Lol.. so basically this whole thread has boiled down to a whine about boring "sov mechanics", then a constant stream of comments saying how bad changes to the "broken sov mechanics" would be for the game and turns into defending the very thing that the whine was started about (btw, which is it guys, structure grinding a horrible plague or a necessary mechanic?). Im beginning to think the null powers that be really don't want a change, just to whine and bring attention to their new RvB 0.0 content which would otherwise get little to no attention

Perhaps you haven't read, because pretty much nobody has given any realistic changes to the sov mechanics and have instead decided to latch on to a completely separate issue because they feel like soapboxing.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#360 - 2013-01-25 21:44:10 UTC
Cool down timers are a dumb idea. I will not give you the reasons for this as they have already been stated many times in the posts above.

Timers are a necessary evil as people have stated so it gives the defender a chance to defend their space.

Having to grind through billion hp structure shoots flipping dead or fringe systems is the problem.

Systems should have a way to tie the HP or resists of a structure to the actual usage of the system. If someone want to start attacking your fringe regions of space that have almost no activity they should be able to do this quite quickly. Someone wants to attack your home system that has the most activity in it like a VFK it should be a long and tough grind.

I dont think anyone really minds having a tough structure shoot if you know that doing this will cripple the enemy but when you have to do this after the enemy has already pulled out of the area it shouldn't be like this.

Wolf