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Minmatar are going to become the crap, CCP wants retribution not balance
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Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#241 - 2013-01-25 18:17:57 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
20 seconds of cap vs overheat ability. Personal choice. Shrug.

To be honest, I forgot you could OH invulns for a moment there. You make a good point.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#242 - 2013-01-25 18:21:22 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Seeing as how people kite with Drakes, I'm pretty sure it is.

-Liang


People don't kite with drakes. Using an MWD and moving at 1000m/s isn't kiting, MWD for positioning is entirely different. Drakes buffer tank. kiting involves using a range advantage to mitigate damage. Drakes sit at long range and throw missiles, then soak up fire using EHP and logistics in fleets. Most solo/small gang drakes fit webs and slow targets down to get better missile damage... that's not kiting. Infact sticking 2 nanofibres on it barely makes any difference, but more BCS's makes a huge difference.

Faction 100MN fit's are another story. But that's always the case.


You can kite just fine in a drake!


Battleships can outrun you. It doesn't kite. MWD /= kiting. Before scrams turned off MWD's, they where considered 100% required for almost every PVP ship. The MWD is to keep you in range a bit longer for chasing targets, or keep your out of range for a little longer while being approached. having 100kEHP and a sig radius the size of a moon is not a kiting fit.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#243 - 2013-01-25 18:51:59 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:

Similar gross EHP with LSE II, Adaptive Invuln II, and CDFE x 3 without a 10 million isk ACR?


I considered that, but discarded it because of the cap requirement. It's a good point for the spendthrift though.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#244 - 2013-01-25 19:11:31 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:

Battleships can outrun you. It doesn't kite. MWD /= kiting. Before scrams turned off MWD's, they where considered 100% required for almost every PVP ship. The MWD is to keep you in range a bit longer for chasing targets, or keep your out of range for a little longer while being approached. having 100kEHP and a sig radius the size of a moon is not a kiting fit.


You've spent too much time in null sec and are completely out of touch with how to fly a Drake. Or potentially even a kiting ship as a whole.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Shadowschild
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2013-01-25 19:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowschild
I completely disagree with the entire thread. The rupture got a boost with extra mid & is now a bit overpowered.
You need to realize Minmatar have a rep for awesome sub-caps & ****** capitals.

And seriously who cares about kiting.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#246 - 2013-01-25 19:53:05 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:

Battleships can outrun you. It doesn't kite. MWD /= kiting. Before scrams turned off MWD's, they where considered 100% required for almost every PVP ship. The MWD is to keep you in range a bit longer for chasing targets, or keep your out of range for a little longer while being approached. having 100kEHP and a sig radius the size of a moon is not a kiting fit.


You've spent too much time in null sec and are completely out of touch with how to fly a Drake. Or potentially even a kiting ship as a whole.

-Liang


I flew the drake almost exlusively in rancer.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#247 - 2013-01-25 20:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Ok, well maybe you never knew how then. People kite with Drakes quite successfully.

-Liang

Ed: I think it sad that we're discussing whether Drakes can kite in a thread about Minmatar ships. At any rate, the Drake kites fine and so does the Rupture. See the rather large explanation for why. If you disagree, let's talk about that instead of why you suck at finding fights and flying Drakes.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2013-01-25 20:34:04 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:

Battleships can outrun you. It doesn't kite. MWD /= kiting. Before scrams turned off MWD's, they where considered 100% required for almost every PVP ship. The MWD is to keep you in range a bit longer for chasing targets, or keep your out of range for a little longer while being approached. having 100kEHP and a sig radius the size of a moon is not a kiting fit.


You've spent too much time in null sec and are completely out of touch with how to fly a Drake. Or potentially even a kiting ship as a whole.

-Liang


I flew the drake almost exlusively in rancer.


See , that is your problem right there. If you think you cant kite in a drake, where have you been the last year(s)? The drake is (was) (tier3s are better now) the best kiting battlecruiser in the game, it still is pretty good at it.
yer mammy
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2013-01-25 21:28:39 UTC
this thread sucks@!
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#250 - 2013-01-25 21:58:17 UTC
The Rifter has been forgotten about and cast aside because of all you whiners who used to be scared children clutching on the Rifter's ball-sack claiming it to be the best frigate ever and whining how nothing else could compare (meanwhile I was destroying 90% of Rifters in my Incursus every day since like... Aopocrypha hahaha)

You've brought this on yourselves, you've got the Slasher now, the Rifter will no doubt be looked at at some point

Also, nevermind what a 1,000 m/s Stabber w/ full tackle, dual neuts and 180s could be capable of doing in scram range - don't ever think outside the ball, kids! It's purely a kiter!

I never considered Minmatar very OP - maybe very very marginally over-powered, but it was nothing to write home about IMO, these days... they're about on par

NOT THAT ANYONE CARES WHAT I THNK FFS

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2013-01-25 22:53:38 UTC
If you want to do a ab, scram frig killer/sig tanker. You can do a pretty awesome dualprop thorax.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#252 - 2013-01-25 23:32:01 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ok, well maybe you never knew how then. People kite with Drakes quite successfully.

-Liang

Ed: I think it sad that we're discussing whether Drakes can kite in a thread about Minmatar ships. At any rate, the Drake kites fine and so does the Rupture. See the rather large explanation for why. If you disagree, let's talk about that instead of why you suck at finding fights and flying Drakes.


Fitting an MWD doesn't mean you are a kiting ship. The drake always has a huge amount of HP to fall-back on. it's not a true kiting ship. The reason people fly it is due to its projection and buffer ability. The MWD with a bit of agility/speed from nano's is a nice addition but secondary to the HP is has as a tank method.

True kiting ships use range/sig/speed to mitigate damage and have a buffer fit as a safe-guard against being insta-popped.

Or we can look at it from the perspective of: The drake is a true kiting ship.

In which case i want more HP on my stabber, vagabond, deimos and every T3 battlecruiser.

I know snaked/gang linked drakes with some nano's can reach a good speed, but it's not any higher than another ship in that same situation. And you know yourself what its sig radius with an MWD on is like to incoming weapons fire. It practically mitigates the speed element of it's mitgation.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#253 - 2013-01-25 23:33:35 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
True kiting ships use...


No True Kiting Ship...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2013-01-25 23:42:07 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ok, well maybe you never knew how then. People kite with Drakes quite successfully.

-Liang

Ed: I think it sad that we're discussing whether Drakes can kite in a thread about Minmatar ships. At any rate, the Drake kites fine and so does the Rupture. See the rather large explanation for why. If you disagree, let's talk about that instead of why you suck at finding fights and flying Drakes.


Fitting an MWD doesn't mean you are a kiting ship. The drake always has a huge amount of HP to fall-back on. it's not a true kiting ship. The reason people fly it is due to its projection and buffer ability. The MWD with a bit of agility/speed from nano's is a nice addition but secondary to the HP is has as a tank method.

True kiting ships use range/sig/speed to mitigate damage and have a buffer fit as a safe-guard against being insta-popped.

Or we can look at it from the perspective of: The drake is a true kiting ship.

In which case i want more HP on my stabber, vagabond, deimos and every T3 battlecruiser.

I know snaked/gang linked drakes with some nano's can reach a good speed, but it's not any higher than another ship in that same situation. And you know yourself what its sig radius with an MWD on is like to incoming weapons fire. It practically mitigates the speed element of it's mitgation.


2km/s is more then enough to kite, especially as you have two 19km webs to keep fast tackle from shutting your mwd off.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#255 - 2013-01-25 23:43:26 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:

True kiting ships use range/sig/speed to mitigate damage and have a buffer fit as a safe-guard against being insta-popped.


Isn't this the entire concept philosphy of the famous PODLA drake?

Hell I kite in scram range. Just cos you define kiting as zipping around @ multiple k's per second not everyone does.

if you are faster than your opponent or have the ability to dictate range through webs/scram/nuets w/e then you can kite.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#256 - 2013-01-25 23:55:36 UTC
Since were discussing Minnie ships does anyone have any feedback on the new cane, how does it perform now compared to before and what are it's ideal situations?

Oderint Dum Metuant
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#257 - 2013-01-26 06:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Tormak
Aralieus wrote:
Since were discussing Minnie ships does anyone have any feedback on the new cane, how does it perform now compared to before ....

Performance? Like sexual?? Ugh

Aralieus wrote:
.... and what are it's ideal situations?

Sold at the marketplace

No but really it's the same ship as before; you just use a fitting rig and you might get less damage or damage projection. Other than that, yeah, Winmatar

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#258 - 2013-01-26 06:56:49 UTC
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Aralieus wrote:
Since were discussing Minnie ships does anyone have any feedback on the new cane, how does it perform now compared to before ....

Performance? Like sexual?? Ugh

Aralieus wrote:
.... and what are it's ideal situations?

Sold at the marketplace

No but really it's the same ship as before; you just use a fitting rig and you might get less damage or damage projection. Other than that, yeah, Winmatar


Use a single named LSE to avoid the fitting mod. It's better that way.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#259 - 2013-01-26 23:24:01 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:

True kiting ships use range/sig/speed to mitigate damage and have a buffer fit as a safe-guard against being insta-popped.


Isn't this the entire concept philosphy of the famous PODLA Drake?


It is. Podla has nowhere near the tank of the standard brick or even Goon fleet drake, sacrificing it all for kiting power, while retaining web and point.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#260 - 2013-01-27 03:22:27 UTC
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Also, nevermind what a 1,000 m/s Stabber w/ full tackle, dual neuts and 180s could be capable of doing in scram range - don't ever think outside the ball, kids! It's purely a kiter!


That doesn't really work though...

Unless you're trying to fight BS's i guess..

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