Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So it's more to do with gun requirements then.

I think that Nanite Paste for normal reppers is the way to go instead of having them consume cap. Also why do plates needs PG?

Don't make any sense to me why bolting plates on a hull requires more power for a simple buffer fit, whereas I can understand the rationale behind an energised plate needing powergrid as it enhances resistances etc.

So Fozzie, how about no PG for plates and no cap use for reppers (just nanite paste).

A step in the right direction.
Now if only you would reduce cap boster charge size.

Poor guy, all he wanted was to give the ravenous horde a new toy and now he gets to revise the whole shebang

Ships 'meant' to active tank already have the grid for it. The reductions are I assume to first counter the pending rig penalties and secondly to help ease the 'mandatory for active' injector onto some more fits (instead of using small with 400 navy booster).
Much easier, faster to tweak the repairers than to redo all the hulls and guns to make them match, so good move, whether it is enough remains to be seen but my Amarr ships have never had serious grid issues and the few fits that do take the dps hit to accommodate it so all is well ..

Aim should be to find a fitting req. that allows one to shoehorn a plate (non-oversized)+AAR onto a ship with max size guns I think, any more lenient and it gets boring and cookie flavoured .. there has to be some had choices before undocking!

Going from a previous post that compared the PG increase between armor reppers and shield boosters:

Moa (electron blaster fit): 516.5/522.5 CPU, 1086/1168.75, has an XLASB (TWICE oversized module) with one Co-Proc and one Ancil rig (fit has T2 MagStab, T2 TE, T2 Co-Proc in the lows, T2 MWD, web, scram, T2 invuln and XLASB, 5T2 Heavy Electron Blaster two shield rigs and the ancil)
Apparently, DOUBLE-oversizing is possible.

Thorax, trying to fit similarly with armor...
LAAR with the 10% PG reduction and THREE T1 Ancil rigs: 2798.5/1364.5, so 205% of the available PG used up.
Apparently nooo way in hell can you oversize it.
Heck, just fitting a LAAR on an otherwise UNFIT ship (apart from the tripple PG rigs): 1800/1364,3, or on an unrigged: 1800/1025

But ok, just because shield cruisers can double-oversize, it doesn't mean armor cruisers need to be able to single-oversize.

Brutix with 3 PG rigs and nothing else: 1800/1913, it fits after the change!
Sure, it cannot fit any MWD afterwards, and only one T2 Heavy Electron Blaster...

So...
I guess the aim was not to allow single oversized modules on armor BCs, while double oversizing is possible for cruisers.

...Was it... to basically make the PG drawback of the active rep rigs null and void?
Can put 3 on a cruiser and be better off than on the current TQ version at modest skills, will be able to put almost two on a BS once the change happens if Armor Rigging skill is at V.

Well... I suppose every tiny bit helps.
Wonder which word in the previous sentence the emphasis is on?
sarcasm is now off

Come to think of it, why not just remove small shield boosters from the game, rename mediums to smalls, larges to medium, and XL to large?
Then people couldn't complain about how armor cannot oversize, while shield can double-so.


Because more PG-less tank modules would be bad.
Atmo guns, prop mods, cap boosters/drainers, repairers, raw buffers and the odd modules like warfare links use PG, while DC, resist modules don't.

Having reppers cost that much more PG and also cap is already "bad" enough, the balance in fitting going further for buffer isn't really needed.

Well, unless you want shield extenders to be also no-PG, and armor reppers halved, then all armor-tanking capable ships re-tiericided...

If you call the gun a candy, the gun will lose ability to shot?

In 1.1 retribution Fozzie shouldnt start thread with: "Armor tanking 2.0 (1.5 now)"
Its better: "We are finaly nerfing shield tank: all ridiculous mods like ASB, useless penalty that "cost" nothing for shield tank and etc"

But hey, im glad for this change as well. I belive step by step CCP will find balance and design between armor and shield tank :)

Most people would rather camp the combat areas with capitals, pirate ships, and tournament ships than test this stuff.

This is the right way. But please don't stop here.

Just to get me right. I don't expect or want any overpowert stuff!
But I expect to be able to use more then one race for the hard PvE stuff. Atm shield tankers (espezialy Caldari Command Ships and Tengus) are the only viable option for let's say L10 exploration sites or higher Wormhole content (L5 and L6) as they are the only ships which can fit enough tank AND gang to do them.

I have the same problem as I had with the old mining bargs. Even if there are many other ships around ... just very few can do it and I am FORCED to use this few ships.

But I would REALY love to use Legions, Absolutions, Astartes or Proteus for the same stuff. It does not matter which one somebody prefares ... but if you start as Galente or Amar you shouldn't be FORCED to crosstrain Caldari just to get excess to the "endgame" PvE.

And the hardcap atm is, sorry to say, the ability to fit propper tanks!

Just as EFT-playaround: try this with a Legion or Proteus (armor tanked)
[Tengu, New Setup 1]
3*Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

1MN Afterburner II
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster(twice oversized modul !!!!)
Shield Boost Amplifier II
2*Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II

5*Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

2021 defence !!!!
42 sec cap with all active
593 Firepower
CPU and PG left !!!!

And this with only one (very expensive, true) deepspace modul! Rest is "just" T2 with T1 rigs. Spend more money and you gain even creazier values :(.

PS: The ability to fit Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster(twice oversized modul !!!!) at a Tengu (or BC) is compareble to fit
[Legion, New Setup 1]
6* TACHION BEAM LASER
PPS: try to fit ONE Tachion before you answare ;)

I guess the issue of oversized modules deserves separate discussion. You cant address everything at once.