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Promissory Note and Collateral Services
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Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-01-25 14:12:07 UTC
Hey guys,

I have an idea, and will be executing this, line of service to assist those who will be Lending money in loan agreements.
I work with Real Estate out of pod, and feel that my services can be of use in the lending of ISK in the EVE Universe.

My goal is to be a servicer to create Promissory Notes and Collateral Agreement documents for Lenders to use as an official binding document in the EVE Universe which outlines the following

  • Payment Due Date
  • Interest Due
  • Penalties (Including an Increased Interest Amount should the Payment Date be missed)
  • Rights of the Borrower
  • Rights of the Lender
  • Debt Collection Fees/Services
  • Default and Collateral


My fee would be simple and small which would be 0.1% of the principal amount of the loan.
I.E 20,000,000 ISK loan = 20,000 ISK to create and issue the document.

This document would be given to the Lender. The Lender can then EVE MAIL the legally binding document to the borrower.
To Agree to the Conditions and execute the transaction the borrower will reply with "“I, ____ acknowledge and agree to the terms and conditions held within this note, in its entirety, of my own free will.”"

Once they respond with that the document is then considered e-signed and in effect. The Loan Transaction is then executed.

If you guys are interested you can EVE-Mail me in game, or message me on the forum.
Please give your opinions on this in this post as well if you wish (I am prepared to get slaughtered :P)
Razor Rocker
Super Mother Fan Club
#2 - 2013-01-25 14:56:13 UTC
how is it legally binding?
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
#3 - 2013-01-25 15:01:01 UTC
Well, since loans, bonds and all those IPOs are imaginary and just a fancy way to say "Could you please lend me some ingame cash" THIS is just another way to make it even fancier :-)

[b]DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy[/b]
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-01-25 15:56:30 UTC
True
However should someone fail to pay and go into default the promissory note does specify the borrower is liable for all expenses used to obtain the debt. So if someone fails to pay and you pay a large sum to a group of mercs to harass the borrower into paying the borrower has to pay both your debt and their fees
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-01-25 15:58:15 UTC
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
True
However should someone fail to pay and go into default the promissory note does specify the borrower is liable for all expenses used to obtain the debt. So if someone fails to pay and you pay a large sum to a group of mercs to harass the borrower into paying the borrower has to pay both your debt and their fees


make sure those mercs sign a promissory note so when they fail to deliver you can hire some other mercs to harass those mercs into harassing the borrower and they have to pay the other mercs fees.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-01-25 16:08:41 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
True
However should someone fail to pay and go into default the promissory note does specify the borrower is liable for all expenses used to obtain the debt. So if someone fails to pay and you pay a large sum to a group of mercs to harass the borrower into paying the borrower has to pay both your debt and their fees


make sure those mercs sign a promissory note so when they fail to deliver you can hire some other mercs to harass those mercs into harassing the borrower and they have to pay the other mercs fees.


Exactly :)
The note also does cover event such as collateral and etc. so if you decide to not use mercs and wish to have an addendum included within the note with an item as collateral you can claim the collateral
You may even claim that and chase them for money as it entails
As the lender you have a lot of rights within these notes and I can fine tune them to your specific wants and needs per the transaction
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#7 - 2013-01-25 16:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Grison
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Hey guys,

I have an idea, and will be executing this, line of service to assist those who will be Lending money in loan agreements.
I work with Real Estate out of pod, and feel that my services can be of use in the lending of ISK in the EVE Universe.

My goal is to be a servicer to create Promissory Notes and Collateral Agreement documents for Lenders to use as an official binding document in the EVE Universe which outlines the following

  • Payment Due Date
  • Interest Due
  • Penalties (Including an Increased Interest Amount should the Payment Date be missed)
  • Rights of the Borrower
  • Rights of the Lender
  • Debt Collection Fees/Services
  • Default and Collateral


My fee would be simple and small which would be 0.1% of the principal amount of the loan.
I.E 20,000,000 ISK loan = 20,000 ISK to create and issue the document.

This document would be given to the Lender. The Lender can then EVE MAIL the legally binding document to the borrower.
To Agree to the Conditions and execute the transaction the borrower will reply with "“I, ____ acknowledge and agree to the terms and conditions held within this note, in its entirety, of my own free will.”"

Once they respond with that the document is then considered e-signed and in effect. The Loan Transaction is then executed.

If you guys are interested you can EVE-Mail me in game, or message me on the forum.
Please give your opinions on this in this post as well if you wish (I am prepared to get slaughtered :P)


This is absolute nonsense, for a few reasons

1) while any signed contract may technically be legally binding. Do you really think that anyone is going to file a lawsuit IRL and incur who-knows-how-much in legal fees over an eve contract? This would be the only way to enforce such a legally binding contract
1a) the case would most likely get thrown out. as assets in eve have no legally recognized monetary value. Thus it could not be established that there were any monetary damages. In addition you do not own any of your assets in eve.
Quote:

B. Rights to Certain Content

You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.


2) Anonymity. Lets say that you got really really mad and wanted to teach someone a lesson not to mess with you over internet spaceships. Who do you sue? You won't know who the other person is IRL. CCP would not disclose this information because It is just a civil lawsuit, and not a criminal investigation.

So you would be charging for a service that would do nothing. and offer no additional safety.

yes
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-01-25 17:09:36 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Hey guys,

I have an idea, and will be executing this, line of service to assist those who will be Lending money in loan agreements.
I work with Real Estate out of pod, and feel that my services can be of use in the lending of ISK in the EVE Universe.

My goal is to be a servicer to create Promissory Notes and Collateral Agreement documents for Lenders to use as an official binding document in the EVE Universe which outlines the following

  • Payment Due Date
  • Interest Due
  • Penalties (Including an Increased Interest Amount should the Payment Date be missed)
  • Rights of the Borrower
  • Rights of the Lender
  • Debt Collection Fees/Services
  • Default and Collateral


My fee would be simple and small which would be 0.1% of the principal amount of the loan.
I.E 20,000,000 ISK loan = 20,000 ISK to create and issue the document.

This document would be given to the Lender. The Lender can then EVE MAIL the legally binding document to the borrower.
To Agree to the Conditions and execute the transaction the borrower will reply with "“I, ____ acknowledge and agree to the terms and conditions held within this note, in its entirety, of my own free will.”"

Once they respond with that the document is then considered e-signed and in effect. The Loan Transaction is then executed.

If you guys are interested you can EVE-Mail me in game, or message me on the forum.
Please give your opinions on this in this post as well if you wish (I am prepared to get slaughtered :P)


This is absolute nonsense, for a few reasons

1) while any signed contract may technically be legally binding. Do you really think that anyone is going to file a lawsuit IRL and incur who-knows-how-much in legal fees over an eve contract? This would be the only way to enforce such a legally binding contract
1a) the case would most likely get thrown out. as assets in eve have no legally recognized monetary value. Thus it could not be established that there were any monetary damages. In addition you do not own any of your assets in eve.
Quote:

B. Rights to Certain Content

You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.


2) Anonymity. Lets say that you got really really mad and wanted to teach someone a lesson not to mess with you over internet spaceships. Who do you sue? You won't know who the other person is IRL. CCP would not disclose this information because It is just a civil lawsuit, and not a criminal investigation.

So you would be charging for a service that would do nothing. and offer no additional safety.


It's not really meant to IRL sue someone but rather to seal a deal with an official contract that expresses the ins and outs of your loan so that way it expresses the guidelines in a more professional manner than just "hey need a loan? Ok"
And that's it
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#9 - 2013-01-25 17:12:52 UTC
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Hey guys,

I have an idea, and will be executing this, line of service to assist those who will be Lending money in loan agreements.
I work with Real Estate out of pod, and feel that my services can be of use in the lending of ISK in the EVE Universe.

My goal is to be a servicer to create Promissory Notes and Collateral Agreement documents for Lenders to use as an official binding document in the EVE Universe which outlines the following

  • Payment Due Date
  • Interest Due
  • Penalties (Including an Increased Interest Amount should the Payment Date be missed)
  • Rights of the Borrower
  • Rights of the Lender
  • Debt Collection Fees/Services
  • Default and Collateral


My fee would be simple and small which would be 0.1% of the principal amount of the loan.
I.E 20,000,000 ISK loan = 20,000 ISK to create and issue the document.

This document would be given to the Lender. The Lender can then EVE MAIL the legally binding document to the borrower.
To Agree to the Conditions and execute the transaction the borrower will reply with "“I, ____ acknowledge and agree to the terms and conditions held within this note, in its entirety, of my own free will.”"

Once they respond with that the document is then considered e-signed and in effect. The Loan Transaction is then executed.

If you guys are interested you can EVE-Mail me in game, or message me on the forum.
Please give your opinions on this in this post as well if you wish (I am prepared to get slaughtered :P)


This is absolute nonsense, for a few reasons

1) while any signed contract may technically be legally binding. Do you really think that anyone is going to file a lawsuit IRL and incur who-knows-how-much in legal fees over an eve contract? This would be the only way to enforce such a legally binding contract
1a) the case would most likely get thrown out. as assets in eve have no legally recognized monetary value. Thus it could not be established that there were any monetary damages. In addition you do not own any of your assets in eve.
Quote:

B. Rights to Certain Content

You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.


2) Anonymity. Lets say that you got really really mad and wanted to teach someone a lesson not to mess with you over internet spaceships. Who do you sue? You won't know who the other person is IRL. CCP would not disclose this information because It is just a civil lawsuit, and not a criminal investigation.

So you would be charging for a service that would do nothing. and offer no additional safety.


It's not really meant to IRL sue someone but rather to seal a deal with an official contract that expresses the ins and outs of your loan so that way it expresses the guidelines in a more professional manner than just "hey need a loan? Ok"
And that's it


Terribly sorry, but "sealing the deal" like that still means nothing. If people want to "seal the deal" they can send a simple mail themselves

Person A: "You will pay me 1,000,000,000 and I will pay you back over the course of 5 weeks with an interest rate of 5%. Correct?"

Person B: "Yes"

You mentioning that the contract is "legally binding" is just fluff to make the service seem worth more than it actually is.

yes
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-25 17:19:34 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Hey guys,

I have an idea, and will be executing this, line of service to assist those who will be Lending money in loan agreements.
I work with Real Estate out of pod, and feel that my services can be of use in the lending of ISK in the EVE Universe.

My goal is to be a servicer to create Promissory Notes and Collateral Agreement documents for Lenders to use as an official binding document in the EVE Universe which outlines the following

  • Payment Due Date
  • Interest Due
  • Penalties (Including an Increased Interest Amount should the Payment Date be missed)
  • Rights of the Borrower
  • Rights of the Lender
  • Debt Collection Fees/Services
  • Default and Collateral


My fee would be simple and small which would be 0.1% of the principal amount of the loan.
I.E 20,000,000 ISK loan = 20,000 ISK to create and issue the document.

This document would be given to the Lender. The Lender can then EVE MAIL the legally binding document to the borrower.
To Agree to the Conditions and execute the transaction the borrower will reply with "“I, ____ acknowledge and agree to the terms and conditions held within this note, in its entirety, of my own free will.”"

Once they respond with that the document is then considered e-signed and in effect. The Loan Transaction is then executed.

If you guys are interested you can EVE-Mail me in game, or message me on the forum.
Please give your opinions on this in this post as well if you wish (I am prepared to get slaughtered :P)


This is absolute nonsense, for a few reasons

1) while any signed contract may technically be legally binding. Do you really think that anyone is going to file a lawsuit IRL and incur who-knows-how-much in legal fees over an eve contract? This would be the only way to enforce such a legally binding contract
1a) the case would most likely get thrown out. as assets in eve have no legally recognized monetary value. Thus it could not be established that there were any monetary damages. In addition you do not own any of your assets in eve.
Quote:

B. Rights to Certain Content

You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.


2) Anonymity. Lets say that you got really really mad and wanted to teach someone a lesson not to mess with you over internet spaceships. Who do you sue? You won't know who the other person is IRL. CCP would not disclose this information because It is just a civil lawsuit, and not a criminal investigation.

So you would be charging for a service that would do nothing. and offer no additional safety.


It's not really meant to IRL sue someone but rather to seal a deal with an official contract that expresses the ins and outs of your loan so that way it expresses the guidelines in a more professional manner than just "hey need a loan? Ok"
And that's it


Terribly sorry, but "sealing the deal" like that still means nothing. If people want to "seal the deal" they can send a simple mail themselves

Person A: "You will pay me 1,000,000,000 and I will pay you back over the course of 5 weeks with an interest rate of 5%. Correct?"

Person B: "Yes"

You mentioning that the contract is "legally binding" is just fluff to make the service seem worth more than it actually is.



Ok if you feel that way
However I do express more complexities in the note such as an increase in interest rate as a penalty to being late on a payment
If you want to just do that your way go ahead but my services can help out with expressing complex guidelines
If you don't want this service then go ahead do loans your own way, but for people that want more complexities then they can use my services
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#11 - 2013-01-25 17:21:06 UTC
I don't do loans/stock/etc

who enforces these complex guidelines?

yes
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-01-25 17:22:56 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
I don't do loans/stock/etc

who enforces these complex guidelines?


Up to the lender
My note service sets the rules in an expressive terminology while if the lender wishes for someone to pursue a defaulting borrower they can hire their own services and charge the borrower
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#13 - 2013-01-25 17:41:34 UTC
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
I don't do loans/stock/etc

who enforces these complex guidelines?


Up to the lender
My note service sets the rules in an expressive terminology while if the lender wishes for someone to pursue a defaulting borrower they can hire their own services and charge the borrower


How could someone "charge" the borrower?

yes
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-01-25 17:50:11 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
I don't do loans/stock/etc

who enforces these complex guidelines?


Up to the lender
My note service sets the rules in an expressive terminology while if the lender wishes for someone to pursue a defaulting borrower they can hire their own services and charge the borrower


How could someone "charge" the borrower?

Lets say someone owes 800 million and it costs 100 million for the mercenaries you send after them
When the mercenaries keep harassing them into submission they now owe 900 instead of 800
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
#15 - 2013-01-25 18:01:52 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
I don't do loans/stock/etc

Too poor? Lol

As I said previously. It's meant to make shiny loans and bonds more shiny.
If people take time to structure their loans and payback with more than "Give me 100 and I'll return 150 on monday" then they may like this additional "attorney" stuff.
As to price-rate on this stuff, I'd say make a fixed price. And for a starter, make it free for people to get a hang of it.
Don't make it free for Alex though, he doesn't do loans/stocks/etc. You know, he's a vending machine Lol

[b]DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy[/b]
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#16 - 2013-01-25 18:29:49 UTC
Claire Coffee wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
I don't do loans/stock/etc

Too poor? Lol

As I said previously. It's meant to make shiny loans and bonds more shiny.
If people take time to structure their loans and payback with more than "Give me 100 and I'll return 150 on monday" then they may like this additional "attorney" stuff.
As to price-rate on this stuff, I'd say make a fixed price. And for a starter, make it free for people to get a hang of it.
Don't make it free for Alex though, he doesn't do loans/stocks/etc. You know, he's a vending machine Lol


PLEASE MAKE A SELECTION

yes
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-01-25 18:36:57 UTC
I can always do get your first one free :) ill do that
Get your first loan note free and then after that its 0.1%
Not 1% but 0.1% as that's a really small fee to make it more organized
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Archer Investments Initiative
#18 - 2013-01-25 19:07:11 UTC
I'm really not sure what your goal is in creating this service. The only type of loan "enforcement" mechanism within EVE Bonds/IPO's/ETC are if they are collateralized with some sort of tangible commodity. This service is either a way to generate incredibly inconsequential amounts of ISK for typing up some fancy pieces of space law paperwork or a poorly executed plan to become a community-recognized 3rd party offering some type of holding service.

MD is a pretty cruel beast as you've already discovered and you need to offer some sort of service that the community actually needs or wants rather than something that sounds fancy and yet has no substance.
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#19 - 2013-01-25 19:24:06 UTC
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
Kazuma Gaterau wrote:
Alex Grison wrote:
I don't do loans/stock/etc

who enforces these complex guidelines?


Up to the lender
My note service sets the rules in an expressive terminology while if the lender wishes for someone to pursue a defaulting borrower they can hire their own services and charge the borrower


How could someone "charge" the borrower?

Lets say someone owes 800 million and it costs 100 million for the mercenaries you send after them
When the mercenaries keep harassing them into submission they now owe 900 instead of 800


And how do you plan on collecting 900,000,000 from a throwaway, permadocked alt?

yes
Kazuma Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-01-25 19:30:15 UTC
Pretty much the point of this service is to provide excellent documentation of loans and to exhibit the conditions the lender wishes for. I am not offering to be a debt collector. I am offering for a very small fee to establish an more professional form of accepting and documenting loans
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