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Where will Minmatar Frigate going ?
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Sylphys
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-25 06:58:43 UTC
Minmatar ships are famous for fast speed
I `d lost 9 slashers ,2 Jaguar.X

Orbit 7km while flying slasher,but I find that cannot beat target all the time
If get any closer, I allways be killed soon.

weak DPS Weak defense
I feel terrible

!!!
Valatie
Void Lurkers
#2 - 2013-01-25 07:30:46 UTC
It would help if you provided the fit you're trying to use for the ships.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-01-25 10:04:17 UTC
Sylphys wrote:
I find that cannot beat target all the time


If you mean "hit the target", please check the range of your equipped weapons, and factor in additional stuff like tracking speed, transversal speed (both yours and your target's) and your own skills.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#4 - 2013-01-25 10:11:26 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:
Sylphys wrote:
I find that cannot beat target all the time


If you mean "hit the target", please check the range of your equipped weapons, and factor in additional stuff like tracking speed, transversal speed (both yours and your target's) and your own skills.




Although this seems to have broken enough English to be a troll... he is right. Minmatar frigates are awful. I haven't flown the breacher yet but i can confirm the slasher is terrible, as is the rifter. Incursus tanks 170dps sustained with dual reps and pumps out about 150 DPS depending on ammo/skills/drone/heat. No minmatar frigate comes close to that. The merlin can tank massively and brawl really well too.

Incursus needed a slight buff and instead got made OP (the old electron + ion + neutron setup was amazing). Merlin was already the best brawler in the game (but few people outside RvB knew how to fit it properly) and they buffed it again anyway. Rifter was excellent but NOT unbeatable - merlin could beat it, TE incursus also. Now it's not worth flying over almost any other frigate.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-25 10:14:08 UTC
stick a tracking disruptor on there

No Worries
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#6 - 2013-01-25 10:19:21 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:
Sylphys wrote:
I find that cannot beat target all the time


If you mean "hit the target", please check the range of your equipped weapons, and factor in additional stuff like tracking speed, transversal speed (both yours and your target's) and your own skills.




Although this seems to have broken enough English to be a troll... he is right. Minmatar frigates are awful. I haven't flown the breacher yet but i can confirm the slasher is terrible, as is the rifter. Incursus tanks 170dps sustained with dual reps and pumps out about 150 DPS depending on ammo/skills/drone/heat. No minmatar frigate comes close to that. The merlin can tank massively and brawl really well too.

Incursus needed a slight buff and instead got made OP (the old electron + ion + neutron setup was amazing). Merlin was already the best brawler in the game (but few people outside RvB knew how to fit it properly) and they buffed it again anyway. Rifter was excellent but NOT unbeatable - merlin could beat it, TE incursus also. Now it's not worth flying over almost any other frigate.

If you are fighting against an incursus or a merlin at brawl range with a rifter / slasher, you are doing wrong.

Just saying...
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-01-25 10:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Halete
There tends to be this stipulation that Minmatar have the best Frigates - stemming from their speed, Lore, and alarmingly few people being able to fly the already-great Incursus or Merlin pre-buffs because everyone spent years getting "learn to PvP in a Rifter!" shoved in their face.

There also tends also to be this stipulation that Caldari can't into PvP - which hasn't been true for years.

Truth is, Caldari Frigates are probably the most well-rounded right now; Condors are excellent to apply damage whilst kiting and e-warring, or just for being there to hold point for heavier tackle. The Merlin is a fantastic brawler and Caldari have two of the best AFs alongside the Enyo and Vengeance (whilst the Minmatar AFs are notoriously under-par). The Manticore is a fantastic fleet bomber, whilst the Griffin is a staple ship in a lot of small-gang engagements especially in FW where it shines for it's support. They also (lol) have a functional EAS. Rockets and Hybrids are exceptionally strong 'small' weapon systems right now.

The Minmatar frigates are just OK right now - I'm not clued in on the Breacher but the Slasher and Rifter tend to tank worse and project worse damage than the other race's counterparts. They're Jack-of-all-Trade ships, which tends to be great for learning, but it's almost universally better to play to strengths rather than being prepared to do everything. This said, I think they're still pretty fuckin' sweet when applied with a pilot who knows what they're doing, but require actual thought.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#8 - 2013-01-25 11:14:52 UTC
Tbh the slashers pretty damn decent. Irc it has the fastest AB speed of any t1 frig. Running a fit like this one:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/62801-Slasher-The-Little-Ship-That-Could.html
AB+TD+Scram+ASB

Will allow you to engage many of the "in" ships right now.

Take the incursus for example, your AB speed/Agillity + Td will set his dps to near 0. He'll eventually run out of cargo space for cap boosters + your neut will turn his tank off after some minutes. Absorb any initial damage by ASB (unnecessary in many fights). Similar tactics can be applied to a brawler merlin.

The only ships in the t1 lineup I would rate (just my opinion) as straight up better than a slasher is the condor. But the slasher can dictate engagement/not engage at all against said condor so it's a non-issue really.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-25 11:31:12 UTC
Bracher is nice aswell.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-01-25 11:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Halete
The webbing ASB Slasher dies to kiters,

The TDing ASB Slasher dies to rocket and missile kiters, as well as anything with a web and some other brawlers,

The plate buffer, webbing and TDing Slasher is a fun gimmick, but it has it's own issues and other ships do it better.

The dual-repping Incursus is a fun gimmick, but it's still a gimmick. A lot of things will beat it with proper tactics, even more things will be able to turn and escape from it.

Mind you, none of these examples take pilot skill (SP and real skill) disparity into account. You can win your bad match-ups in a Slasher if you know what you're doing, otherwise avoid these fights and you're golden.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#11 - 2013-01-25 12:30:39 UTC
Halete wrote:
The webbing ASB Slasher dies to kiters,

The TDing ASB Slasher dies to rocket and missile kiters, as well as anything with a web and some other brawlers,

The plate buffer, webbing and TDing Slasher is a fun gimmick, but it has it's own issues and other ships do it better.

The dual-repping Incursus is a fun gimmick, but it's still a gimmick. A lot of things will beat it with proper tactics, even more things will be able to turn and escape from it.

Mind you, none of these examples take pilot skill (SP and real skill) disparity into account. You can win your bad match-ups in a Slasher if you know what you're doing, otherwise avoid these fights and you're golden.

I'd disagree with the bolded point. Missiles, from say a condor, do 40-50 real applied dps to a ship going +1500m/s at 40m signature (e.g. the slasher fit I linked, plug it into eft). The ASB slasher can honestly tank that for a really, really long time.

More to the point, said condor is most likely not cap stable with the mwd, the slasher is cap stable. Given that the condor has to stay within point range but out of scram range for missile kiting, this presents a very serious problem. If you pulse the mwd either in pursuit or attempt to kite, you present the slasher with the opportunity to either overheat and turn on you or overheat and burn out respectively.

Not saying it doesn't have issues, but I wouldn't sell the slasher short.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#12 - 2013-01-25 16:22:56 UTC
Web and especially bonused or dual web is the dead of every short-ranged nano ship. Unfortunatelly there is no way to counter them except from staying outside web range and mabye use ECM on the enemy.

What I want to say is: I am currently a bit pessimistic with regards to Minmatar frigates and the direction they go for. Caldari with their many medium slots are currently much more flexible and useful than minmatar ones due to their space for e-war. The speed benefit of minmatar frigates is just too low to compensate for their lower damage, lower-tank and less e-war.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2013-01-25 16:27:31 UTC
Slasher can be great as a 1v1 ship..

Breacher is just all around great..

Rifter is **** though.



You're prolly doing it wrong?

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