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Scamming new players.
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NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#141 - 2013-01-25 00:36:21 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Simple fix:

WARNING: PLEX can be scammed, stolen, or destroyed the same as every other in-game item. CCP advises that you take the time to understand how the market works prior to redeeming and selling PLEX.

I like this idea.
Add it into the plex info description and thus you make it better.
Much like the safety button.
Jita iswhereIsit
Doomheim
#142 - 2013-01-25 00:44:14 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Simple fix:

WARNING: PLEX can be scammed, stolen, or destroyed the same as every other in-game item. CCP advises that you take the time to understand how the market works prior to redeeming and selling PLEX.

I like this idea.
Add it into the plex info description and thus you make it better.
Much like the safety button.

Should they do it for all items too?
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#143 - 2013-01-25 00:57:52 UTC
Jita iswhereIsit wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Simple fix:

WARNING: PLEX can be scammed, stolen, or destroyed the same as every other in-game item. CCP advises that you take the time to understand how the market works prior to redeeming and selling PLEX.

I like this idea.
Add it into the plex info description and thus you make it better.
Much like the safety button.

Should they do it for all items too?


No, the problem is with PLEX. It is a problem because it puts too much value into a package that is too vulnerable.

Scammers don't add content like kids flying around in fat ships. They discourage people from interacting with the game and discourage people from buying more PLEX. That kids mom will prolly not buy him another one, she will spend her money on something that is of more well defined value and not lost so quickly.

People like Solstice Project create interesting content, they steal and loot and burn spaceships. So that industrialists can make more ships etc.

The scammer has prolly already redeemed that timecode. No in game movement at all, a few clicks and then back to spamming scam posts all over local.




Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#144 - 2013-01-25 00:58:02 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Simple fix:

WARNING: PLEX can be scammed, stolen, or destroyed the same as every other in-game item. CCP advises that you take the time to understand how the market works prior to redeeming and selling PLEX.


This needs to be accompanied by a description of the more common scamming techniques:

  1. Just trade me in station, I'll send you the ISK
  2. Create a contract, I'll send you the ISK
  3. Sell it to my contract for PLEX, I'll pay 700M ISK (contract is for 2 x PLEX)


And of course a link to the scams/exploits page: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scam

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#145 - 2013-01-25 01:04:42 UTC
Roll
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#146 - 2013-01-25 01:22:21 UTC
CCP allows all scamming minus character bazaar. They don't care if your a new player, if its done in public or private. Expensive lesson in scams.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#147 - 2013-01-25 02:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
bongsmoke wrote:
CCP allows all scamming minus character bazaar. They don't care if your a new player, if its done in public or private. Expensive lesson in scams.


I wonder why they regulate the bazaar?

They also don't allow other players to hack into your credit card, or to threaten someone with RL violence. There is no reason for PLEX to be an in game item. There are plenty of opportunities to scam, defraud, and destroy that add to game content.

PLEX stealing doesn't add anything that isn't available somewhere else in game and in a format that is less harmful to new players.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#148 - 2013-01-25 02:32:23 UTC
Here is a good one.
The time code bazaar exists on forums and is regulated.
Why not ditch plex as a game item and just have people go there?
Or am I missing something important about the difference between an ETC and a plex?

Also the difference between plex and other scams is that PLEX uses real monies, where as the other items are pixels.

I do think PLEX should remain ingame as a method of changing RL money for ISK, but I feel that the predation on the young is detrimental to EVE as a game an institution and CCP as a company.
Much as greifing in newbie systems is prohibited I feel that such rules should expand to scamming of PLEX.
Loss of plex through war and loot drop is fine.
Taking it from older players who are less likely to stop playing and instead disuade others from playing is good.
The newbs are the future blood of EVE and CCP and must be thought of as such.
Thus I propose that PLEX should be impossible to place in the trade window.
This would still allow scamming but would prevent the type of issues shown.
Much like how the new crimewatch (with shortly to be released duel) has still allowed can flipping and other such leet pvp, but has removed the unaware exploit factor while still preserving ignorance that fuels contract scamming.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#149 - 2013-01-25 02:38:15 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Andski wrote:
Scamming is allowed in this game and it hasn't hindered its growth.


There is no scientific proof on whether it does or not.

Statistically, chances are people have quit because they have been scammed, though.


"scientific proof?"

scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown

statistically, chances are people have quit because of the skill system, are you going to suggest that everyone starts out with all skills at 5?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-01-25 02:42:56 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Or am I missing something important about the difference between an ETC and a plex?


An ETC can only be traded from the person who purchased it from an authorized ETC vendor to the person who will use it for game time. PLEX can be changed between no end of hands.

NEONOVUS wrote:
Also the difference between plex and other scams is that PLEX uses real monies, where as the other items are pixels.


No, if I scam you out of a PLEX I scam you out of a PLEX, not whatever you paid for it. I can't redeem a PLEX for RL money.

NEONOVUS wrote:
I do think PLEX should remain ingame as a method of changing RL money for ISK, but I feel that the predation on the young is detrimental to EVE as a game an institution and CCP as a company.


The "young?" New players aren't children.

NEONOVUS wrote:
Much as greifing in newbie systems is prohibited I feel that such rules should expand to scamming of PLEX.


No, it should not.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#151 - 2013-01-25 02:48:48 UTC
Andski wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Andski wrote:
Scamming is allowed in this game and it hasn't hindered its growth.


There is no scientific proof on whether it does or not.

Statistically, chances are people have quit because they have been scammed, though.


"scientific proof?"

scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown

statistically, chances are people have quit because of the skill system, are you going to suggest that everyone starts out with all skills at 5?

He didn't say "scientific proof" indicates one thing or the other. He said that "statistically" people don't continue to do business with the same entity that scammed them. IDK if thats true or not. I bet it is.

"scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown" Growth of the game in no way proves that certain aspects of the game haven't held it back.

Your post is horrible. Misquotes and bad logic. I'm surprised.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#152 - 2013-01-25 02:54:07 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
He didn't say "scientific proof" indicates one thing or the other. He said that "statistically" people don't continue to do business with the same entity that scammed them. IDK if thats true or not. I bet it is.

"scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown" Growth of the game in no way proves that certain aspects of the game haven't held it back.

Your post is horrible. Misquotes and bad logic. I'm surprised.


Held it back from what? This game has been active for close to 10 years with no decline, and EVE has 450,000+ subscribers between Tranquility and Serenity. I'd call that a success.

You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to see that a contract asking for 2 PLEX in exchange for 600M is a scam when 1 PLEX costs 550M. You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to figure out that the market is where the majority of stuff in the game is purchased, considering that the goddamn tutorials teach you how to use it, how to use contracts and have absolutely nothing on the trade window.

There's a huge difference between being a newbie and an idiot. I'm sorry if you thought EVE was a themepark wonderland where the developers hold your hand at every turn so that you don't fall over and bruise your knee, but that isn't what this game is about.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#153 - 2013-01-25 02:54:58 UTC
Andski wrote:


NEONOVUS wrote:
Much as greifing in newbie systems is prohibited I feel that such rules should expand to scamming of PLEX.


No, it should not.


He voiced an opinion along with some supporting observations. Among them the idea that CCP does consider new players differently, in that it is not permitted to smash them up too badly in the starter systems.

That rule hasn't destroyed content, or made Eve dull and easy. There is no reason not to expand it to PLEX. despite your personal objections.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#154 - 2013-01-25 02:57:58 UTC
CCP, I would just like to say that I'm quite pleased with the current PLEX system, and feel that it's working as intended. :)

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#155 - 2013-01-25 03:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Andski wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
He didn't say "scientific proof" indicates one thing or the other. He said that "statistically" people don't continue to do business with the same entity that scammed them. IDK if thats true or not. I bet it is.

"scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown" Growth of the game in no way proves that certain aspects of the game haven't held it back.

Your post is horrible. Misquotes and bad logic. I'm surprised.


Held it back from what? This game has been active for close to 10 years with no decline, and EVE has 450,000+ subscribers between Tranquility and Serenity. I'd call that a success.

You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to see that a contract asking for 2 PLEX in exchange for 600M is a scam when 1 PLEX costs 550M. You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to figure out that the market is where the majority of stuff in the game is purchased, considering that the goddamn tutorials teach you how to use it, how to use contracts and have absolutely nothing on the trade window.

There's a huge difference between being a newbie and an idiot. I'm sorry if you thought EVE was a themepark wonderland where the developers hold your hand at every turn so that you don't fall over and bruise your knee, but that isn't what this game is about.


You exaggerate about the effect that removing PLEX would have. It will not be like a wonderland. It will still be Eve, except there will be a few more kids that get involved.

You have no proof that PLEX as an in game item and the scams that it encourages help to make Eve a great place. Many posters on this thread have claimed that Eve is not dead yet, and offer that as proof that no changes should be made. Then complain vociferously about something CCP screwed up somewhere else. There is always something that can be improved and made better, something that will bring in more customers.

We most likely lost one today because of a PLEX scam. Would that kid have been the best Eve player? who knows what he would have been. But even if he wants roller coasters and cotton candy Eve is a big enough place to accommodate that while still having room for a darker more sinister game. That is the magic of the sandbox.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#156 - 2013-01-25 03:07:10 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
That rule hasn't destroyed content, or made Eve dull and easy. There is no reason not to expand it to PLEX. despite your personal objections.


okay let's see here

1) new players aren't the only ones who buy PLEX
2) there is no way to tell who is a "new player" and an alt of a guy playing since 2003 and I doubt the "ban first, ask questions later" GMs go off checking that
3) every rule meant to protect "new players" has always ended up protecting older players, e.g. the recruitment channel rule which was, according to GMs, meant to "protect new players" while people were getting negwalleted for scamming 2006 idiots
4) considering that a newbie can buy a pile of PLEX and use that to buy a character off the market, that creates even more ambiguity

so yeah your idea is terrible, just learn how to use the market and stop asking CCP to hold your hand, don't worry, the rest of us managed to get through the darkness

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#157 - 2013-01-25 03:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
You exaggerate about the effect that removing PLEX would have. It will not be like a wonderland. It will still be Eve, except there will be a few more kids that get involved.


Well damn son we might as well add mounts, /salutes and dances so we can get all of the kids playing EVE Online because CCP CLEARLY INTENDED EVE ONLINE TO BE A CHILDREN'S GAME RIGHT?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#158 - 2013-01-25 03:10:59 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


He did get the thing that she bought though, he just gave it away to someone.

You and I both know that.

But what do you think he's going to tell mommy?


That's irrelevant to the fact that he paid money for a PLEX & received a PLEX. If she decides to do a chargeback CCP are able to dispute it & will end up getting the money back because they delivered exactly what was paid for, leaving her with additional charges to pay the bank afterwards.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#159 - 2013-01-25 03:11:37 UTC
Andski wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
That rule hasn't destroyed content, or made Eve dull and easy. There is no reason not to expand it to PLEX. despite your personal objections.


okay let's see here

1) new players aren't the only ones who buy PLEX
2) there is no way to tell who is a "new player" and an alt of a guy playing since 2003 and I doubt the "ban first, ask questions later" GMs go off checking that
3) every rule meant to protect "new players" has always ended up protecting older players, e.g. the recruitment channel rule which was, according to GMs, meant to "protect new players" while people were getting negwalleted for scamming 2006 idiots
4) considering that a newbie can buy a pile of PLEX and use that to buy a character off the market, that creates even more ambiguity

so yeah your idea is terrible, just learn how to use the market and stop asking CCP to hold your hand, don't worry, the rest of us managed to get through the darkness

You keep trying to make this about me wanting CCP to hold my hand and I don't know why. Is it because you had it tough and made it through a tough initiation that you think its now your turn to initiate someone, your turn to sit back and laugh while someone gets hammered like you perhaps did?

Most organizations are doing away with hazing for just this reason.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#160 - 2013-01-25 03:15:14 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
If CCP enbedded ID codes on all PLEX and spent some time baiting such scammers then Eve would be a better place with more new subscribers.


They would have to pay people to do this, making it a colossal waste of money.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.