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Evelopedia is in serious need of more editors.
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Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-25 00:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Wescro
Despite being the "official" wiki of EVE, I usually don't even bother to look up things on "Evelopedia" due to its generally poor quality (honest truth). Even when not trying to actively use it to research, I have come across incorrect item graphics, missing pages, and redundant pages.

Then there is this, the poorly written and amazingly pro-carebear biased entry on griefing.

Quote:
In general, "griefing" is a term that means action against another player that makes the target feel like being targeted on purpose or for the sake of harassment only.


That's right. It has to be "accidental targeting" for it to not be griefing. No self-respecting e-honorable spaceship captain PURPOSEFULLY locks his fellow pilots. Only a griefer would purposefully target a player! Perhaps CCP should update the combat UI to hide the targetting button, to reduce such griefing. We don't want accidents, do we?

Quote:
a popular practice griefing miners, which are several days in the same System or easy to find with locator service agents. The agressors will try to kill a exhumer with a group of cheap ships, and afterwards extort money from the victim allowing him to mine unmolested again.


Bad grammar may be excusable, but the above statement is just factually incorrect. Griefing is a violation of the EULA. CCP has never determined ganking and so-called "extortion" to be griefing. In fact, the support website directly contradicts this by saying

Quote:
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way.


Extortion can not be griefing since it does profit the extortionist.

It's troubling that biased and factually incorrect entries are being posted on the official EVE wiki. The wiki should not be a personal soapbox for people to broadcast their opinions as official EVE gospel. To that end I wish to start a discussion on how to clean up this mess and get more active and neutral editors/content-moderators to contribute to the wiki.

http://crossingzebras.com/2013/02/17/csm8ripardteg/
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2013-01-25 00:21:08 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-01-25 00:26:20 UTC
evelopedia has other problems like the entirety of its item database being years out of date and item database formatting in general

this problem can be fixed by you hitting the edit tool
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#4 - 2013-01-25 00:26:32 UTC
Something tells me you believe you have been griefed....and wanted to see if it was true.....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Fanatic Row
Neo T.E.C.H.
#5 - 2013-01-25 00:29:06 UTC
When accusing something of being biased, it suits that person not to fall into the same trap.
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-01-25 00:31:33 UTC
Fanatic Row wrote:
When accusing something of being biased, it suits that person not to fall into the same trap.


The opinions presented on the wiki are biased to the extent of contradicting the more official source. Clearly a bias in favor of the official position is preferable.

http://crossingzebras.com/2013/02/17/csm8ripardteg/
Cowboy Nuggets
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-01-25 00:50:34 UTC
Wescro wrote:
Fanatic Row wrote:
When accusing something of being biased, it suits that person not to fall into the same trap.


The opinions presented on the wiki are biased to the extent of contradicting the more official source. Clearly a bias in favor of the official position is preferable.


So what are you waiting for, edit it.
Whitehound
#8 - 2013-01-25 00:55:56 UTC
Once you take the safety off is nothing you do accidental.

And you do lock onto your fellow pilots to leech on the bounty.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-01-25 00:59:51 UTC
I thought about it myself rather recently.
There are a few entries that could use a complete rewrite.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#10 - 2013-01-25 01:10:16 UTC
There is a difference between targeting and targeting.

CCP does recognise griefing as persistently harassing a particular player, thus "targeting" a player. This is very different to the ingame mechanic of "targeting" a ship.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-01-25 01:15:14 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
There is a difference between targeting and targeting.

CCP does recognise griefing as persistently harassing a particular player, thus "targeting" a player. This is very different to the ingame mechanic of "targeting" a ship.

If i fell in love with your avatar and sent you ISK and a love letter every day,
containing all the pods i've killed for you, to show you my affection,
and told every single one of my victims that i did it for you and you only,
would that be considered as griefing or harrassment ?
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#12 - 2013-01-25 01:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
I'd like to hear the OPs definition of greifing. Probably something like "When a totally awesome guy kills someone who is lame and they get mad about it and report them" .

Technically griefing is anything which is done for no reason other than to cause people grief. Although CCP only takes action when it's done repeatedly to one person.

So both uses are correct.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#13 - 2013-01-25 01:33:35 UTC
Well for one I can't find any of the new sensor strength skills on there =/

Hmm....

One sec...


Nope, salvage drone operation is missing too....o wait

*facpalm*

Both the salvage drone skill and salvage drone item are IN evelopedia but neither are listed on the item data base... infact all of the following are missing:

-small and medium sized web drones
-drone damage amps
-all forms of T2 drone mods

The Drake is a Lie
Whitehound
#14 - 2013-01-25 01:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Solstice Project wrote:
If i fell in love with your avatar and sent you ISK and a love letter every day,
containing all the pods i've killed for you, to show you my affection,
and told every single one of my victims that i did it for you and you only,
would that be considered as griefing or harrassment ?

No. It would be considered as failing to block you.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-01-25 01:42:29 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
If i fell in love with your avatar and sent you ISK and a love letter every day,
containing all the pods i've killed for you, to show you my affection,
and told every single one of my victims that i did it for you and you only,
would that be considered as griefing or harrassment ?

No. It would be considered as a failure to block you.

You haven't thought this through at all.
Try to not just read things and respond immediately, but to think before you write.
You look like a man who can do that, unlike many others around here.

Now how dare i accusing you of such ?

Even if she blocked me, i'd still tell every victim that i did it for her ... and her only.

I'm sure these victims will be delighted to know that ... and will never ever ...
... NEVER EEEEEEEEVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR ...........
... contact her and unintentionally help me transport my affection towards her.

Griefing or harrassment ?
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-01-25 01:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Wescro
Bane Necran wrote:
I'd like to hear the OPs definition of greifing. Probably something like "When a totally awesome guy kills someone who is lame and they get mad about it and report them" .

Technically griefing is anything which is done for no reason other than to cause people grief. Although CCP only takes action when it's done repeatedly to one person.

So both uses are correct.


My personal opinion of what petionable griefing ought to be is independent of CCP's current policy, which is a matter of fact. The wiki wasn't just another opinion, it was redefining the word "griefing" in a way different than the official source.

Personally, if you are in grief or any other negative emotion, that's your problem. I'm not your doctor. HTFU. I am certainly not passing this opinion around as "official." Opinions have no place in an encyclopedia, only facts.

http://crossingzebras.com/2013/02/17/csm8ripardteg/
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#17 - 2013-01-25 02:05:15 UTC
Wescro wrote:
Personally, if you are in grief or any other negative emotion, that's your problem.


And that's fine as long as someone's not going around looking to cause people grief, then acting shocked when they succeed. No one believes that crap. It's what they were after in the first place.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Ckra Trald
Ckra Trald Corporation
#18 - 2013-01-25 02:10:49 UTC
Evelopedia does need a ton of updating. Recent changes in ships aren't changed, some lore is outdated, pictures pre v3 and much more.

For example the Navitas, updated in December (along with dozens of other ships) have not have had their stats or GFX updated! The only things people can change (or atleast I could find) Is the info below the raw stats. The only indication I could find that the Navitas is different is in the "Discussion" Tab, which said simply "This page is out of date... Venture is now mining frig." this is hugely flawed because new players might be completely misguided if they read about ships before entering the game.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Navitas

http://www.rusemen.com/ Join Tengoo xd
Ildryn
IDLE INTENTIONS
#19 - 2013-01-25 03:35:36 UTC
Wasn't that fail carebear, spoon throwing, nda breaking ***** working on the eve-wiki?

Anhksfkhje;glkh something or other. I wonder if she has tried to reform X-Box yet.
Whitehound
#20 - 2013-01-25 07:36:55 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
If i fell in love with your avatar and sent you ISK and a love letter every day,
containing all the pods i've killed for you, to show you my affection,
and told every single one of my victims that i did it for you and you only,
would that be considered as griefing or harrassment ?

No. It would be considered as a failure to block you.

You haven't thought this through at all.
Try to not just read things and respond immediately, but to think before you write.
You look like a man who can do that, unlike many others around here.

Now how dare i accusing you of such ?

Even if she blocked me, i'd still tell every victim that i did it for her ... and her only.

I'm sure these victims will be delighted to know that ... and will never ever ...
... NEVER EEEEEEEEVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR ...........
... contact her and unintentionally help me transport my affection towards her.

Griefing or harrassment ?

None of both. It would be ranting. Most definitely ranting. Trust me on this one, you are full of it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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