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Off grid boosting fix is like waiting for a miracle?

Author
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2013-01-24 18:22:32 UTC
Booster on grid..ok
but only if it also hits Industrial command ships!!!

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-01-24 18:23:27 UTC
Mary Won-Na wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mary Won-Na wrote:
I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.


Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.


I don't think boosting while sitting 400km away is kosher either. Boosting ships should be within target range. This would give the added benefit of harder to dual-box, which is always good in my book.

But hey, this is eve, if you want to dual-box and say you're solo, go right ahead. Just don't complain about "solo" gameplay dying out because people refuse to "1v1" you.

Target range of what?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Google Voices
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-01-24 18:32:37 UTC
When fixing your code is like hoping for a miracle, your doing it wrong.......Oops



"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle."

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#44 - 2013-01-24 18:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Which supports the point that on grid boosting by no means equals instant death.

For the argument above discussing interceptors, they completely over look the fact that whomever those interceptors are hunting are also likely to not have boosters with them in most cases... so it's pretty much a wash between both groups.

It supports the point that nerfing off-grid boosting changes less than they hope for and breaks more than they intend.

If it puts the boosting ship within viewable range to be effective, and in the general area of the conflict without necessarily being an easy kill, than that is achieving exactly what they hope for.... and I don't really see it breaking anything. At worst it puts all ships away from the main fleet on the same footing, at least until a boosting ship arrives to join them.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#45 - 2013-01-24 18:45:45 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mary Won-Na wrote:
I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.


Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.



There is no reason to think that will happen any more often than the "solo" pvpers who bring in the logistics alt or falcon alts.

Yes it happens occassionally, but its really pretty rare.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#46 - 2013-01-24 18:47:18 UTC
Mildew Wolf wrote:
imo they should at least add boosters to killmail or battle report or whatever they are called now

it would be a nice reference for intel and end the mystery of "true solo" )))



Yes boosters and logistics should be on killmails.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#47 - 2013-01-24 18:50:28 UTC
Cearain wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mary Won-Na wrote:
I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.


Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.



There is no reason to think that will happen any more often than the "solo" pvpers who bring in the logistics alt or falcon alts.

Yes it happens occassionally, but its really pretty rare.

I personally don't have any problem with a boosting ship trying it's best to sit on the far side of the grid from the enemy... it rather makes sense. At least the enemy knows what they are dealing with, and if they choose to try and drop probes to warp in on the boosting ship they have a bit easier time of it.

It will bring about (comparitive boosting strengths aside) a situation where Command Ships (set up with a heavy tank, or buffer to take advantage of a fleets logistics capability) are used primarily with big fleets, and T3 Cruisers are used more with small fast moving gangs using speed tanking and range to their advantage.

I view this as sensible and logical.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#48 - 2013-01-24 19:06:20 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mary Won-Na wrote:
I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.


Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.



There is no reason to think that will happen any more often than the "solo" pvpers who bring in the logistics alt or falcon alts.

Yes it happens occassionally, but its really pretty rare.

I personally don't have any problem with a boosting ship trying it's best to sit on the far side of the grid from the enemy... it rather makes sense. At least the enemy knows what they are dealing with, and if they choose to try and drop probes to warp in on the boosting ship they have a bit easier time of it.

It will bring about (comparitive boosting strengths aside) a situation where Command Ships (set up with a heavy tank, or buffer to take advantage of a fleets logistics capability) are used primarily with big fleets, and T3 Cruisers are used more with small fast moving gangs using speed tanking and range to their advantage.

I view this as sensible and logical.



Plus brining in a booster on grid after a fight starts does not make as much sense as bringing in a falcon or a logistics. And like I said that only happens rarely.

1) unless you happen to already have a safe you will need to bring it in at 100km warp in. Around faction war plexes even that won't work.

2) Your loki boost won't help you that much if your kite ships is already scrammed because you had trouble holding point while messing with your booster alt to warp them on grid.

3) Falcons and logistics are relatively cheap compared to command and t3.


The changes ccp discussed sound great to me.

I am just concerned with how the timeline was addressed in the minutes. They made it sound like this is not specifically assigned to be done and the likielhood of it happening is on par with the likely hood of a miracle.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-01-24 19:17:16 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
I guess that's because really, CCP are a business, and will go with the masses to create the most profit. It's a shame to wave goodbye to such an adrenaline pumping, exciting game, and welcome this "Not-so-sandbox" they're slowly creating.

And yeah, CCP have only boosted solo in 3 ways the last few years.
1. Tech 3 Cruiser Boosts
2. Ancilliary Shield Boosters
3. Making blasters good again.

For that i'm thankful, however, for what we're about to recieve, I am not.

P.S. CCP, If 1 person could change your mind, DO NOT REMOVE OFF GRID BOOSTING. You're nerfing it enough already.
P.P.S. Sorry for completely hi-jacking your thread OP.
-Buhhd


Eve Online is a MassiveMultiplayerOnline game, not Solo Tetris Online.

OGB has to go away, it's a bad mechanic and since you're talking about sandbox where is the "consequence" for the POS kissing multimillion fit/implants booster alt?
-none, you can't get retribution, he's totally safe behind the POS shields providing overpowered boosts from 1m to 285 AU large system.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#50 - 2013-01-24 19:35:37 UTC
I am sure they will get to it right after the POS revamp and WiS is complete. Lol
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#51 - 2013-01-24 19:37:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Reducing ganglink bonuses and increasing effectiveness in other ways
As I've said before, this is something we definitely want to do. Links are both too effective in their direct bonuses as well as their ability to be used off-grid. However getting this specific issue fixed is going to need to wait until after 1.1. Once we have the room to implement some changes to the way warfare links work from the ground up, expect changes to a lot of other modules and mechanics to happen at the same time.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2503173#post2503173

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

River St Clair
Doomheim
#52 - 2013-01-24 21:21:11 UTC
1. How would this impact the boosting Rorqual sitting at pos? or a boosting orca?


2. How does this affect my leadership character's skills?

I mean she is maxed out leadership, will this nerf her influence over her team? If she is boosting on skills alone.
( boosting on skills alone and not ganglinks. )
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#53 - 2013-01-24 21:26:08 UTC
No idea, but my assumption is she's getting smacked in the face with a nerf bat. Just as my loki/legion/tengu/proteus/eos/claymore/damnation/vulture pilots are.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-01-24 21:40:17 UTC
It took CCP like 2-3 years to get a nano fix in so don't hold your breath. Wouldn't be too hard to nerf t2 links + t3 link bonus slightly so links aren't that crazy while we wait for a comprehensive fix but CCP is being stubborn and lazy.

I dunno what you guys are talking about links helping solo pilots. I see blobs use links more than small gangs (blobs have more pilots so it's easier to get alts/links) and "solo" pilots using 1-2 links and destroy real solo pilots making people not want to solo because you have no chance vs a fully linked pilot.

Really, if they just took away the cov ops subsystem it would be incredibly more balanced. Without cov ops cloak I could actually catch a t3 link in low sec and he wouldn't be able to just cloak in a ss and decloak to give bonuses while being ridiculously hard to probe. I don't think I've seen a non-cov ops t3 in lowsec in years except for the rare t3 blob with 10 guardians or insta-lock t3s than run from anything larger than a frig.
Jassmin Joy
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#55 - 2013-01-24 21:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jassmin Joy
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
I guess that's because really, CCP are a business, and will go with the masses to create the most profit. It's a shame to wave goodbye to such an adrenaline pumping, exciting game, and welcome this "Not-so-sandbox" they're slowly creating.

And yeah, CCP have only boosted solo in 3 ways the last few years.
1. Tech 3 Cruiser Boosts
2. Ancilliary Shield Boosters
3. Making blasters good again.

For that i'm thankful, however, for what we're about to recieve, I am not.

P.S. CCP, If 1 person could change your mind, DO NOT REMOVE OFF GRID BOOSTING. You're nerfing it enough already.
P.P.S. Sorry for completely hi-jacking your thread OP.
-Buhhd


Eve Online is a MassiveMultiplayerOnline game, not Solo Tetris Online.

OGB has to go away, it's a bad mechanic and since you're talking about sandbox where is the "consequence" for the POS kissing multimillion fit/implants booster alt?
-none, you can't get retribution, he's totally safe behind the POS shields providing overpowered boosts from 1m to 285 AU large system.



Yes, because peeople have pos' in every system in eve.
You have an issue with an alt sitting in a pos that you cant beat? don't take the fight in that system, force them to come to you then grab stuff on the gate or in safes next door, or you could even bring your own boosts, which totally negates the pos safe ones?

While i agree that t3' boosts are OP at the moment, off grid boosting is not. It's been my general experience that the only people complaining about "off-grid" boosting are those that cant be bothered to take advantage of it themselves, or those that can't think for themselves and find a counter, off grid is a essential asset for smaller gangs to operate in this game where everything is becoming more risk adverse by the day.

t3 boosts are op, off grid is not. the amount of times i've been in fleet where i've had people warp in on my boosts, or had other fc's loose boost alts because people took the initiative and scanned them out is unreal :BP:

TL:DR. T3 boosts are op, Off grid is not. perhaps having boosts able to run behind pos shields could be removed, leaving off-grid at the mercy of probers.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2013-01-24 21:46:57 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
No idea, but my assumption is she's getting smacked in the face with a nerf bat. Just as my loki/legion/tengu/proteus/eos/claymore/damnation/vulture pilots are.

-Liang

It was my understanding that fleet command ships were getting a buff, as in getting bonuses to two types of boosts instead of one. Damnation for example would give the 3% bonus per level to armored and skirmish, Claymore to siege and skirmish, eos to information and armored, and vulture to information and siege (IIRC, the exact combinations may be different).

The T3s would get a 2% bonus per level to three types of boosts, so a Tengu could boost information, skirmish, and siege for example.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-01-24 21:58:40 UTC
Jassmin Joy wrote:
While i agree that t3' boosts are OP at the moment, off grid boosting is not. It's been my general experience that the only people complaining about "off-grid" boosting are those that cant be bothered to take advantage of it themselves, or those that can't think for themselves and find a counter, off grid is a essential asset for smaller gangs to operate in this game where everything is becoming more risk adverse by the day.


Excuse me if I still think the only risk averse is the guy not willing to commit his ship to the fight because of some very bad mechanic offering huge advantages, read all the benefits but with NO RISK.

If you're not risk averse you'll bring your boosting ship to the fight, if you're risk averse and not willing to risk loosing your boosting ship then you leave it at the station.
Battlecruisers have enough slots to fit at least one gang link, those should be used more often in gangs for links rather than neut/salvager

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-01-24 22:00:18 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
No idea, but my assumption is she's getting smacked in the face with a nerf bat. Just as my loki/legion/tengu/proteus/eos/claymore/damnation/vulture pilots are.

-Liang

It was my understanding that fleet command ships were getting a buff, as in getting bonuses to two types of boosts instead of one. Damnation for example would give the 3% bonus per level to armored and skirmish, Claymore to siege and skirmish, eos to information and armored, and vulture to information and siege (IIRC, the exact combinations may be different).

The T3s would get a 2% bonus per level to three types of boosts, so a Tengu could boost information, skirmish, and siege for example.


This is correct accordingly to latest information delivered by CCP devs

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#59 - 2013-01-24 22:21:38 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
No idea, but my assumption is she's getting smacked in the face with a nerf bat. Just as my loki/legion/tengu/proteus/eos/claymore/damnation/vulture pilots are.

-Liang

It was my understanding that fleet command ships were getting a buff, as in getting bonuses to two types of boosts instead of one. Damnation for example would give the 3% bonus per level to armored and skirmish, Claymore to siege and skirmish, eos to information and armored, and vulture to information and siege (IIRC, the exact combinations may be different).

The T3s would get a 2% bonus per level to three types of boosts, so a Tengu could boost information, skirmish, and siege for example.


This is correct accordingly to latest information delivered by CCP devs


So apparently CCP Fozzie is not a CCP dev or a CCP game designer? I linked you to his post and quoted it here. Links are getting smacked in the face, both on grid and off. It sounds like the entire mechanics may change eventually.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#60 - 2013-01-24 22:49:46 UTC
The OP is really only miffed at second accounts and the use of alts in any form. Which makes me smile. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.