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Improving Cargo Scanners: Mouse-over ISK value estimation
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bbb2020
Carebears with Attitude
#21 - 2013-01-23 21:42:53 UTC
Now Herr Wilkus
Arn't you one of the advocates that continuing to frown over everything that makes life easier for players, saying it's dumping down the game. And still; here you are, suggesting something to make life easier for some players.
I don't know if I can support that.

On the other hand, I see no reason why your suggestion shouldn't be implemented.
terzslave
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-01-24 07:26:18 UTC
Oh god the speed with which haulers could be evaluated for the gank..............I jizzed.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2013-01-24 07:58:06 UTC
Well this thread went down better than I was expecting...
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#24 - 2013-01-24 08:36:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Well this thread went down better than I was expecting...


No kidding. I half expected it to be carebear troll-bait.

Maybe the 'anti-ganker' brigade is trolling me by supporting this idea and confusing the hell out of me.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#25 - 2013-01-24 09:52:27 UTC
Wescro wrote:
I support it. Also, in the same vein, can ship scanners please show the EHP figure found in the fitting window. Twisted


And why not, also print the ship resists? And maybe place an arrow next to the best ammo to use.

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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-01-24 09:56:41 UTC
There's a third party tool that basically does this already. Oh you don't know about it? noob pirate.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-01-24 10:14:41 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Wescro wrote:
I support it. Also, in the same vein, can ship scanners please show the EHP figure found in the fitting window. Twisted


And why not, also print the ship resists? And maybe place an arrow next to the best ammo to use.

because copy & paste of the cargo scanner results into goonmetrics is so much more intelligent gameplay than getting the number displayed directly in client... Roll

ccan't allow EVE to be "dumbed down", can we?

.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#28 - 2013-01-24 10:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Vera Algaert wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Wescro wrote:
I support it. Also, in the same vein, can ship scanners please show the EHP figure found in the fitting window. Twisted


And why not, also print the ship resists? And maybe place an arrow next to the best ammo to use.

because copy & paste of the cargo scanner results into goonmetrics is so much more intelligent gameplay than getting the number displayed directly in client... Roll

ccan't allow EVE to be "dumbed down", can we?


We can even make it easier and put scripts optimizing gameplay and playing for us.

Where would the escalation to simplicity end?

Where's the skill in a mini-game profession when you take away all the randomness and even the "fatigue" involved with it?

Putting an estimated value on a cargo scanner could be fair enough, expecially since those estimates are usually wrong by a good margin and a best player would still make his own math before opening fire. And thus a diversity between mediocre vs best gankers would still exist. But that's it.

All those 3rd party tools are a damage to EvE more than a help, because they mimick the effects of the WoW add ons.
There are so many that the game ends up playing for you, thinking for you.

It's also a major reason why EvE is now so streamlined and plain boring. Only fun still to be had is in situational PvP and contracts (and CCP removed most stuff from them already). It's why I am playing another sandbox game too, with close to zero documentation and just 1 external app. Gives way more satisfaction to beat the next guy because of YOUR skill not because of double clicking an app.

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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#29 - 2013-01-24 11:18:42 UTC
Its a fair point, dumbing down the game is a bad thing. One size fits all Exhumers, etc. etc.
However, to a large extent, that horse has already left the barn. We are living in the Crimewatch 2.0 era now, baby.

TBH, I didn't even know about goonmetrics.....

I just realized that the 'improved' inventory system, as terrible as it is, did have the convenient addition of 'mouse-over' ISK estimates.

As a trader, I could appreciate that. Sure, I could sit there with a calculator and figure it all out manually - but i'm not sure if forcing people to do lots of arithmatic just to estimate the value of a pile of goods in your hangar is 'value added' gameplay.

As a ganker, however, I could see that ability being much more useful tied to the cargo scanner interface.
Sitting in the hangar, I've got plenty of time to calculate. Scanning at a gate, time is of the essence, especially when coordinating with others in fleet.

Why streamline things for traders and industrialists, but force gankers get to do math in their head? (or cut and paste to a 3rd party app?). The streamlining has occurred, lets just apply it for everyone. As far as 'buffs' are concerned, its a fairly mild one - simply a common sense UI improvement.
Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
#30 - 2013-01-24 13:37:47 UTC
Adding item value estimates to Cargo Scanners?

I don't see why not, as long as this is done EVERYWHERE else where applicable. I think it already is.

Adding EHP numbers to Cargo Scanners?

No. Just no. Two reasons:

# This is something the Ship Scanner should do, not the Cargo Scanner. Yes, that requires that you have two modules installed instead of one. Boo-hoo.

# Just how accurate do you want those EHP numbers? The basic number based on the ship and modules, or do you want player skill levels and/or implants included, maybe fleet bonuses as well? Whatever the case, this will be a database query I can imagine will make the server break down and cry. I doubt it'll ever be implemented.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-01-24 13:52:17 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:

I'd like to see this function added to the Cargo Scanners as well.
Would be nice to be able to simply 'mouse-over' the listed items in an given cargo ship and get a snap assessment of the value, without time consuming clicks or mental math.

why not add function: remove selected stuff from target cargobay and move it into your one? Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-01-24 13:53:51 UTC
Wescro wrote:
I support it. Also, in the same vein, can ship scanners please show the EHP figure found in the fitting window. Twisted

won't be 100% useful without advice about damage profile needed and prediction how long it will take to you to blow this thing

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Vlodovich
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-01-26 17:17:24 UTC
Makes sense! Great idea!! Big smile
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-01-26 18:51:59 UTC
Zaknussem raises a fair point about EHP - the skills of the pilot being scanned can make a big difference to the total, and I don't think it would be reasonable for a ship scan to (even if indirectly) reveal the training level of a character.

ISK value mouseover? Yeah, sure. Intentionally pushing players to copy-paste into external tools just so they can obtain simple information is just bad game design.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-01-26 18:59:32 UTC
Wescro wrote:
I support it. Also, in the same vein, can ship scanners please show the EHP figure found in the fitting window. Twisted


But then you'd take the uncertainty out of ganking. That's half the fun.

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Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-01-26 19:15:50 UTC
Pretty good idea actually... and it made me consider a counter skill.

Masking - Electronic skill with a rank of 3 or 4
Primary - Intelligence, Secondary - Memory
Skill at hiding the value of cargo items as seen my cargo scanners. A 10% reduction of value per skill level.

Or CCP could introduce a low slot cargo module with a small cargo hold total (or another skill) that smuggles (hides) a few items placed within from all forms of scanning with only the owner being able to see them.

Just some ideas.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#37 - 2013-01-26 19:30:03 UTC
Wescro wrote:
I support it. Also, in the same vein, can ship scanners please show the EHP figure found in the fitting window. Twisted


Don't forget recommending ammo type as well as activate your modules.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#38 - 2013-01-26 22:02:36 UTC
Wow, with this added, you guys can get even more risk-free kills to make yourself rich and feel awesome about your L33T PvP skills. I doubt you'll ever have to leave highsec again!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
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