Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So what? That ASB becomes almost useless once it's out of charges. An armor tank will now easily outlast that and easily tank your 500 DPS BC. After these changes a myrmidon will be able to tank as well as a battleship used to. The hyperion will be able to deal and tank over 1.1k DPS, if you have good skills. Even better if you overload things, especially with that new rig.

Quit trying to make the ancillary armor repairer a godly module. CCP isn't stupid.

Pretty certain that graph of his shows that a XLASB outtanks the LAAR even when you calculate reloads. And even if the graph showed the LAAR not being reloaded and going just normal repair (at it's mighty 3/4 T1 strength) it would still get outperformed by a reloading XLASB. Keep in mind the LAAR also needs to be fitting a cap booster(s) to keep itself going. It's pretty clear that the ASB tanking is still vastly superior to armor tanking (of any sort). You can't really argue against with any sort of credibility. Solution is pretty simple - either shield tanking gets nerfed... or armor tanking gets buffed.... or we all just shield tank.

Basically, what he just said above.

Feel free to compare 1x large AAR + 2x LARs to 2x XL-ASB if you'd like.

OK.

Hyperion with ions and void, two webs, mwd, scrambler, cap booster, 1x LAR II, 1xLAAR, damage control, two EANMS, one damage mod: Tanks over 1.2k DPS and deals over 1.1k DPS.

With two tech 2 LARs and a LAAR it will tank over 1.5k DPS, but guns have to be downgraded. Can the maelstrom tank like that without using both XL ASBs at the same time while having a MWD and warp disruptor? Definitely not. It tanks a little less than 1k. That maelstrom is definitely gimping CPU fitting two XL-ASBs.

Oh, this is while overloading the XL-ASB and the LAAR. With the new overload rig for armor it will be even better.

Yeah... Dual Rep with one cap booster. Lemme know how that works out for you. And props on using overheat for your base tank numbers. Then again, that might be why you only need one cap booster, cuz either you land exactly on your target and tackle them, or you die... horribly. Cuz the awesome Void range is ~11km while the Mael is hitting out to ~34km with faction ammo and selectable damage type (Hype meet Fusion). Plus the Mael's tank is quite a bit higher than 1.2k DPS when overheating... and it lasts longer overheating than the LARs do.

Facts are terrible things.

More accurately, the higher your skill the more frequently you're able to rep. The rep itself costs the same amount. But yes, I found that really weird when I was skilling up.

-Liang

As I have said before, using one ASB at a time and while having a MWD and warp disruptor. Of course it can break 1.2k DPS if you use both at the same time or use all six mid-slots.

No wonder CCP devs and ISD members sometimes get frustrated with people on these forums.

Alright, now at least it's not that awkward.
So the next logical step would be:

- make each and every local armor rep charge-able with nano-paste, I mean ALL of them;
- reduce bonus in charged mode to maybe 50% of base level;
- destroy ancillary thingy and pretend it never happened.

What it gives?
1. We eliminate must-have module. Must-have'ness is dumb, and always worth killing.
2. We introduce interesting gameplay around when to recharge each rep.
3. We bring back to life high-meta reps.
4. You, Fozzie, still have your burst tank option, also I dont personally agree with it. I mean, want a burst - overheat. Those heat rigs - they are right, I hope they'll be back soon.

Except your explanation was flawed. One rep vs One rep is actually the most balanced comparison you can make.
You then went and made a totally stupid comparison using 'Oh, well I ignore the LAAR charges and assume it's perma tank, then say the XLASB's have to be pulsed'. And are now whining when we called you on your flawed argument for full details, since you went and claimed most of a fit without listing the full fit on both sides.

Amazingly yeah I do play EvE. And I even use the same character to play the forums too. Pity you don't.

Can only run one ASB at a time? Any other bizarre restrictions you are gonna place on the Mael? Lemme guess it has to run the ASB continuously once it starts and can't pulse when needed. And it has to start within optimal of the Hype. And... and... Come on.

The Hype is a great ship on paper, but once it leaves EFT and hops into EvE it's not that good. Cuz EvE is not about 1v1s (which really is ironic that I'm saying that). And there is a reason most people don't use the Hype for PvP. And that's still not gonna change with these armor tanking changes alone. When they balance BSs it will undoubtedly get some love. But that's not really the issue here.

We're talking the LAAR. And in comparison to the XLASB, armor tanking does not measure up. Despite how much you are trying to convince yourself, it doesn't. The only advantage the LAAR has is more HP repped, but over a longer period of time. But most fights don't have that luxury. You need to rep as much as you can, as fast as you can. And that's what ASBs allow. They do it fast, they do it while immune to neuts, and they do it with relatively low fitting costs. And unless something else is done to make armor tanking more effective, the ASB tank is always gonna be the best choice.