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New dev blog: Ship-troduction: The Minmatar Tornado

First post First post
Author
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#421 - 2011-10-25 04:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:

This numbers realy show nothing.

1.) Did they get poped in the attempt to do PVE? i.e. In a wormhole/in a sactum/in a Incursion/when rating?

2.) Did they get poped in a pvp engagment before they fig out sniping BS's get scan locked and pind down before they can go to warp again?

so on and so on.

Sorry I figured any EVE Player who would have a comment on this would understand that the reason they are in the top six is because those 4 Battleships are the most well known Fleet Battlships in the game.

I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest are the fleet standard for PvP and are used heavily in large scale Warfare. which incidently is where they get such a high kill record compared to well everything else in the game below them.

Rip Minner wrote:

Secondly I would realy like to know how you know the new BC's are only going to have 25% of the tank and cant out run a BS?

I do not for sure but your Avg Battlecruiser has 35-50k EHP. I do not see why these would be any different. I never said they could outrun a Battleship, sure I have no doubt they could run. If only running = winning. They have less tank and since most Battlecruisers currently have 6 Guns and smaller Drone bays it is a good bet that they will do less DPS if they can even fit the largest guns like those Battleships can.

I am willing to bet that the Abbadon, Maelstrom and Co are not going anywhere soon.


Then I figured any EVE Player who would have a comment on this would understand that the reason they are in the top six is becouse those 4 Battleships fit 1400 Arty and Tach Beams but will probly end up costing twice as much as the new Tier 3 BC with 1400 Arty and Tach Beams there for replacing thoughs BS at there last good role in pvp.

Then go back and read my first post again?Bear

I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest will be replaced as the fleet standard in PVP when you can field 2 times as many Teir 3 BC with the same amount of isk and when your geting Alphed by the other side too the size of your EHP being 25% less realy do's not matter becouse when your geting Alphed is insta pop time for any sub cap ship.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Nagashiera Prime
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#422 - 2011-10-25 04:21:58 UTC
Nice job, CCP. The ship looks great, even if it is an upside-down-and-backwards Myrmidon. I'll reserve any negative remarks until after reviewing stats. My initial reaction was fear that this would further alienate small corporations from lowsec as gangs of alpha Tornadoes camp the gates, but I think it's time to put some fear into the Drake pilots. As many times as I've been frustrated that someone was able to burn back to the gate and jump, I think it's time to make burn-back less of an option in low and in null. Personally, I'd rather see bigger tanks and longer session timers to force some longer brawls, but this is a step in the right direction.

Reiterating what others have said, I would like to see the following:
1) No drone bays.
2) No tracking bonuses.

To encourage fleet diversity and composition, these ships should not be able to hit smaller targets very well. I do like the idea that these will function almost like mini-dreadnoughts in that they will be able to siege C1 WH POS structures and capital ships with greater DPS than their hull would traditionally allow.

To further diversify roles, I would like to suggest for debate the idea of disallowing this class of ships from fitting any sort of E-WAR (including propulsion jamming) so that their role is clearly defined and fleet commanders will actually start using ships that get bonuses for these roles.
Alara IonStorm
#423 - 2011-10-25 05:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Rip Minner wrote:


Then I figured any EVE Player who would have a comment on this would understand that the reason they are in the top six is becouse those 4 Battleships fit 1400 Arty and Tach Beams but will probly end up costing twice as much as the new Tier 3 BC with 1400 Arty and Tach Beams there for replacing thoughs BS at there last good role in pvp.

Bolded the wrong, Mega Pulse and 1400mm majority for Abbadons. Fleets rarely use Tachs since Apocrypha.

Rip Minner wrote:

I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest will be replaced as the fleet standard in PVP when you can field 2 times as many Teir 3 BC with the same amount of isk and when your geting Alphed by the other side too the size of your EHP being 25% less realy do's not matter becouse when your geting Alphed is insta pop time for any sub cap ship.

Bolded again, Drakes have 50% less then an Abbadon on a good day and I doubt they will have a Drake Tank. As for you can field thing, you very well can not field twice as many Tornado's, you can field as many as can show up to your gang and Battleships are not that expensive.

You are under the mistaken impression of how easy it is to Alpha something with a ton of HP. A Hellcat Gang will chew through 3 Tornado's before there 1400mm Cycle is over and done with. That Tornado Gang would be gone in short order. That is if they can even fit Guns that big which remains to be seen.

Battleships are not Dying. Because they were Dying because of HAC's, just like they were dying because of Bombs, just like they were dying because of Supercarriers and just like they were dying because of Drakes they are all still here. Turns out all those Deaths were "Forum Deaths". Once Tornado's lose enough Dmg for an Alpha they die. It would take 30-50 Tornado's (Unless you go by EFT Dmg) with the same Dmg as a Maelstrom. Because say what you want 40 Mega Pulse Abbadons shooting at one Tornado that has 30-50k EHP with low EM Resists, it is going to die long before they can Alpha another Abbadon.

Battleships are only Dying on the forums.
Sessym
Ministry of War
#424 - 2011-10-25 06:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Sessym
Training Battlecruisers to 5 now Big smile

[b]_____ ,,,,,,,,,,,,,;;;;;####;;-------======-]> --,,,,,,,,,.... //_###_____------;;;;;;;;;;;;'''----======-]> --'''''"""" //_/ -------[/b]

Itar Sheep
The Black Sheep Inc
#425 - 2011-10-25 06:31:08 UTC
Great, more high alpha gangs What?
AspiB'elt
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#426 - 2011-10-25 07:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: AspiB'elt
PLS CCP,

You need also to found some solution to modify something with racial bonus and ship.

Now the situation is :

Minmatar : Are the speed, don't use capa to fire and have also the web, have also the agility, best tracking for the gun, Can make damage in all resistance, have bonus on the tracking in the medium range ammo.

Gallente : Hybrid (no comment), use some capa when they fire, a good drone (but travel time). Damage Kinetic / Thermal.

Caldari : Missile and hybrid, dps on all resistance with missile

Amarr : the slower, Use a lot of capa, have the worst tracking, Damage only EM and thermal, Have some missile ship but with short range and you don't have speed ...

No they are to much avantage to fly minmatar, increase the range of the hybrid is good but not enough.

A lot of minmatar ship have some bonus for the tracking already. Decrease the tracking of the autocanon.

Now about battlecruiser :

Cyclone : 5% bonus medium projectif turret rate of fire , 7.5 % bonus shield boosting
Hurricane : 5% bonus medium projectif turret rate of fire and damage

Prophecy : 10% reduction in energy weapons capacitor, 5% all resistance
Harbinger : 10% reduction in energy weapons capacitor, 5% laser bonus damage

Now you have the strange situation with the amarr with the ew weapon neutralizer is more usefull tu put them on the minmatar ship against the amarr...

In the both case the amarr have some bonus to be able to fire ( 10% for capa). this is not a bonus, i hope it's normaly to be use your weapon when you use a ship.

You make a like more DPS, but less alpha then minmatar with more problem with no real 2 second bonus on the ship. It's the same problem for hybrid, but the hybrid have the second bonus.

PLS CCP decrease the capacity to need to fire with laser and hybrid. And also had some real bonus on this two ship. Exemple :

Prophecy : 5% tracking , 5% all resistance
Harbinger : 5% bonus on optimal and falloff, 5% laser bonus damage

Normaly in the roleplay. the amarr have the most evoluate weapons ... Ok but where is weapons are evoluate CCP.

It's the weapon use more Capacity, It's a weapon have the worst tracking, Make medium DPS and medium Alpha. About range ... Now the falloff is more important than optimal.
bard wilks
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#427 - 2011-10-25 09:30:10 UTC
About now..

..is a good time for the blog about the details..

pretty plx
Tepir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#428 - 2011-10-25 11:36:20 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:


Then I figured any EVE Player who would have a comment on this would understand that the reason they are in the top six is becouse those 4 Battleships fit 1400 Arty and Tach Beams but will probly end up costing twice as much as the new Tier 3 BC with 1400 Arty and Tach Beams there for replacing thoughs BS at there last good role in pvp.

Bolded is wrong, Mega Pulse and 1400mm majority for Abbadons. Fleets rarely use Tachs since Apocrypha.

Rip Minner wrote:

I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest will be replaced as the fleet standard in PVP when you can field 2 times as many Teir 3 BC with the same amount of isk and when your geting Alphed by the other side too the size of your EHP being 25% less realy do's not matter becouse when your geting Alphed is insta pop time for any sub cap ship.

Bolded again, Drakes have 50% less then an Abbadon on a good day and I doubt they will have a Drake Tank. As for you can field, you very well can not field twice as many, you can field as many as can show up and Battleships are not that expensive.

You are under the mistaken impression of how easy it is to Alpha something with a ton of HP. A Hellcat Gang will chew through 3 Tornado's before there 1400mm Cycle is over and done with. That Tornado Gang would be gone in short order. That is if they can even fit Guns that big which remains to be seen.

Battleships are not Dying. Just like they were Dying because of HAC's, just like they were dying because of Bombs, just like they were dying because of Supercarriers and just like they were dying because of Drakes they are all still here. Turns out all those Deaths were "Forum Deaths". Once Tornado's lose enough Dmg for an Alpha, a feet that would take 30-50 Tornado's (Unless you go by EFT) with the same Dmg as a Maelstrom they will be slaughtered. Because say what you want 40 Mega Pulse Abbadons shooting at one Tornado with 30-50k HP with low EM Resists is going to die way before they can Alpha another Abbadon.

Battleships are only Dying on the forums.



+1

in first two weeks my eve life, when my first dream was to fly abaddon as amarr pilot , all i heard was: dont train for that crap, they are dead... train minmatar hacs, zealots etc.... 2 years later... i didnt regret my first big skill was amarr BS lvl 5 , you see them more than bc's, you see them more than cruisers..... Abaddons, geddons and navy geddons are everywhere.... i wonder why ? 2 years ago forums told they are dead.... 2 years later forum still saying same thing...
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#429 - 2011-10-25 11:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowsword
Rip Minner wrote:
I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest will be replaced as the fleet standard in PVP when you can field 2 times as many Teir 3 BC with the same amount of isk and when your geting Alphed by the other side too the size of your EHP being 25% less realy do's not matter becouse when your geting Alphed is insta pop time for any sub cap ship.


And you can double your number of pilots in fleet by pulling them out of your hat?

Number of pilots in fleet is a finite ressource, even more than isk. If your fleet can field 100 tier3 BC to replace 50 BS, then your fleet can also field 100 BS.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#430 - 2011-10-25 12:38:09 UTC
I hope CCP's further blog comes out soon, the speculation that they'll be running around with a full rack of top tier large guns isn't constructive to the dicussion of their roles.
Neo Agricola
P A R A B E L L U M
#431 - 2011-10-25 12:45:06 UTC
fake or real?
Stats on Sisi for Tier 3 BC:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lo9it/tornado_oracle_naga_and_talos_tier_3_bcs_stats/

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710

bard wilks
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#432 - 2011-10-25 12:49:27 UTC
Efraya wrote:
Oracle
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed and 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Energy Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Energy Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets
Naga
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Torpedo Velocity, 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity, 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range and 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets 40% reduction in the powergrid need of Siege Missile Launchers 58% reduction in the CPU need of Siege Missile Launchers
Talos
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets
Tornado
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire and 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level.
95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Projectile Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Projectile Turrets

Source: Test client cache

Pea Roast from: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lo9it/tornado_oracle_naga_and_talos_tier_3_bcs_stats/

Ensnry
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#433 - 2011-10-25 12:52:13 UTC
DO WANT Shocked
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#434 - 2011-10-25 13:01:44 UTC
Neo Agricola wrote:


If this is real CCP officialy killed BC, CS and BS within one Update.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"

Neo Agricola
P A R A B E L L U M
#435 - 2011-10-25 13:10:56 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:


If this is real CCP officialy killed all old BC, CS and BS within one Update.


Fixed for you.

but look on the bright side:

You know exactly what your foes will field. ^^

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710

Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#436 - 2011-10-25 13:13:49 UTC
touché

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#437 - 2011-10-25 13:46:16 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:


If this is real CCP officialy killed BC, CS and BS within one Update.


No tanks on 'em. You won't want to take one to a pos bash for example. You won't be using them to run Sleeper sites, or the empire equivalents. They won't survive Incursions. Their roles will be limited, they won't replace all these.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#438 - 2011-10-25 14:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Damien White
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Damien White wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:


If this is real CCP officialy killed BC, CS and BS within one Update.


No tanks on 'em. You won't want to take one to a pos bash for example. You won't be using them to run Sleeper sites, or the empire equivalents. They won't survive Incursions. Their roles will be limited, they won't replace all these.


Well, we basicaly get a cheap Nightmare with Optimal Bonus, a fast Vindicator and a Machariel for free. Remember, these are T1 Ships, they get full payout from insurance.

Who the hell needs a Tank on these? Are you complaining about Cruiser with less than 30k HP?


And btw, fragile ships vs Frigs? Thank god we got a +10% to Velocity Factor of Stasis Webbifier per Level so even a Dramiel is dead meat.


One more thing, look at the PG difference between AC and Artillery or Pulse and Beam Laser. If these Ships carry at least 6 Turrets you get more than 500 free PG if you fit AC / Pulselaser, so you are able to use 1600 rolled Tungsten while having 95km Falloff or 75km Optimal. (with 2 tracking Enhancer/Computer) I wouldnt call this "no Tank".

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#439 - 2011-10-25 14:40:20 UTC
Assuming the stats are real I think they will have a very limited role and won't replace much if anything at all. I like the names. Since that information was pulled from the test server cache I would assume it is correct.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#440 - 2011-10-25 14:48:08 UTC
How about this?

http://pastebin.com/TkY3rY6q

Look at Line 1534 and following.

8 Weapons and way to many slots for Damagemods.

Hi/Med/Low
Naga: 8/6/4
Oracle 8/3/6
Talos: 8/4/5
Tornado: 8/5/4

PG way over 1000, Signature below 200, Speed above 200.
Hurricane: Signature 240, Speed 165

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"