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Dread blapping

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Jensen Kryplar
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#161 - 2013-01-23 22:59:09 UTC
You guys complain about "not getting fair fights." Even as the abusers of dread blapping, do you fail to realize that if you just brought a fair fight, say equal number of capitals and NONE more, this wouldn't be a problem?

Just because another large wormhole corp lands on your static and wants to fight DOES NOT immediately imply that they are going to try to evict you.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that it's common sense to get a good fight, provide a good fight.

If one of your corps rolled into EKCHU and had a dread or two with you, EKCHU would only bring a Carrier and a Dread at MOST. It's not hard to provide a good fight. Stop shoving around your weight if a fight comes to your home system and just give a fair fight.

The time to worry is when people start shooting towers. Otherwise, just commit a couple caps and fight on equal grounds. It's not hard.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#162 - 2013-01-24 01:17:40 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Omen Nihilo wrote:
VoC, K162, Exhale, to name a few.


Nope that's pretty much all of them... Roll Confirming they are all of WH space now, and once they don't like something your personal CSM rep gets to ask CCP for a stealth nerf without speaking to all other WH space folk.


The trick is to only ask for the nerf after you've gotten tired of abusing that particular mechanic. I wonder if the immunity to EWAR is the major factor in preventing effective counter play here?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#163 - 2013-01-24 01:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: QT McWhiskers
Mara Rinn wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
Omen Nihilo wrote:
VoC, K162, Exhale, to name a few.


Nope that's pretty much all of them... Roll Confirming they are all of WH space now, and once they don't like something your personal CSM rep gets to ask CCP for a stealth nerf without speaking to all other WH space folk.


The trick is to only ask for the nerf after you've gotten tired of abusing that particular mechanic. I wonder if the immunity to EWAR is the major factor in preventing effective counter play here?



No... its not. Simply put, if you are able to tracking disrupt a sieged moros, it would never hit anything... ever. Including caps. Moros tracking, while a tad bit high, is still really low when compared to even 1400 arties. Being able to TD a moros while sieged will make them totally uselss. CCP knew this when they made the ship and therefore made them immune to e-war while sieged.

Also I would really wish people who dont fly dreads regularly or have had dreads dropped on them on several occasions would stop posting in here. Seeing uninformed opinions which both camps know is wrong and will galdly shoot down is really annoying.

Also again, remote tracking enhancers would make moros even more OP at that point.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#164 - 2013-01-24 01:58:42 UTC
Two step wrote:
My issue with dread blapping is that there isn't a counter to it other than "bring more stuff". I am fine with dreads killing caps and battleships, but if I show up in small sig cruisers, dreads shouldn't be dominant.

FYI, this isn't something that I just came up with out of thin air, this has been a frequent complaint I have heard from many different corps and alliances. What makes EVE PVP great is that you should always be able to counter a specific fleet setup without just bringing 2x the numbers. That isn't the case with dreads + webs/painters.


If only this was at all anywhere close to true, unfortunately CCP has pushed EVE to the point where "bring 2x the numbers" is simply most often the most direct and best counter.


And here's you, trying to nerf one of the few things left, the glass cannon no tanked dread.


Coward.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#165 - 2013-01-24 02:25:34 UTC
Omen Nihilo wrote:
Hidden Fremen wrote:
I skimmed through the rest of these pages. You're quite alone where that's concerned. Who are these other corps and alliances that agree with you?

Maybe if you stopped "skimming" and tried reading you wouldn't have had to ask this... Roll

VoC, K162, Exhale, to name a few. Of course there's disagreement even within these alliances—which is why we're having this discussion in the first place. There are people spread out among a lot of alliances who agree with Two Step that dreads (the Moros in particular) are slightly imbalanced in w-space pvp.

But I'm done posting here. I respect most of the people posting in here, even if I disagree with them. Whatever the case, I'm confident that when Fozzie gets to Dreads he'll know what to do.


Bro, dreads aren't unbalanced. Two step crying about every little thing is what is unbalanced. First he cries that forcefields on POSes are unfair, now dreads.


Want to know why he doesn't want archons the most unbalanced carrier in the game and wspace to be nerfed? Because he flies them.
Omen Nihilo
Omen Holdings
#166 - 2013-01-24 03:15:17 UTC
Nerf all the things.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#167 - 2013-01-24 03:17:25 UTC
This basically amounts to Two Step getting blapped by a dread and crying about it because he's been too busy blogging and space counciling and not enough time internet space shipping so he didn't know what to do about it (hint: it doesn't involve 2x the numbers)

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Capricamper shore
State War Academy
Caldari State
#168 - 2013-01-24 04:46:25 UTC
This is old news and used in K-space all the time. You will find that Loki links help a ton.
Omen Nihilo
Omen Holdings
#169 - 2013-01-24 04:55:19 UTC
You will find that you don't know ****.
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#170 - 2013-01-24 05:25:28 UTC
Capricamper shore wrote:
This is old news and used in K-space all the time. You will find that Loki links help a ton.

Confirming you missed the point entirely.
Capricamper shore
State War Academy
Caldari State
#171 - 2013-01-24 08:11:01 UTC
Klarion Sythis wrote:
Capricamper shore wrote:
This is old news and used in K-space all the time. You will find that Loki links help a ton.

Confirming you missed the point entirely.



Good to know the whole thread was TLDR guess ignore me then
John Dowland
Lame Pheasant Gecko Squad
#172 - 2013-01-24 09:58:11 UTC
I've seen a large number of quality arguments against nerfing dread blapping in this thread. None of the arguments in support of the change are at all persuasive. Please remember that people have a lot invested in their home wormholes. If they're willing to pay for dreads and risk them, they deserve to benefit from it. Numerous effective counters are proposed here. It's also worth noting that dreads are regarded as the least entertaing and useful class of ships in the game. Members of my alliance doesn't even bother purchasing their own - the alliance loans them to us so we don't have to invest in a boring ship. One of the few worthwhile things about dreads is their ability to blap. Please retain this ability.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2013-01-24 11:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
It looks like this thread has got some attention on Themittani.com - http://themittani.com/features/blappage-wormhole-space-and-jumping-gun

It's a fairy well written article that condenses this thread down into the core issues.

I would be interesting to know what people living in null/low sec think. i.e. if the moros' tracking was to be significantly reduced, how would it affect them?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#174 - 2013-01-24 12:32:45 UTC
John Dowland wrote:
I've seen a large number of quality arguments against nerfing dread blapping in this thread. None of the arguments in support of the change are at all persuasive. Please remember that people have a lot invested in their home wormholes. If they're willing to pay for dreads and risk them, they deserve to benefit from it. Numerous effective counters are proposed here. It's also worth noting that dreads are regarded as the least entertaing and useful class of ships in the game. Members of my alliance doesn't even bother purchasing their own - the alliance loans them to us so we don't have to invest in a boring ship. One of the few worthwhile things about dreads is their ability to blap. Please retain this ability.


WH dreads =/= nullsec dreads

There is no Bob.

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DoomDoom Revolution
Handsome Seeding
Sigma Grindset
#175 - 2013-01-24 12:49:45 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
John Dowland wrote:
I've seen a large number of quality arguments against nerfing dread blapping in this thread. None of the arguments in support of the change are at all persuasive. Please remember that people have a lot invested in their home wormholes. If they're willing to pay for dreads and risk them, they deserve to benefit from it. Numerous effective counters are proposed here. It's also worth noting that dreads are regarded as the least entertaing and useful class of ships in the game. Members of my alliance doesn't even bother purchasing their own - the alliance loans them to us so we don't have to invest in a boring ship. One of the few worthwhile things about dreads is their ability to blap. Please retain this ability.


WH dreads =/= nullsec dreads

So you want to nerf a ship because of 1 area of space but ignore the other?
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#176 - 2013-01-24 13:18:29 UTC
One thing seems pretty clear: As there are no battleship fleets in w-space, if you nerf dreads such that they become completely useless against (T3) cruisers, they become useless altogether except for dumb activities like sieges and PvE. I think that would be a pity because dreadnoughts are pretty awesome and they are the only real bad-ass ship available to us w-space people.

If T3s, which are expensive but very fast to train for, are the only ships worth using in w-space, what's the point? Newer players in w-space need some inspiring long-term goals too...

.
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#177 - 2013-01-24 14:06:42 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Omen Nihilo wrote:
VoC, K162, Exhale, to name a few.


Nope that's pretty much all of them... Roll Confirming they are all of WH space now, and once they don't like something your personal CSM rep gets to ask CCP for a stealth nerf without speaking to all other WH space folk.


This was quite assuming of him considering members of those very alliances have made their own responses against nerfing dreads.
Omen Nihilo
Omen Holdings
#178 - 2013-01-24 14:50:35 UTC
Since you didn't bother to read the actual post in context, I'll help you out:
Omen Nihilo wrote:

VoC, K162, Exhale, to name a few. Of course there's disagreement even within these alliances—which is why we're having this discussion in the first place.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#179 - 2013-01-24 15:06:59 UTC
Remember, it's not about whether blap dreads can be countered, or whether some people "deserve" blap dreads in some circumstances. Old nano and blap titans could be countered, but they were still changed, not because they couldn't be countered but because they were causing a stagnant game dynamic where, regardless of the counters that did exist, it was a more sensible approach to just bring more of the original thing.
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#180 - 2013-01-24 15:24:26 UTC
AdoudelA wrote:
Hi all!

When I was reading today the CSM minutes I came by this part:

"Nearing the end of the meeting, Two step brought up the issue of Dread blapping in wormhole space.
This sparked an informal discussion to determine if the issue was the Dreads themselves, or just a
byproduct of wormhole combat. No meaningful solution was devised in a short time, but Fozzie added
that he would keep an eye on Dread blapping in wormhole space in particular."

So my question would be: What is Dread blapping precisely and why is it something that must be looked at?

Thank for the answers in advance.


Anyway... Thank you, AdoudelA, for sharing this observation. Two Step greatly misrepresented the wspace community and might have gotten HIS way unchallenged. This threadnought is deadnought.