These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

T3 logi and their crap range.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#1 - 2013-01-23 12:47:47 UTC
Is there anything on the books to fix the t3 logi boosts to their range? I mean 6k for medium reps and 8k for large reps make them impracticle to use in almost every situation. Has this been addressed already and I missed it or can we get some love from CCP on this issue?
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#2 - 2013-01-23 13:17:38 UTC
It's for spider tanking. And it works perfectly.

Friends
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-01-23 14:13:00 UTC
T3 are generalist ships. They already broke command ships by making T3s better than the T2 specialist ships in that role. Now you'd like them to do the same thing for Logi too?

How about no?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#4 - 2013-01-23 14:23:57 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
T3 are generalist ships. They already broke command ships by making T3s better than the T2 specialist ships in that role. Now you'd like them to do the same thing for Logi too?

How about no?


Im not talking Guardian style reps. Maybe 1/2 that or even double current range. 12k is still not that far, but infinitely better then 6k.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-23 15:55:59 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
T3 are generalist ships. They already broke command ships by making T3s better than the T2 specialist ships in that role. Now you'd like them to do the same thing for Logi too?

How about no?


Im not talking Guardian style reps. Maybe 1/2 that or even double current range. 12k is still not that far, but infinitely better then 6k.


I'm still failing to see why it's necessary. If you need more range on your reps, take a logi. What problem are you actually trying to solve with this suggestion?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#6 - 2013-01-23 15:56:57 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
T3 are generalist ships. They already broke command ships by making T3s better than the T2 specialist ships in that role. Now you'd like them to do the same thing for Logi too?

How about no?

At least they are soring the Command Ship issue out. I have no idea why they thought that T3's should have a 5% boost while Command Ships have a 3% boost. The 2% they are talking about it much more appropriate.

Dread Operative wrote:
Im not talking Guardian style reps. Maybe 1/2 that or even double current range. 12k is still not that far, but infinitely better then 6k.

I don't know about infinite. The last I checked, 12km is twice as good as 6km. And as I said before, its a secondary bonus for spider tanking. If you want to use it, you need to be on top of each other. Thats the point.

Friends
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#7 - 2013-01-23 16:16:48 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
T3 are generalist ships. They already broke command ships by making T3s better than the T2 specialist ships in that role. Now you'd like them to do the same thing for Logi too?

How about no?


Im not talking Guardian style reps. Maybe 1/2 that or even double current range. 12k is still not that far, but infinitely better then 6k.


I'm still failing to see why it's necessary. If you need more range on your reps, take a logi. What problem are you actually trying to solve with this suggestion?


Just jumping through a gate or titan bridging or BLOP's (with upcoming changes) can put you 20k away from some of your allies.

And as for spider repping, that's what its used for because of its limitations, being a modular ship and worth hundreds of millions of Isk limiting to such a narrow field is asinine. Imho.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-01-23 16:26:25 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
It's for spider tanking. And it works perfectly.


6km range does not work "perfectly", it does not work at all when you need to move on the battlefield.

Doubling the range like suggested doesn't take them even near to T2 logi range, would simply make them usable in T3s that are not PVE Tengus.

.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-23 16:32:56 UTC
I personally don't think a 200% range increase on remote repairers would be game breaking, as it is still no where near T1 support ship range. It would make there generalist status a little better. They should not get reduced cap amount.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-01-23 16:34:49 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
T3 are generalist ships. They already broke command ships by making T3s better than the T2 specialist ships in that role. Now you'd like them to do the same thing for Logi too?

How about no?


Im not talking Guardian style reps. Maybe 1/2 that or even double current range. 12k is still not that far, but infinitely better then 6k.


I'm still failing to see why it's necessary. If you need more range on your reps, take a logi. What problem are you actually trying to solve with this suggestion?


Just jumping through a gate or titan bridging or BLOP's (with upcoming changes) can put you 20k away from some of your allies.

And as for spider repping, that's what its used for because of its limitations, being a modular ship and worth hundreds of millions of Isk limiting to such a narrow field is asinine. Imho.


First of all, cost is not a factor. A Machariel costs billions of ISK properly fitted, and it can't remote rep any farther than your tengu can.
Second, T3s are generalist ships. They're not supposed to be good at anything in particular, which is why CCP is nerfing the command link bonuses.

If you want to ask for anything, ask for a dedicated logi module for each one that would add (limited) bonuses to that role. That would be more balanced than just handing out a blanket bonus that would once again push that class of ships into OP land.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#11 - 2013-01-23 16:36:41 UTC
Even with the upcoming BLOP changes all you will see them used for in titan-mini's. No one is going to BLOPdrop a billion Isk ship with horrid Ehp without bridging in some sort of logi first. That being said, only t3 with covert subsystems can do that. (Billion Isk AT ships not included)
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#12 - 2013-01-23 16:43:40 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
T3 are generalist ships. They already broke command ships by making T3s better than the T2 specialist ships in that role. Now you'd like them to do the same thing for Logi too?

How about no?


Im not talking Guardian style reps. Maybe 1/2 that or even double current range. 12k is still not that far, but infinitely better then 6k.


I'm still failing to see why it's necessary. If you need more range on your reps, take a logi. What problem are you actually trying to solve with this suggestion?


Just jumping through a gate or titan bridging or BLOP's (with upcoming changes) can put you 20k away from some of your allies.

And as for spider repping, that's what its used for because of its limitations, being a modular ship and worth hundreds of millions of Isk limiting to such a narrow field is asinine. Imho.


First of all, cost is not a factor. A Machariel costs billions of ISK properly fitted, and it can't remote rep any farther than your tengu can.
Second, T3s are generalist ships. They're not supposed to be good at anything in particular, which is why CCP is nerfing the command link bonuses.

If you want to ask for anything, ask for a dedicated logi module for each one that would add (limited) bonuses to that role. That would be more balanced than just handing out a blanket bonus that would once again push that class of ships into OP land.


First off - lol, whut? At you Mach analogy. Horrible comparison.
Second I didn't state how they should fix it, only if looking at the LOGI aspect was on the books.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-01-23 17:01:53 UTC
Confirmed they work fine, great even. More range would be nice, but not at the expense of the bonus to rep amount.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2013-01-23 17:56:11 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:

If you want to ask for anything, ask for a dedicated logi module for each one that would add (limited) bonuses to that role. That would be more balanced than just handing out a blanket bonus that would once again push that class of ships into OP land.


You do know that T3s have a logistics subsystem that gives a bonus to RR? It's just very uncommonly used outside bear Tengu applications, because it's almost impossible to keep the range reliably in brawling situations. 12km range still means that you will be 100% committed to the brawl, but you can actually keep the RR modules doing their thing.

T3s are meant to do many things well, but not be the best at anything, or better than specialist T2 ships. Making one subsystem actually usable does not step on the toes of T1 or T2 logi cruisers, which have 60+ km range.

.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#15 - 2013-01-23 18:21:22 UTC
Roime wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:

If you want to ask for anything, ask for a dedicated logi module for each one that would add (limited) bonuses to that role. That would be more balanced than just handing out a blanket bonus that would once again push that class of ships into OP land.


You do know that T3s have a logistics subsystem that gives a bonus to RR? It's just very uncommonly used outside bear Tengu applications, because it's almost impossible to keep the range reliably in brawling situations. 12km range still means that you will be 100% committed to the brawl, but you can actually keep the RR modules doing their thing.

T3s are meant to do many things well, but not be the best at anything, or better than specialist T2 ships. Making one subsystem actually usable does not step on the toes of T1 or T2 logi cruisers, which have 60+ km range.


He believes the Adaptive Augmenter is specifically for spider tanking only and not to use as dedicated logistics.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#16 - 2013-01-23 20:00:36 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
Roime wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:

If you want to ask for anything, ask for a dedicated logi module for each one that would add (limited) bonuses to that role. That would be more balanced than just handing out a blanket bonus that would once again push that class of ships into OP land.


You do know that T3s have a logistics subsystem that gives a bonus to RR? It's just very uncommonly used outside bear Tengu applications, because it's almost impossible to keep the range reliably in brawling situations. 12km range still means that you will be 100% committed to the brawl, but you can actually keep the RR modules doing their thing.

T3s are meant to do many things well, but not be the best at anything, or better than specialist T2 ships. Making one subsystem actually usable does not step on the toes of T1 or T2 logi cruisers, which have 60+ km range.


He believes the Adaptive Augmenter is specifically for spider tanking only and not to use as dedicated logistics.

Please, do explain how a resist bonus helps your rep another ship.

Or, this is a spider tanking sub, designed to be used to its greatest effect when working with other T3s with the same sub combination...

Friends
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-01-23 20:05:47 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
Roime wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:

If you want to ask for anything, ask for a dedicated logi module for each one that would add (limited) bonuses to that role. That would be more balanced than just handing out a blanket bonus that would once again push that class of ships into OP land.


You do know that T3s have a logistics subsystem that gives a bonus to RR? It's just very uncommonly used outside bear Tengu applications, because it's almost impossible to keep the range reliably in brawling situations. 12km range still means that you will be 100% committed to the brawl, but you can actually keep the RR modules doing their thing.

T3s are meant to do many things well, but not be the best at anything, or better than specialist T2 ships. Making one subsystem actually usable does not step on the toes of T1 or T2 logi cruisers, which have 60+ km range.


He believes the Adaptive Augmenter is specifically for spider tanking only and not to use as dedicated logistics.

Please, do explain how a resist bonus helps your rep another ship.

Or, this is a spider tanking sub, designed to be used to its greatest effect when working with other T3s with the same sub combination...

Um the adaptive augmenter gives a 10% per level to RR

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#18 - 2013-01-23 20:24:57 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
He believes the Adaptive Augmenter is specifically for spider tanking only and not to use as dedicated logistics.

Please, do explain how a resist bonus helps your rep another ship.

Or, this is a spider tanking sub, designed to be used to its greatest effect when working with other T3s with the same sub combination...


It was already addressed above about the rep bonus, but I'll add on, that since it is a defensive subsystem, it would make sense that it has some sort of defensive properties. IE resistance bonus.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-01-23 20:32:31 UTC
To the OP, I'm sure it is "on the books" when CCP gets to rebalancing T3's. They have already stated they are hoping to both balance T3's and make all of the subs useful. (let's face it, there are a bunch of subs that simply NEVER get used).

But given the overall attitudes about T3's I would not expect ANY of the current T3's capabilities to get a buff.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#20 - 2013-01-23 20:38:33 UTC

I posted this same thread last week...

T3 Rep ranges should NOT be anywhere near the ranges of t1 or t2 logi ships... but they definitely should be longer than 6-8 km's.

In my opinion, the logi subsystem needs two things adjusted:
1.) Increase the ship's max number of targets by +2.
2.) Provide a 40% bonus to rep range / subsystem level. This would result in reps that have a 18-24 km range, which is short, but not soo prohibitively short that the ship becomes almost useless for RR.

123Next page