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EVE's summer expansion better focus on sovereignty

Author
flakeys
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-01-23 13:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
this sov problem didn't seem to stop your alliance from the conquest of mighty Cobalt Edge mere weeks ago hmmmm



It's only a problem when they are not 100% sure they win , they have come to the point where it is inevitable to risk a loss now , how amusingly ironic Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Anslo
Scope Works
#42 - 2013-01-23 13:35:28 UTC
CCP focus on PvE, shiny things, WiS, and general care bear things this summer.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Prince Kobol
#43 - 2013-01-23 13:38:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
As demonstrated by the averted war between the CFC and the HBC, two coalitions who have been itching to shoot at each other for months, sov mechanics need to be fixed. Now. We're utterly fed up with dealing with timers and structure bashes and space that people don't care enough about to defend. We want battles, exploding ships, and goodfights, but these are becoming increasingly rare as more people get tired of the current sov mechanics.

So please, CCP, focus the summer expansion on sovereignty mechanics. I know it's a big project, but it needs to be done more than anything else and it needs to happen sooner rather than later.


Whilst this may be true (Sov Grind being a terrible mechanic) it has nothing to with why a war has not and will not break out between CFC and HBC, but everything to do with Shadoo not wanting to risk his precious tech moons and neither CFC or HBC willing to fight without having PL on their side.

There will never be a war until the issue with Tech moons is resolved one way or another.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#44 - 2013-01-23 14:33:30 UTC
So basically, you want ccp to make sweeping changes to a large portion of code without much guidance on what change would work and be liked. Those changes must be finished, tested, player tested, and be released 6 months even though there are already on going design changes that have been planned, approved, and assigned resources.

You really don't want much, do you? Shocked

Look, I think we all feel sov mechanics need work. However, to give proper time to such a task, at least give ccp til next winter or even summer of 2014 for something that will work.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#45 - 2013-01-23 14:43:22 UTC
I smell an unsub riot coming soon if somethings not done with Sov. This is now gotton so rediculously out of control that it is now hurting the game. CCP better wake up and smell the coffee before they have a repeat of thousands ubsubing. Nevermind the new ships, eyecandy, and other crap, start addressing issues that hurt the game, Sov being the main one. Blink

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#46 - 2013-01-23 14:52:15 UTC
So... throwing my 0.02 isk into the ring, and speaking from a non-sov holding perspective:

How about something a little closer to FW?

For every system upgrade, have a few size limited plex around (Ideally with a few entry points. So it can't just be camped at the entrance with overwhelming force). High level upgrades = big plex. low levels = cruisers.

Allows smaller, non supercap holding groups potentially hold low levels of sov, without quite so much of a rolf stomp (Numbers will will. Titans less so. But they'll make it easier to knock out someone's high level sov.)

Sure, there will still be timers, but they're active timers, rather than 'blap something till reinforced, then wait'.

If there's a cynojammer, have it anchored in deadspace, needing a fleet of small ships to knock it out.

Maybe have a hacking mechanic to uprate the acceleration gates, allowing bigger ships in. With a long timer though. Maybe a new skill to reduce it a bit.


One benefit is, you can have, say, some BLOPs running around behind the front lines, knocking out small plex, and negatively impacting supply lines.

Solves the 'hot drops aren't fun' complaint. Smile

This is, of course, bare bones, and from a complete outsider.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#47 - 2013-01-23 15:07:32 UTC
So, way before the current sov mechanics were introduced, CCP said something along the lines of;

"The current sov mechanics do not favour smaller coalitions/alliances as they have to hit POS' etc etc. For this we plan to add Territorial Claim units on a POS, and ways to block the sovreignty before attacking"

They also said; "In addition to this, we will be adding some smaller 'side goals' that will impact the way the sov is taken and how quickly it can be"

Now this was a fantastic idea! and they didn't do it. So u were left with, hit TCU, hit IHUB, hit Station, all requiring dreads upon dreads upon fleets to take out.

Where are the smaller side-goals CCP, would have been great to be able to send out a 20 man gang whilst a big fight is going on to disrupt sovreignty.

-Buhhd
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#48 - 2013-01-23 15:24:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I'll say it again: if CCP think that players will be infinitely patient, they are incorrect. Matters are coming to a head in null and if there isn't a proper reworking of sov 0.0, it's not going to be pretty.

I fully understand that CCP wanted to work on empire for the last few years, but now the situation in null is approaching meltdown. It has been 5 years since the last work on improving sov 0.0 was done, and now that patience is wearing very thin indeed.

*Eliminate multi-million hp structures as the lynchpin of sov. Sov strength should be determined by player activity, not deployable structures.

*Undefended sov should be easy to take, no to remotely set timers.

*Make it viable for 0.0 players to actually live in 0.0 by reworking outposts so that we can upgrade them to match NPC systems

*Base alliance income on the activity of players, not the output of lifeless moons owned by an elite few.


At the moment, Sov 0.0 depends on supers, structures and moons. It should depend on players.

Somebody gets it, simple common sense, Malcanis, you probably just got my vote Blink

......................................................

Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-01-23 15:27:06 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You don't want to think about what would happen to empire if most of the sov alliances decided to get serious about making a point.


YES WE DO! acta non verba

Here's my question: If 0.0 is such a terrible place, why don't you just leave? If there are such better options, then leave null to the people who think it rocks.


tip: nullsec might be ****, but it's where interesting things happen. when was the last time you heard anything significant happening in high sec that wasn't a result of 0.0 folk deciding to be dicks?


Live events with sansha incursions? The RP community throwing banter back and forth with CCP actors. Personally it would be nice if eve had the drama you seen in Game of Thrones. With back stabbing, manipulation and the melodrama that could be null sec.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-01-23 15:33:09 UTC
What would happen if all resources were "regionalized"?

Mind, I don't think that it is such a good idea to have it like this but on the other hand I have absolutely no clue on how things would end up if they were. It could end up for the better.

Alternatively it could end up with the super-blobs merging further and attempting to take over the entire universe and probably be fairly successful at it in the process, given the way the current mechanics are.
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#51 - 2013-01-23 15:33:17 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lets be blunt while this whole thing looks like a stunt to get CCP to redo Sov warfare, as they are currently starting their planning for the next expansion.

It is still a worth while stunt.

POSs are old out of date and a night mare
Sov is old out of date and a nightmare
Corporate roles and management well hey that just needs shooting


There seems to be a theme forming here. Now CCP does not want to do a lot in one hit, on just one thing. Fair enough I can understand that but EvE players while patient (Lets face it EvE is a game of patience, look at the skill queue) but the players are not infinitely patient.

So start on these problems and come up with a publicly avaiable time table for completion. This way you can start on these and give people some relief in the mean time and then add other neat stuff in the expansions like new ships or cool things for new players.

Oh and on Null, Top down income needs to die and fast.


This exactly.

wumbo

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#52 - 2013-01-23 15:50:05 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Some stuff



Oh, and I'd keep broadcasts of things being attacked down, until there's actually a drop in sov.

Except a broadcast in Local, and a beacon when it's attacked. Lore reason: They're jamming the fluid routers. Or something.

That way, people who look after their systems can know they're being attacked. Otherwise, they don't.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2013-01-23 15:52:31 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
So basically, you want ccp to make sweeping changes to a large portion of code without much guidance on what change would work and be liked. Those changes must be finished, tested, player tested, and be released 6 months even though there are already on going design changes that have been planned, approved, and assigned resources.

You really don't want much, do you? Shocked

Look, I think we all feel sov mechanics need work. However, to give proper time to such a task, at least give ccp til next winter or even summer of 2014 for something that will work.

No, they've had years to fix this steaming cauldron of **** and they know it.

Gillia Winddancer wrote:
What would happen if all resources were "regionalized"?

Mind, I don't think that it is such a good idea to have it like this but on the other hand I have absolutely no clue on how things would end up if they were. It could end up for the better.

Alternatively it could end up with the super-blobs merging further and attempting to take over the entire universe and probably be fairly successful at it in the process, given the way the current mechanics are.

The resources (moon minerals) are already specific to certain regions of the game, and while they used to be a major conflict driver that's dying down, especially since tech isn't as good as it used to be.

Other resources that are universal over null (roids, PI) aren't worth fighting for anyway.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Dave Stark
#54 - 2013-01-23 15:57:57 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You don't want to think about what would happen to empire if most of the sov alliances decided to get serious about making a point.


YES WE DO! acta non verba

Here's my question: If 0.0 is such a terrible place, why don't you just leave? If there are such better options, then leave null to the people who think it rocks.


tip: nullsec might be ****, but it's where interesting things happen. when was the last time you heard anything significant happening in high sec that wasn't a result of 0.0 folk deciding to be dicks?


Live events with sansha incursions? The RP community throwing banter back and forth with CCP actors. Personally it would be nice if eve had the drama you seen in Game of Thrones. With back stabbing, manipulation and the melodrama that could be null sec.


i said significant, incursions aren't significant they're a pretty mundane game mechanic as far as it goes. the live event things are... well i wouldn't know i've never known about one in order to be able to visit it. hence my point, it's just not interesting. or they're simply poorly advertised. either way they don't have an impact on anything. if they did perhaps they'd get more attention. never seen a thread about live events anywhere on GD either.

the very simple fact is things that matter get talked about everywhere; that simply isn't so with live events. it's nice that ccp bother, but it'd also be nice if they bothered to promote it.
Dave Stark
#55 - 2013-01-23 15:58:25 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
What would happen if all resources were "regionalized"?


look at tech and there is your answer.
Mamucha
Rookie Empire Citizens
#56 - 2013-01-23 16:06:09 UTC
I agree that SOV mechanics needs more work and iteration. But its not the reason why big boys dont go to war. Big boys dont go to war becouse theyre used to having easy life, tons of iskies comeing in, stability of area they controll, etc... Life too easy for them. War usually has only one winner, industrialist that sell the ship and other supplies being blown up.

Personally i would welcome few changes to 0.0:
- Progressive tax like payments: more you own, more expencive per system it becomes. Dosent prevent you conquering entire 0.0, but you will pay for it heavy price...
- Ring mining, brake those tech2 material bottlenecks that currently exists...
-Even out 0.0 so even real 0.0 security system has some decent ratting sites, gives smaller alliances atleast in theory some change to gain iskies for war... Yeah i think they took 0.0 anomaly nerf/buff too far...
- Add few random timespace storms that can prevent jumpdriving throw them. Yes you still get there, but may need to take longer route since you hit this wierd space storm... Heck maybe they could prevent jumpdriving to few systems entirely while they last...

We were recruiting.

Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-01-23 16:12:02 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
What would happen if all resources were "regionalized"?


look at tech and there is your answer.


Well, that is the thing though.

If ALL moon materials and whatnot else that is needed for T2 production were regional and spread out all over, what would happen?

Well, basically have each material have a specific area where they are found in a relative abundance whilst being very uncommon/rare elsewhere. I still think it's a bad idea to have an absolute regional occurrence at least. But at the very least, whilst I believe that it would not be impossible, it would take a hellish amount of effort for any blob to gobble up the entire EVE universe in order to control all resources.

Maybe the problem with tech is that it is the only resource that is regional? Or am I wrong here?

In any case, maybe, just maybe a setup like this would promote either trade and/or conflict. Cause that is the other side of the problem with null right now isn't it? Lack of reasons to have conflicts.

And yet I fail to see why nullers are not interested in any suggestions that would create said conflicts that they sorely miss. Wanting to eat the cake and keep it at the same time is indeed proving to be quite a task...and one hell of a source of amusement for us spectators :)
Dave Stark
#58 - 2013-01-23 16:15:13 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
What would happen if all resources were "regionalized"?


look at tech and there is your answer.


Well, that is the thing though.

If ALL moon materials and whatnot else that is needed for T2 production were regional and spread out all over, what would happen?

Well, basically have each material have a specific area where they are found in a relative abundance whilst being very uncommon/rare elsewhere. I still think it's a bad idea to have an absolute regional occurrence at least. But at the very least, whilst I believe that it would not be impossible, it would take a hellish amount of effort for any blob to gobble up the entire EVE universe in order to control all resources.

Maybe the problem with tech is that it is the only resource that is regional? Or am I wrong here?

In any case, maybe, just maybe a setup like this would promote either trade and/or conflict. Cause that is the other side of the problem with null right now isn't it? Lack of reasons to have conflicts.

And yet I fail to see why nullers are not interested in any suggestions that would create said conflicts that they sorely miss. Wanting to eat the cake and keep it at the same time is indeed proving to be quite a task...and one hell of a source of amusement for us spectators :)


if they were all spread out? the big guys would obtain the bottle neck resources and profit from it because theirs is the resource with highest demand/lowest supply.

unless all items used identical volumes of everything, and everything was produced at the same rate, which would lead to a boring system where every one just traded everything 1:1 or they would end up being unable to create everything.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2013-01-23 16:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
Malcanis wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I mean not that I don't enjoy the tears but when the entire development of the game is focused on countering the activities of bored players trying to find something interesting to do, rather than actually giving them the mechanics to do interesting things.. well .. it becomes a priority problem.

I don't know how accurate my analysis here is, but its my observation from the chair Im sitting in anyway.


It's quite accurate, although I wouldn't go so far as to say "entire" development.

And little skirmishes like Burn Jita and Hulkageddon were just short term comedy events by one alliance. You don't want to think about what would happen to empire if most of the sov alliances decided to get serious about making a point.





We just have to be careful about how much of CCPs attention we draw. It's like a kid wanting attention from their parents - you can ask nicely or you can flip the table. Both will get you attention - only one will get you the kind of attention you'll enjoy.

That said, nullsec sov is horribly, dangerously broken. We're very close to the situation on the Chinese server where two blued up entities control all of nullsec, and by default, everything else too. Want to play in Faction War? Pick a side, HBC of CFC. Want to mine in highsec? Pick a side, and then go to their side of highsec. Want to manufacture and trade? Pick a side, or they'll both gank your haulers to keep you from competing. There will be literally no room left for other groups to compete, and no way for them to do so.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#60 - 2013-01-23 16:34:58 UTC
CCP wants to develop themes for their expansions that touch on many area's of play, which is an excellent idea.

I'd personally like to see the next theme be "Make it your own", which would include ownership and customization of the things you own (Your Avatar, your CQ, your POS, your Outpost, your Sov, your ship).

I think that would encompass many of the more pressing, more desired, and more interesting area's currently being discussed.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.