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Orbital bombardment damage

Author
Tobias Annages
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-01-23 09:26:25 UTC
Would having damage mods in your low slots increase the damage of the orbital strike? Or is it a fixed amount of damage it can do?
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#2 - 2013-01-23 11:31:37 UTC
better question would be.

When do we get to seige up the dreads and start glassing the districts to nothingness :-P
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-01-23 11:50:53 UTC
am i the only one who doubts the destructive power of an orbital strike launched from a 125mm cannon? hint: WW2 artillery shells usually had 150-225mm caliber and their damage potential was not quite large enough to be seen from orbit....

I should buy an Ishtar.

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-01-23 12:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Daniel Plain wrote:
am i the only one who doubts the destructive power of an orbital strike launched from a 125mm cannon? hint: WW2 artillery shells usually had 150-225mm caliber and their damage potential was not quite large enough to be seen from orbit....


You didnt just bring RL into my game Evil

Have you noticed the TYPE of ammo we fire? and the velocity of the rounds... also future, and 7 guns, each with 2 separate rotating sets of barrels all firing a burst etc etc.

Now dont bring RL here again

No Worries

Moe Cislak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-23 12:49:44 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
am i the only one who doubts the destructive power of an orbital strike launched from a 125mm cannon? hint: WW2 artillery shells usually had 150-225mm caliber and their damage potential was not quite large enough to be seen from orbit....


You're shooting with giant guns from outer space, not with this:
http://guadalcanal.homestead.com/files/Jap_150mm_gun_Honiara.jpg

To answer OP's question, the more turrets you use, the more damage you make. Destroyers with their 7 guns are quite good at orbital bombing.
Freyya
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-01-23 13:35:48 UTC
Dude...RAILGUN...velocity of what, a couple thousand km/sec? Thats like a small asteroid impact WITH a payload added...
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-24 10:17:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Daniel Plain wrote:
am i the only one who doubts the destructive power of an orbital strike launched from a 125mm cannon? hint: WW2 artillery shells usually had 150-225mm caliber and their damage potential was not quite large enough to be seen from orbit....


WW2 Artillery shells didn't contain antimatter and were dropped from orbit at 0.X% of light speed.

EDIT: That said the easiest and by far cheapest way to glass a planet would be to but a tractor beam on Your ship and pull some close by, large enough asteroids into the gravity well of the planet. or just fill Your cargo Hold with large chunks of metall and drop 'em. The forces acting on impact should equal that of our modern day nuclear weapons.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#8 - 2013-01-24 10:55:15 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
am i the only one who doubts the destructive power of an orbital strike launched from a 125mm cannon? hint: WW2 artillery shells usually had 150-225mm caliber and their damage potential was not quite large enough to be seen from orbit....

It is not about the caliber, but the mass * speed. Kinetic energy rulz.

Mass drivers has always been the most proficiency orbital bombardment tools in Sci Fi. If a 30 m wide roid could level 400 km of forest in tunguska, just wonder what will do a full rack of railguns shooting every 2 secs 14 rounds at 0.5 c. Add some thermal plating to the darts and a small antimatter payload and boom!! here you have your ravaged planet.
Tesh Sevateem
Cherry Candy Mountain
#9 - 2013-01-24 12:48:34 UTC
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-01-24 12:49:08 UTC
I'm actually more surprized by the amount of hate our spaceships can take, all things considering; both from gameplay and fluff PoV.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-01-24 16:31:24 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
I'm actually more surprized by the amount of hate our spaceships can take, all things considering; both from gameplay and fluff PoV.


That thought always ruins the immersion for too. It seems to me that one small hole in the hull would tear a ftl speed ship to shreads.
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#12 - 2013-01-24 16:44:22 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
I'm actually more surprized by the amount of hate our spaceships can take, all things considering; both from gameplay and fluff PoV.


That thought always ruins the immersion for too. It seems to me that one small hole in the hull would tear a ftl speed ship to shreads.

Not really. If you don't pierce any pressurized room or energy "something" It just doesn't matter. It is just a big piece of steel in space. One or two more holes on it won't change anything.

And even if you do, there are emergency breach doors and energy rerouting conduits. The ship will be safe enough.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#13 - 2013-01-24 18:02:39 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
EDIT: That said the easiest and by far cheapest way to glass a planet would be to but a tractor beam on Your ship and pull some close by, large enough asteroids into the gravity well of the planet. or just fill Your cargo Hold with large chunks of metall and drop 'em. The forces acting on impact should equal that of our modern day nuclear weapons.


Not by a long way...

An asteroid used as a planetary bombardment munition is a kinetic energy impactor (with perhaps a small chemical payload) - so if you accelerate it towards the planet with a KE of (for example) 150MJ it will have the same energy on impact as any other projectile launched at 150MJ...

Except for the fact that the composition of an asteroid is unpredictable and its structure inconsistent - any atmosphere between launch and impact may cause significant issue both in targetting and projectile break-up (particularly with pcokets of solid CO2 or H2O which might vent in all manner of different directions) not to mention the inconsistent aerodynamic profile.
Compare that with a tungsten penetrator with a hyrdodynamic design*; consistent density, no materials to sudlimate out of the core, a constant aerodynamic profile...
By the time it's reached the target a manufactured projectile will have lost less mass, be closer to its target (and stands a much greater chance of actually reaching the ground)... and it fits relatively standard weapon systems which do not require significant retrofitting to mount on a standard hull.

Then you have the transport costs - yes, your manufactured munitions have to be transported to the bombardment site, but so do your asteroids, you aren't going to find them inside geostationary orbit, if you wanted to bombard Earth you're looking at a trip well in excess of a year in each direction at sublight speeds - and each trip would provide a few (in EVE terms a maximum of eight) rounds of ammunition.
In order to accelerate these towards the planet you have the issue of your launch platform; either you need to ship or construct a specialised launch platform (which is likely to mean far more mass to ship than just a crate of ammunition) or you’re going to have to use a ship to drive the ‘roid towards the target, either by tractoring it behind your vessel (what are the losses from the tractor beam itself?) or by putting the nose of your vessel against it and pushing it (probably requiring reinforcement to the nose and certainly requiring repainting afterwards). The first and last of these methods would also require work by a bunch of guys in space suits to remove lumps and bumps which might damage the launch equipment.

You also need to consider the longer term effects of your bombardment – You’re presumably intending to occupy the planet after you’ve conquered it, so the time it took for the ecosystem to recover after the KT impact would be unacceptable, a more surgical strike is possible with more conventional weapons.

Finally... If, instead of using a kinetic impacter you use a projectile which includes a stored energy element (an explosive for example) then the energy you need to invest at the point of launch can be significantly reduced. The explosive yield adds to the kinetic yield, and with a ten or so grams of antimatter (held in a magnetic ‘bottle’ until impact) that could mean energy yields equivalent to millions of tonnes of TNT...

All in all, whether you’re The Imperium of Man, The United Federation of Planets, The Covenent, or a capsuleer supporting your DUST comrades; conventional weapons are significantly more valuable, more efficient, more effective and even cheaper than using mass drivers to pound it with asteroids.
On the other hand (as with the Centari bombing Narn back to the stone age) the dust, climate and other global effects of asteroid bombardment might have a beneficial morale effect if you’re willing to pay for it (but that’s a big bill, both in time and money).
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-01-25 08:53:43 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
EDIT: That said the easiest and by far cheapest way to glass a planet would be to but a tractor beam on Your ship and pull some close by, large enough asteroids into the gravity well of the planet. or just fill Your cargo Hold with large chunks of metall and drop 'em. The forces acting on impact should equal that of our modern day nuclear weapons.


Not by a long way...

An asteroid used as a planetary bombardment munition is a kinetic energy impactor (with perhaps a small chemical payload) - so if you accelerate it towards the planet with a KE of (for example) 150MJ it will have the same energy on impact as any other projectile launched at 150MJ...

Except for the fact that the composition of an asteroid is unpredictable and its structure inconsistent - any atmosphere between launch and impact may cause significant issue both in targetting and projectile break-up (particularly with pcokets of solid CO2 or H2O which might vent in all manner of different directions) not to mention the inconsistent aerodynamic profile.
Compare that with a tungsten penetrator with a hyrdodynamic design*; consistent density, no materials to sudlimate out of the core, a constant aerodynamic profile...
By the time it's reached the target a manufactured projectile will have lost less mass, be closer to its target (and stands a much greater chance of actually reaching the ground)... and it fits relatively standard weapon systems which do not require significant retrofitting to mount on a standard hull.

Then you have the transport costs - yes, your manufactured munitions have to be transported to the bombardment site, but so do your asteroids, you aren't going to find them inside geostationary orbit, if you wanted to bombard Earth you're looking at a trip well in excess of a year in each direction at sublight speeds - and each trip would provide a few (in EVE terms a maximum of eight) rounds of ammunition.
In order to accelerate these towards the planet you have the issue of your launch platform; either you need to ship or construct a specialised launch platform (which is likely to mean far more mass to ship than just a crate of ammunition) or you’re going to have to use a ship to drive the ‘roid towards the target, either by tractoring it behind your vessel (what are the losses from the tractor beam itself?) or by putting the nose of your vessel against it and pushing it (probably requiring reinforcement to the nose and certainly requiring repainting afterwards). The first and last of these methods would also require work by a bunch of guys in space suits to remove lumps and bumps which might damage the launch equipment.

You also need to consider the longer term effects of your bombardment – You’re presumably intending to occupy the planet after you’ve conquered it, so the time it took for the ecosystem to recover after the KT impact would be unacceptable, a more surgical strike is possible with more conventional weapons.

Finally... If, instead of using a kinetic impacter you use a projectile which includes a stored energy element (an explosive for example) then the energy you need to invest at the point of launch can be significantly reduced. The explosive yield adds to the kinetic yield, and with a ten or so grams of antimatter (held in a magnetic ‘bottle’ until impact) that could mean energy yields equivalent to millions of tonnes of TNT...

All in all, whether you’re The Imperium of Man, The United Federation of Planets, The Covenent, or a capsuleer supporting your DUST comrades; conventional weapons are significantly more valuable, more efficient, more effective and even cheaper than using mass drivers to pound it with asteroids.
On the other hand (as with the Centari bombing Narn back to the stone age) the dust, climate and other global effects of asteroid bombardment might have a beneficial morale effect if you’re willing to pay for it (but that’s a big bill, both in time and money).


You dont seem to comprehend just how big asteroids can get Twisted

No Worries

To mare
Advanced Technology
#15 - 2013-01-25 09:07:36 UTC
Freyya wrote:
Dude...RAILGUN...velocity of what, a couple thousand km/sec? Thats like a small asteroid impact WITH a payload added...

except something that fast and that small will never hit the ground?
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#16 - 2013-01-25 09:53:09 UTC
To mare wrote:
Freyya wrote:
Dude...RAILGUN...velocity of what, a couple thousand km/sec? Thats like a small asteroid impact WITH a payload added...

except something that fast and that small will never hit the ground?

Thermal plating or heat shield. Yes, it will hit the ground.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-01-25 10:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Quote:
1 kilometer per second:

If we drop the meteor from the edge of space, 100 kilometers up, it’ll punch through the atmosphere without slowing down too much and hit the ground moving about Mach 3—over a kilometer a second.

As it falls, it compresses the air in front of it. When the air is compressed, it heats it up. (This is the same thing that heats up spacecraft and meteors—actual air friction has little to do with that.) By the time it reaches the ground, the lower surface will have heated to over 500℃, which is enough to glow visibly.

When it hits the ground, two minutes after it was released, it makes a crater 300 meters across—the size of a school, shattering into fragments in the process.


Railguns aim to fire at 3km/s and can use shaped, shielded slugs. Also you can give the slugs a hellova lot more mass

No Worries

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#18 - 2013-01-25 11:32:23 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
am i the only one who doubts the destructive power of an orbital strike launched from a 125mm cannon? hint: WW2 artillery shells usually had 150-225mm caliber and their damage potential was not quite large enough to be seen from orbit....


A good nuke is roughly equivalent to couple of grams of antimatter when you compare the energy it releases. Now, replace it with few kg of it going at significant portion of the speed of light and in RL I would expect such setup to penetrate the outer layers of planet and make the said planet unhabitable for any higher lifeforms for good chunk of time as well - if we have to bring RL into this.

to answer the original question - as far as I understand from the FAQ only thing that matters is the number of guns firing atm. Damage mods, any tracking, optimal, falloff, etc effects are presumably ignored atm.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.