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[CSM] Begun, the Planning Wars Have... [UPDATED 01/28]

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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#101 - 2013-01-23 00:13:37 UTC
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#102 - 2013-01-23 00:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
multi posting fail

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#103 - 2013-01-23 00:14:17 UTC
Chirality Tisteloin wrote:

I'd be curious to know what came out of this?

I CAME!

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/215/068/96075%20-%20artist%253Ajohn_joseco%20celestia%20i_came%20luna%20Molestia%20pinkie_pie.png

Since we were arranging potential features in the various team pipelines I doubt we'll be able to go into what specific features went into our themes. And probably wont be able to say what theme CCP ultimately picks. I'm sure they'd prefer to do a proper dev blog about that.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Gelatine
EverBroke Geeks
#104 - 2013-01-23 04:23:10 UTC
Sadly I came across this thread too late to post my suggestion. Is it still worth sending my suggestion to CSM or Seagull for the winter release?
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-01-23 10:37:33 UTC
Chirality Tisteloin wrote:
I'd be curious to know what came out of this?
Or will you tell us only after next monday?

We submitted our themes over the weekend. Just a few minutes ago, we got a package of CCP themes (sort of "we'll show your ours if you show us yours"), and we're going to be ranking them and giving CCP Seagull some feedback that will hopefully help her decide on her final candidates.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Flamespar
WarRavens
#106 - 2013-01-23 11:04:55 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:

I went with Exploration and a broader theme of focus on the individual and their ability to express themselves + affect the game. That included being able to build a home but goes beyond it to other things, like supporting bottom-up alliance income and a few other nice things CCP had on the menu.


Omg. I think I just experienced a flicker of hope Big smile
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-01-28 19:28:32 UTC
Update: 01/28/13 Variations on a Theme

On Friday, January 18th, we sent our sample themes to CCP Seagull. In return, on January 23rd, CSM got a package of the themes created by CCP teams, performed a quick analysis of them, and sent her our recommendations.

While I can't go into any specifics, I found the CCP themes to be very interesting reading, and they gave me more insight into how people at CCP are addressing the new planning system.

Today, Monday the 28th, we had a followup meeting with CCP Seagull. She gave us a broad overview of the overall theme that had been decided upon, which the CSM members present strongly endorsed. Over the next week, CCP will be determining what set of features best fits the theme and is practical given time and resource constraints.

CSM will receive a package of materials on Friday related to CCP's initial prioritization decisions and will provide our trademark :48hour: turnaround on them.

Based on what has happened so far, I am cautiously optimistic that the new planning process is going to do a good job of ensuring that CCP does a better job of delivering an expansion with good "bang-for-buck" when it comes to pleasing the community.

Original blog post link: http://treborofthecsm.blogspot.com/2013/01/variations-on-theme.html

I also updated the first post with this info.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Niveuss Nye
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2013-01-30 06:19:52 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Update: 01/28/13 Variations on a Theme

On Friday, January 18th, we sent our sample themes to CCP Seagull. In return, on January 23rd, CSM got a package of the themes created by CCP teams, performed a quick analysis of them, and sent her our recommendations.

While I can't go into any specifics, I found the CCP themes to be very interesting reading, and they gave me more insight into how people at CCP are addressing the new planning system.

Today, Monday the 28th, we had a followup meeting with CCP Seagull. She gave us a broad overview of the overall theme that had been decided upon, which the CSM members present strongly endorsed. Over the next week, CCP will be determining what set of features best fits the theme and is practical given time and resource constraints.

CSM will receive a package of materials on Friday related to CCP's initial prioritization decisions and will provide our trademark :48hour: turnaround on them.

Based on what has happened so far, I am cautiously optimistic that the new planning process is going to do a good job of ensuring that CCP does a better job of delivering an expansion with good "bang-for-buck" when it comes to pleasing the community.

Original blog post link: http://treborofthecsm.blogspot.com/2013/01/variations-on-theme.html

I also updated the first post with this info.


Hmm... not so much a fan of all this "secrecy".

BUT - I assume if the CSM heard something terrible, they would speak up?

All I have to say is, so far, so good. But, I will be honest. While the space ship game is awesome, I kind of got attracted to this game due to eventual avatar activities so I can live out a complete fantasy as a star ship industrialist who fights minnies. No mentions of that for quite some time.

Other than that, game seems pretty fun. I feel sorry for the POS managers, though. Stations that can be walked in, fully destructable, and not so much as a pain that I can gamble my ill gotten gains in like Hans Solo and Lando Calrissian sounded pretty cool.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#109 - 2013-01-30 12:32:06 UTC
Although I do understand the need for a degree of secrecy. Many of their plans thus far could yet turn out to be unachievable and so they don't want to get our hopes up about certain features etc. Some of them may even seem bad on the face of things, but with a little glamming up will be well received, etc.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2013-01-30 12:47:41 UTC
CSM always pushes CCP to tell the community as much as possible, as soon as possible, and when they have locked down what they think they can deliver in the next expansion, we hope they'll release a devblog about it.

My opinion of the process is "so far, so good". What they are converging upon makes sense.

Or to put it another way, so far this has not happened.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#111 - 2013-01-30 12:59:19 UTC
^ Have you guys ever think about reverse NDA an issue though?

Kind of like how Two Step, opposed their stance on new POSs.

As in you don't tell the secrets about an issue CCP has come up with, but you still like the issue, and start pushing it or asking us for ideas and such, before the dev blog comes outs.

Well its not that bad, Karrde talked about exploration and such like that, which would be cool. But it seems some ideas could be shafted, and sucks having to wait for a Dev blog before it is known.

I don't want to give the impression that things are really bad, or so. But I am curious if Karrde would start releasing more exploration ideas, lets say before a dev blog came out on it. Not so much him discussing the CCP view or the secrets they invented. But if Karrde had more ideas, or lets say CCP wasn't taking it too seriously, if karrde would come back and start a thread on exploration, before CCP has stated a response.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2013-01-30 15:13:00 UTC
Let me give you a totally hypothetical example of the problems that come up.

Let's assume there is a feature that we think the community wants but that CCP has decided isn't doable, or isn't a high priority. Our attempts to get that decision re-evaluated have failed.

Now, one option open to us would be to start a discussion on the forums about the feature and how important it is, in the hopes that public opinion might sway CCP. That might help in the short term, with that issue, but it also might damage the CCP/CSM relationship in the longer term.

The decision to go public on such a thing, even obliquely, is therefore a judgment call -- and it can be a very difficult one.

Now factor in that no matter what a CSM members says, people are going to make inferences about it. They're going to "Kremlin Watch". So now there are second-order effects. EVE is indeed "Unexpected Consequences Online" -- and no doubt people will read stuff into this post that isn't really there Twisted

The CSM has slowly, and through great effort by many people in each CSM, built up a working relationship with CCP that is unlike anything else in the games industry. CCP is putting a lot of trust in us, and it would be foolish to throw that away lightly.

As for front-running devblogs, stealing the thunder of the devs (who are the ones sweating in the trenches doing the hard work) would be just plain rude.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#113 - 2013-01-30 17:30:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
Word from on high is there's no harm in telling you the broad theme has been picked and that it overlapped with several CSM submissions. The actually for-release feature set is still being discussed, but I think conceptually the next expansion will be something the community can really get excited about.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#114 - 2013-01-30 18:37:40 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Word from on high is there's no harm in telling you the broad theme has been picked and that it overlapped with several CSM submissions. The actually for-release feature set is still being discussed, but I think conceptually the next expansion will be something the community can really get excited about.


Too bad they didn't pick your Pony theme. I told you it was a long shot.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

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DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#115 - 2013-01-30 19:50:42 UTC
Some day when it is legal, Alek will really tell us what his pink pony theme is all about.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-01-31 03:57:24 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Some day when it is legal, Alek will really tell us what his pink pony theme is all about.

If you are very, very lucky, it will be NDA'd until the end of time -- or possibly longer.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#117 - 2013-01-31 05:30:31 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Word from on high is there's no harm in telling you the broad theme has been picked and that it overlapped with several CSM submissions. The actually for-release feature set is still being discussed, but I think conceptually the next expansion will be something the community can really get excited about.


Too bad they didn't pick your Pony theme. I told you it was a long shot.


Break NDA now, Or give me Darius's phone number, I know he would risk getting banned to tell us about CCP snuffing ponies.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#118 - 2013-01-31 05:37:31 UTC
I might get banned for this, but this is a sneak peak of EVE Online: Equestrian Age

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#119 - 2013-01-31 05:39:30 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Let me give you a totally hypothetical example of the problems that come up.

Let's assume there is a feature that we think the community wants but that CCP has decided isn't doable, or isn't a high priority. Our attempts to get that decision re-evaluated have failed.

Now, one option open to us would be to start a discussion on the forums about the feature and how important it is, in the hopes that public opinion might sway CCP. That might help in the short term, with that issue, but it also might damage the CCP/CSM relationship in the longer term.

The decision to go public on such a thing, even obliquely, is therefore a judgment call -- and it can be a very difficult one.

Now factor in that no matter what a CSM members says, people are going to make inferences about it. They're going to "Kremlin Watch". So now there are second-order effects. EVE is indeed "Unexpected Consequences Online" -- and no doubt people will read stuff into this post that isn't really there Twisted

The CSM has slowly, and through great effort by many people in each CSM, built up a working relationship with CCP that is unlike anything else in the games industry. CCP is putting a lot of trust in us, and it would be foolish to throw that away lightly.

As for front-running devblogs, stealing the thunder of the devs (who are the ones sweating in the trenches doing the hard work) would be just plain rude.


Sounds, almost like you will be running again then, with that attitude.

I suppose I do like trolling CCP too much as well, but its sooooo fun. That or I get cocked teased too much, and hard to come down in a peaceful way.

Besides I suppose the game can be rather large, so hard to hope for what I want happening.

I didn't mean to steal thunder as well, why I meant reverse NDA, thought it would help with that. Also it does seem hard to steal their thunder, with them creating prototypes and hiding them in closets and under desks, where no one can find them.

I think I am too use to CCP fozzie's format, where he waits for CCP seagull or CCP soundwave to fall asleep, then finds little used forums, to post his balancing threads. Giving players lots of head room and time for feedback. Just felt with the new ideas for the upcoming expansion, CCP will just sit on them for such a long time, when they do release it, there will be no time for further changes or so.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#120 - 2013-01-31 08:07:55 UTC
Dear CCP, please give Alekseyev a pony. Pretty please.

PS: Make it automatically be placed in any active ship he has so that there is always a chance it can be stol... I mean set free, to roam the stars.

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