EVE General Discussion

In other words, people would figure out a way to turn it into the new pre-nerf Incursions or pre-nerf Faction Warfare lol, with all it's game economy destroying isk fountaining.

People seem incapable of learning from the past it seems to me.

Don't trust anyone.

That's Eve rule #1. That's why I eventually became a solo player. I found out the hard way that, in fact, you really can't trust anyone.

Shrug...seems like a bit of a stupid moto for a supposedly multiplayer coop game.

I've been much happier since going solo though....been about four years now.

Who told you it was a "multiplayer coop game"?

CCP sure didn't.

Massively multiplayer online game says nothing about grouping. It means when I play, It'll be online; with other people.

I expet INTERACTION when I play an online game.

It says nothing about the CONTENT.


It's your choice to group or not in EVE. There isn't a single mechanic that makes it so you can't.

I think that is a little misleading. If you want to join an Incursion fleet you have to have a shiney ship, and fleet members who understand Eve terminology.

For instance: ' Vulture pilot, FC - E, seeks shield fleet'. The response? "Not enough DPS".

Doh.

Would be funny if all the characters posting in this thread were on subscriptions belonging to one single lurking player.

I did solo Eve for quite a long time. The thing to remember is that there's more social contact to Eve than being in a group. The majority of my contacts in Eve come from the days when I roamed all over New Eden and w-space at my whim, getting to know the locals through cooperation and combat.

What I find problematic is the vast numbers of players in NPC corps.

I have no issue with Solo play, even if I don't understand why you would want solo play in Eve. What I have an issue with is this = Usually people who solo play get angry if something bad happens to them. As an example:

I have an RL mate who I introduced to Eve. He has always been notorious for only playing single player games, and despite my best efforts decided that he would treat Eve as one also. He thinks that High sec is supposed to be totally safe and that scamming is the work of the devil.

About a year after he started up, he decides to drop money on a bunch of plex and fully faction fit a mission running apoc to the tune of 2 billion. He then goes and runs missions in the same spot for 2 or 3 months (closer to 3 I think). When he is running a mission someone warps in and steals some junk loot and goes flashy to him. He tries to kill that person, and loses his 2 billion isk ship in what I'm sure is someones glorious failmail.

20 mins later I receive a text that he thinks CCP is bad for allowing something like that to happen in a high sec system and that he shouldn't have lost his ship. He rages for a long time about this and loses several other ships in ways that he shouldn't (jumping to lowsec in machs and poorly fitting ships). Then just after Retribution is released he loses a faction navy omen by shooting the wreckage of something I had shot (and therefore owned). He had set his safety to red, and then proceeds to blame CCP for allowing his ship to get destroyed.

I'm not saying that all solo players are bad. In fact I'm pretty sure that the silent majority really help the game (your red frog truckers and the solo indy setups out there), but the vocal minority who feel so entitled that they rage at things that are quite frankly their fault and wouldn't happen if they took the time to learn about the game, and learn the lesson that in this massively multi-player game, there are other players who want to harm you and there are steps you need to take to not fall victim to them. However if you fail to learn that, then don't whine about it on the forums or in local. Pick up the pieces and move on. Eve is a fantastically unforgiving game and for most people that's what they enjoy about it, what drew them into Eve. Don't let that end because you died a few times and can't handle it.



This is pretty much my point.

What I got is that they've noticed that without the 1,000 dudes paying the bills, you and CCP would be FUBAR.

There would not be architects without 100 someones laying the bricks and pouring the concrete, and there would not be100 someones laying bricks without 10,000 no-ones buying the damn houses.

EVE is quite focused on "successful" players, but in doing so it neglects that many players just are "losers" and nobody pays 15 € per month to be a "loser" in a game. (Success= find the viable gameplay venues, like good corps/good mechanics and fail= get stuck in not viable gameplay venues like wrong corps/wrong mechanics)

In my words, it's the "politically incorrect" players who play the "wrong way" the ones who keep the show running. And so far, CCP has neglected them, treating them like expendable assets, until their numbers have begun to shrink.

I agree both with Alekseyev (a person I really admire) and Ishtanchuk.

I'd like to expand on the "make the loser feel like a winner" bit.

In RL, the hugest majority of people are modest guys who are given a lot of "winner taste and feel" to keep their mind away from the simple fact they are being sucked dry by taxes going to pay somebody else's luxury yacht and cheap women.
They work all their life, they are "sentenced to work 8h a day for 35+ years" for a very moderate wage (sometimes in a job they don't like) while others, "the instigators" and other guys bring in their ideas and basically do what they love and are paid orders of magnitude higher.
One of the great "top RL players" / dominating class ideas has been to slowly spread a nice, numbing attitude that make the poorer folk feel happy and succesful when they work for this low wage and spend their lifetime as a second class category: they can still get an house, form a family, watch / play sports...
... as a Goon leader would say, they get the "farmlands" and are happy. The (RL and EvE) overlords bask in glory and money.
The whole world goes around like that.

Now, the genius who planned the Activision era WoW, was a good sociologist.
Whereas the first WoW was excellent and more free form and catered to succesful, dedicated gameplay players, instigators etc. etc. the game designers noticed it topped at 550,000 players.

WoW being bought by a mainstream mentality corporation, the new owners (they put new designers too) wanted to increase this number.
In order to do so, they just copied RL, something EvE does quite well in many respects but not all.
Therefore WoW planners introduced the RL "feeling of success for everybody" into the game.
Even the worst loser, the crap player could feel happy and succeeded. He perma-loses? He still gets welfare gear and welfare points. The end result is still the same, he's still the rock bottom but hey, HE GETS BLING!
No matter he will never stand a chance, he still gets his poor man's gadget to show. He grows attached to the one game that makes him feel a winner, he pays his sub.

Same for the casual players: they get affordably short to play achievements, they get their little niche of fun and happiness.

This is where EvE has grandiously failed: at not understanding how human mentality works. EvE is stuck at the previous "pro gamer" era.
The reward? The good players win, and win hard.
The price? Low player base, stay a niche game.


In fact, if you look at some EvE phenomenons with RL eyes it's easier to understand them.

Why, WHY the miners? Why the solo L4 players?

They are the two EvE features that give "bling" to even the poorest or time constrained players.
Even if both mining and missioning are so p!ss poorly implemented, they are the STAPLE of EvE, because the large majority IS made of "common folk".
This is also why CCP are always so prudent at implementing features that kick those "commoneers" in the jewels. Because you can't have a game purely populated by lions, you also need the gazelles. Look at how goot it worked the "all lions" model for low sec.


What the EvE "Lions" don't understand, is that by giving crutches, poor man's blings to those commoneers is NOT going to unfairly and negatively affect them. It's going to make the gazelles more and happier to the slaughter and exploitation...

... like it happens in RL.

and why wouldn't you? for example, when you're mining, if every account had a person behind it, rather than one person with multiple accounts, the orca pilot is going to be suicidal, or afk. all he has to do is move ore every couple of mins at most, he honestly isn't interacting with the game at all.

what's worse; one guy on his own with 5 accounts mining all day and interacting with nobody, or forcing a style of gameplay on someone where there's no real gameplay or interaction to be had?

edit: i say no real interaction because other players is putting ore in to your corp hangar is exactly the same as waiting for strips to finish and put ore in your ore bay.