Ships & Modules

To be fair, calling the nighthawk obsolete is a bit of an understatement...

It's easily been the worst field command for 6+ years with bad developers stating it's fine (even after drake implementation)

zzzzzzz, epic fail on my part.

About the nighthawk tho, it's just bad...

if we are talking pvp, there is nothing a nightmare can do that a machariel or a cheap amarr battlesip can't do better.

Mm... i both agree and disagree.

They are still popular out of WH space too.

Though the question is if they should be. There's obviously an incentive for them in WH space with the mass limitations. At the same time the ship grew popular in a low-Capital environment with Battleship support. The issue is that you don't need that many Capitals before the pressure on either the Bhaal or it's Triage become significant. Not to the point that the concept of out-tanking your opponent under cap-pressure completely falls flat on it's backside, but you don't need more than two Dreads to meet cap-pressure with more than equivalent damage-pressure. That means you want hostile Caps on field for the Bhaal to shine, but you don't want too many - and the margin can be very thin depending on opponent.

That also means that a major reason for the continued use of Bhaals is a question of experience, skillpoints or (wavering-) execution of damage application - that enable the use of Bhaals against slightly larger numbers of Capitals when opponents may not be focused, heat-managing well or use proper tools. Two Moros are afterall capable of ~280k damage in 5s (~70k volley). Wether you can trickle one or two capitals into a WH can be the deciding factor, which also means that even though there's incentive for the use of Bhaals in mass-limited WH space on principle, i'd belive that higher order clashes in WH also are trending away from it. As always, what is popular and what is possible are two different things.

Hmmmmm.... I agree that it's possible to blap a Bhaalgorn. I just don't know if that's problematic in a wormhole. The mass (and people!) limitations tends to mean that every warm body you can bring is that much more important, so the Bhaal is naturally superior to all other neutralization ships.

It feels to me like WH dread blapping is a lynch pin setup with Vigils (or similar) and Vindis being required for the Moros to function. Normally I would say this is solvable by killing the lynch pins... I'm just not sure how practical that really is given how extreme the disparity in hulls and people can be. I guess if I had to EFT Warrior up a counter it'd be Halo/X Neut Legions with stacked Kin/Thm resists. The tactic may work with Bhaals or Fleet Phoons as well - but the Legion should be significantly harder to hit. Really, that's not a style of combat that I feel qualified to talk about - I've never engaged in it because C5/C6 combat feels a bit blobby for me. I was simply reporting that they are in fact popular in WH space.

However, the Bhaal remains quite powerful in lower class wormholes - both for the traditional zomgwtfneut and for cap killing if you can find someone that's really invested in their hole.

-Liang

Wrong way round ask what a Nightmare can do better?... Shield tank... fit tach's... cost more