Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Another comment on speeding up reppers:

1) as long as there is a fixed maximum conversion rate between cap and armor points, there will be a limit to how powerful these things become (measured in cap). In general that is an interesting mechanism.
Making active Armor Tanking viable for PVP.
Maybe Energy Transfer will play a greater role.
Neuts aswell as they effectively kill armor.

2) I am a bit worried about the addition of more and more Skills that do not come cheap.
While it's a good thing to have more things to train for veterans and it emphasizes specialization, I feel like recently added skills are a bit too narrow and expensive. Compare things like Armor Upgrades, Target Spectrum Breaker Amplification and Radar Sensor Compensation to Skills like Engineering and Navigation regarding usefulness.
Ok, the Sensor Compensation skills could be healed by turning Sensor Strength into general E-War resists. Anyway. Off topic.

3) Heat. I believe the effect of heat in overheating a tremendously accelerated repper decreases.
Cycles become so short that cap will always run out or become the critical issue long before heat even starts building up.

Not entirely correct. If some effect like the proposed rigs allow to GREATLY accelerate reppers, you might find a single repper sufficient.
This also affects slots and PG usage.
The only remaining issue is cap.
But there is always a catch, isn't it?

Well a skill to reduce cap usage would be nice.

Its funny how i go for a **** then go get another beer and in that time we are onto a new page

I was planning on playing eve today, now im way more enthralled by this fourm.

I'm not taken by the AAR proposal, or the direction in general that this patch is proposing. Armour and Shield tanking should be built around different mechanisms to enrich the game. Making armour tanking work more like shield tanking is far too homogenising for my liking (and I feel there's something of a trend developing towards this with the recent rebalancing).

Rather than making armour tanking into a slightly different flavour of shield tanking, why not focus on a different set of strengths and weaknesses to keep it distinct.

Active shield tanks have great burst ability, particularly with ASBs, but the trade-off is that it's relatively short-lived. Active armour tanks should be durable, resilient and efficient, offering more hp the longer a fight progresses. I believe the balance could be redressed in a more enriching way by further embracing the Reactive Armour Hardener:

-RAH should be balanced to provide, on average, more ehp/s per GJ than a second repper (if that's possible).

-New named T1 variants with lower fitting and/or cap requirements than the meta 0 mod, but the same resistance pool. Easier for smaller ships to fit and use.

-New T2 RAH with a larger resistance pool; it could have a longer spool-up time, and/or greater cap/cpu requirements. This would be targetted at cruiser-sized ships and larger (less efficient than a second small repper but more than a medium/large perhaps?)

-Change the resistance shifting from linear growth to logarithmic - giving a quick initial shift, then tailing off the longer it is active. This would give some countering ability to changing incoming damage patterns (by resetting the RAH and getting a quick initial resistance shift).

-Edit: Also what Omnathious Deninard said below (#415).

Possible effects would be more viable single repper, or repper + smaller plate setups (more mobile, and less cap-hungry options than we currently have). Knowing when to reset the RAH would be a vital skill in active armour tanking, and a range of new tactics would need to be devised to overcome this kind of tanking. This should open the door to a lot of fights going initially against the armour tanker before slowly being clawed back into their favour (or not ofc.)

TL;DR Leave burst tanking to shield tanks, focus on the durability aspect of armour tanking to keep it distinct. Use the RAH to achieve this rather than adding another new mod.

All of which has absolutely nothing to do with shield ships having so much sig radus.

I am sure that the reason that power blocs are changing there doctrines not because the Tengu is shield tanked instead of armor tanked it is more to do with the nerf to HML's.

Reposting in a way that is hopefully better understood.


@Fozzie: a system where the same armor plates, shield extenders and shield boosters are used across multiple ship classes is just a bad system that makes it hard to balance things. You have almost no flexibility to adjust things.

Consider a system where each ship class gets real choice between two armor plates, two shield extenders, and cannot oversize its shield boosters.

It could look like this:

"Reinforced Frigate Armor Plating"
"Frigate Armor Plating"

"Reinforced Frigate Shield Extender"
"Frigate Shield Extender"

"Frigate Armor Repairer"
"Frigate Shield Booster"

"Frigate Ancillary Armor Repairer"
"Frigate Ancillary Shield Booster"



Repeat this series for all ship classes (including destroyers and battlecruisers) and suddenly many balance problems would be easy to address.

The 1600mm is too fat on cruisers? Change the "Reinforced Cruiser Armor Plating" without having to worry about affecting battlecruisers and battleships these have their own version called "Reinforced Battlecruiser Armor Plating" and "Reinforced Battleship Armor Plating".

Cruisers must fit 1600mm plate to be competitive because the 800mm plate is too bad? Change whatever you want on the cruiser modules without concern for affecting the larger ships.

Oversized shield tanking too good and not-oversized shield tanking too bad? No problem since oversizing isn't allowed. Simply make the cruiser shield tanking module as good as it has to be.

50mm plates and micro shield extenders are pointless? They don't even exist in the new system.

etc.

Please tell me how is 350 more grid per LAR II (if you fit 3 tank rigs) "tiny"? And that is with rigging 5.

350 pg? I see the penalty as 10% of rep pg per rig, so with 3 rigs the pg for a t2 LAR goes

2300 > +1 rig = 2530 > + 2nd rig = 2783 > + 3rd rig = 3061.3

That's an increase of 761.3 pg

For a centus x-type;

2800 > 3080 > 3388 > 3726.8

That's an increase of 926.8 pg

This is how all the rigs work currently, the bonuses and penalties are multiplicative, not additive

It's one thing to quote figures for an incursus with a single small rep but this penalty scales horrifically.

Decoupling active tanking from capacitor use was a huge giant massive clusterfuck of a mistake, not a "fix".

-Liang