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Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2013-01-22 06:19:16 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Okay but we aren't just talking about missions. See that is the problem with most players who have poasted in this thread, I am talking about NPC's not just mission NPCs, belt ratter,plexers, incursions all of it!


It would ahve the same results on these stuff too. Your incursion point would complete faster but you would get less for it resulting on more time spend preparing the fleet/warping to location. The belt rat would die faster for a lesser income but you would spend more time warping from belt to belt looking for new spawn thus lowering your ISK gain again.

The eld result of faster dieing NPC ship is only more wasted time looking for more NPC to kill for them same total ISK required to replace whatever ship you lost in PvP.

Yeah so what do you have against warping around? if you dont like warping go mine or something where you can stay parked and click. As regards to PVE, EVE is very similar to other MMOs in that their PVE content is tedious. Heck it might be worse because its the only flow of isk into the game. NPCs need to have their EHPs nerfed so EVE can be less tedious.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2013-01-22 06:24:28 UTC
terzho wrote:


Yes but what you're saying is that shooting NPC's make it not fun and your solution is to make shooting NPC's faster so you can do something that is fun.

So why don't you do something that is fun instead?

Something you don't find enjoyable won't suddenly become enjoyable by suddenly making it over quicker.

How do you know? I'm telling you that it would make it more fun to me.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-01-22 06:24:47 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Okay but we aren't just talking about missions. See that is the problem with most players who have poasted in this thread, I am talking about NPC's not just mission NPCs, belt ratter,plexers, incursions all of it!


It would ahve the same results on these stuff too. Your incursion point would complete faster but you would get less for it resulting on more time spend preparing the fleet/warping to location. The belt rat would die faster for a lesser income but you would spend more time warping from belt to belt looking for new spawn thus lowering your ISK gain again.

The eld result of faster dieing NPC ship is only more wasted time looking for more NPC to kill for them same total ISK required to replace whatever ship you lost in PvP.

Yeah so what do you have against warping around? if you dont like warping go mine or something where you can stay parked and click. As regards to PVE, EVE is very similar to other MMOs in that their PVE content is tedious. Heck it might be worse because its the only flow of isk into the game. NPCs need to have their EHPs nerfed so EVE can be less tedious.


If the NPC ship EHP was reduced to 10% of what it is now, it would not be any less tendious. Thats what you fail to understand. You would only have to shoot even more red crosses and unless they made the spawn in mission/belt/incursion spot more numerous, you would ahve to hunt for such spawn even more often with a change like that making it even more tendious.

Quote:
Heck it might be worse because its the only flow of isk into the game.


This prove that you need to learn more about the game. There are more way to get ISK than to shoot red crosses. Go learn about them and maybe you won't have to do the PvE grind you find so tendious...
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2013-01-22 06:25:34 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

NPCs exist outside of high sec. Matter of fact they exist all through out the EVE universe.

Less EHP on NPCs means more clicks more explosions and more time to do other things in EVE.

NPCs are already "Push button get isk", but that is the game design. TBH you don't know why CCP has the EHP up so high, you guess that it is to slow players down, if that is the case what is their reason for it?

You make a lot of assumptions.

Whats wrong with players getting their isk and going on to other more fun parts of EVE?


I already explained in another post that you can freely replace "mission" with "PLEX/Belt Rat/etc"

So your entire reasoning is that you want CCP to give you more ISK per hour, correct?

NPCs are "Push Button > Wait > Get ISK." That "Wait" is actually important.

Because EVE already has too many sources of inflationary pressure. Making them bigger doesn't improve anything.


Free markets can handle inflation just fine.
Kestrix
The Whispering
#105 - 2013-01-22 06:29:56 UTC
Npc's in my opinion don't last long enough. Just stick with it until you have trained up enough skill points and have a well fitted faction battleship and you'll find yourself going through them like a knife through hot butter.

I've found that it's easier to fit ships for WH space, T1 battleships + a basic T2 fitting is all that's required. It's down more to team work than individual skills and fittings.

Also make NPC ships easier to kill would bring the need for there value to be dropped in proportion to their EHP. Next you'd be on here complaining that your having to kill twice the number of ships to get the same ISK.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-01-22 06:30:26 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

NPCs exist outside of high sec. Matter of fact they exist all through out the EVE universe.

Less EHP on NPCs means more clicks more explosions and more time to do other things in EVE.

NPCs are already "Push button get isk", but that is the game design. TBH you don't know why CCP has the EHP up so high, you guess that it is to slow players down, if that is the case what is their reason for it?

You make a lot of assumptions.

Whats wrong with players getting their isk and going on to other more fun parts of EVE?


I already explained in another post that you can freely replace "mission" with "PLEX/Belt Rat/etc"

So your entire reasoning is that you want CCP to give you more ISK per hour, correct?

NPCs are "Push Button > Wait > Get ISK." That "Wait" is actually important.

Because EVE already has too many sources of inflationary pressure. Making them bigger doesn't improve anything.


Free markets can handle inflation just fine.


It does not handle it at all. The only way to handle inflation is to create more isk faucet to eliminate ISK from the game.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2013-01-22 06:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Okay but we aren't just talking about missions. See that is the problem with most players who have poasted in this thread, I am talking about NPC's not just mission NPCs, belt ratter,plexers, incursions all of it!


It would ahve the same results on these stuff too. Your incursion point would complete faster but you would get less for it resulting on more time spend preparing the fleet/warping to location. The belt rat would die faster for a lesser income but you would spend more time warping from belt to belt looking for new spawn thus lowering your ISK gain again.

The eld result of faster dieing NPC ship is only more wasted time looking for more NPC to kill for them same total ISK required to replace whatever ship you lost in PvP.

Yeah so what do you have against warping around? if you dont like warping go mine or something where you can stay parked and click. As regards to PVE, EVE is very similar to other MMOs in that their PVE content is tedious. Heck it might be worse because its the only flow of isk into the game. NPCs need to have their EHPs nerfed so EVE can be less tedious.


If the NPC ship EHP was reduced to 10% of what it is now, it would not be any less tendious. Thats what you fail to understand. You would only have to shoot even more red crosses and unless they made the spawn in mission/belt/incursion spot more numerous, you would ahve to hunt for such spawn even more often with a change like that making it even more tendious.

Quote:
Heck it might be worse because its the only flow of isk into the game.


This prove that you need to learn more about the game. There are more way to get ISK than to shoot red crosses. Go learn about them and maybe you won't have to do the PvE grind you find so tendious...

Well that was more of your idea. I can see why you don't like it. Maybe CCP should just reduce EHP by 20% and forget adding or reducing anything else.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#108 - 2013-01-22 06:33:37 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Free markets can handle inflation just fine.


Not really, but they do respond to it by increasing prices, meaning that it does nothing to help achieve your goal:

Aza Ebanu wrote:
more time to do other things in EVE.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2013-01-22 06:34:50 UTC
Kestrix wrote:
Npc's in my opinion don't last long enough. Just stick with it until you have trained up enough skill points and have a well fitted faction battleship and you'll find yourself going through them like a knife through hot butter.

I've found that it's easier to fit ships for WH space, T1 battleships + a basic T2 fitting is all that's required. It's down more to team work than individual skills and fittings.

Also make NPC ships easier to kill would bring the need for there value to be dropped in proportion to their EHP. Next you'd be on here complaining that your having to kill twice the number of ships to get the same ISK.


Why? Inflation won't kill the EVE market.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#110 - 2013-01-22 06:35:24 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Well that was more of your idea. I can see why you don't like it. Maybe CCP should just reduce EHP by 20% and forget adding or reducing anything else.


The rapid inflation caused by everybody and thier mother running to go kill more easy rats would mean you would ahve to spend just as much time after a little while because inflation would of made the price of everything go up.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2013-01-22 06:35:32 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

NPCs exist outside of high sec. Matter of fact they exist all through out the EVE universe.

Less EHP on NPCs means more clicks more explosions and more time to do other things in EVE.

NPCs are already "Push button get isk", but that is the game design. TBH you don't know why CCP has the EHP up so high, you guess that it is to slow players down, if that is the case what is their reason for it?

You make a lot of assumptions.

Whats wrong with players getting their isk and going on to other more fun parts of EVE?


I already explained in another post that you can freely replace "mission" with "PLEX/Belt Rat/etc"

So your entire reasoning is that you want CCP to give you more ISK per hour, correct?

NPCs are "Push Button > Wait > Get ISK." That "Wait" is actually important.

Because EVE already has too many sources of inflationary pressure. Making them bigger doesn't improve anything.


Free markets can handle inflation just fine.


It does not handle it at all. The only way to handle inflation is to create more isk faucet to eliminate ISK from the game.

What?
terzho
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-01-22 06:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: terzho
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Okay but we aren't just talking about missions. See that is the problem with most players who have poasted in this thread, I am talking about NPC's not just mission NPCs, belt ratter,plexers, incursions all of it!


It would ahve the same results on these stuff too. Your incursion point would complete faster but you would get less for it resulting on more time spend preparing the fleet/warping to location. The belt rat would die faster for a lesser income but you would spend more time warping from belt to belt looking for new spawn thus lowering your ISK gain again.

The eld result of faster dieing NPC ship is only more wasted time looking for more NPC to kill for them same total ISK required to replace whatever ship you lost in PvP.

Yeah so what do you have against warping around? if you dont like warping go mine or something where you can stay parked and click. As regards to PVE, EVE is very similar to other MMOs in that their PVE content is tedious. Heck it might be worse because its the only flow of isk into the game. NPCs need to have their EHPs nerfed so EVE can be less tedious.







So now you just want to make pve easier to improve your isk/hr yes? This once again leads to the problem of inflation.

Also the reasons you have stated so far have been.

"To make it more fun"- I don't see how it makes it more fun. I mean if you like pve so much wouldn't you want to shoot NPC's longer?
Unless of course it's for your second argument
"So you can do other stuff that is fun"- This contradicts with your first argument and reveals that you just don't like PVE and the actual reason is just a higher isk/hr for less effort.
Then there is the final reason of
"It's double the hull ehp"- yeah, aren't most ships that are tanked in anyway have a ehp that's double the hull value?

So please state the actual reason you want NPC's nerfed and stop bullshitting us.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2013-01-22 06:39:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Well that was more of your idea. I can see why you don't like it. Maybe CCP should just reduce EHP by 20% and forget adding or reducing anything else.


The rapid inflation caused by everybody and thier mother running to go kill more easy rats would mean you would ahve to spend just as much time after a little while because inflation would of made the price of everything go up.


You just said you prefer mining to hunting NPCs. So not everyone would be running to do missions, plexes, incursions etc...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#114 - 2013-01-22 06:40:07 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:


Free markets can handle inflation just fine.


It does not handle it at all. The only way to handle inflation is to create more isk faucet to eliminate ISK from the game.

What?


Inflation is not handled by the market. Inflation make the market prices go up meanign you need to burn more time doing PvE ginding instead of whatever else you want to do. Making ship be killed faster only fuel the fire of inflation which mean you will end up grinding even more ISK.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2013-01-22 06:41:37 UTC
terzho wrote:



So now you just want to make pve easier to improve your isk/hr yes? This once again leads to the problem of inflation.

Also the reasons you have stated so far have been.

"To make it more fun"- I don't see how it makes it more fun. I mean if you like pve so much wouldn't you want to shoot NPC's longer?
Unless of course it's for your second argument
"So you can do other stuff that is fun"- This contradicts with your first argument and reveals that you just don't like PVE and the actual reason is just a higher isk/hr for less effort.
Then there is the final reason of
"It's double the hull ehp"- yeah, aren't most ships that are tanked in anyway have a ehp that's double the hull value?

So please state the actual reason you want NPC's nerfed and stop bullshitting us.


TL;DR

Inflation in EVE is already going on and it has nothing to do with the income from NPCs.
terzho
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2013-01-22 06:42:53 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Well that was more of your idea. I can see why you don't like it. Maybe CCP should just reduce EHP by 20% and forget adding or reducing anything else.


The rapid inflation caused by everybody and thier mother running to go kill more easy rats would mean you would ahve to spend just as much time after a little while because inflation would of made the price of everything go up.


You just said you prefer mining to hunting NPCs. So not everyone would be running to do missions, plexes, incursions etc...


Yes but those that do will gain more isk for less effort meaning that overall there will be more isk injected into the game and circulating around which leads to inflation.

Your "Market will handle it fine" shows your lack of understanding.
The only way to lower inflation is to balance it out with "Isk sinks" so isk leaves the economy which your change doesn't include.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2013-01-22 06:42:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:


Free markets can handle inflation just fine.


It does not handle it at all. The only way to handle inflation is to create more isk faucet to eliminate ISK from the game.

What?


Inflation is not handled by the market. Inflation make the market prices go up meanign you need to burn more time doing PvE ginding instead of whatever else you want to do. Making ship be killed faster only fuel the fire of inflation which mean you will end up grinding even more ISK.


Inflation doesn't come from NPCs though. Reducing NPC EHP has nothing to do with inflation anyways.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2013-01-22 06:44:14 UTC
terzho wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Well that was more of your idea. I can see why you don't like it. Maybe CCP should just reduce EHP by 20% and forget adding or reducing anything else.


The rapid inflation caused by everybody and thier mother running to go kill more easy rats would mean you would ahve to spend just as much time after a little while because inflation would of made the price of everything go up.


You just said you prefer mining to hunting NPCs. So not everyone would be running to do missions, plexes, incursions etc...


Yes but those that do will gain more isk for less effort meaning that overall there will be more isk injected into the game and circulating around which leads to inflation.

Your "Market will handle it fine" shows your lack of understanding.
The only way to lower inflation is to balance it out with "Isk sinks" so isk leaves the economy which your change doesn't include.


Not really the QEN when they were regular showed that income from missions had no direct correlation on inflation, but mineral prices did..... Weird huh?
terzho
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-01-22 06:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: terzho
Aza Ebanu wrote:
terzho wrote:



So now you just want to make pve easier to improve your isk/hr yes? This once again leads to the problem of inflation.

Also the reasons you have stated so far have been.

"To make it more fun"- I don't see how it makes it more fun. I mean if you like pve so much wouldn't you want to shoot NPC's longer?
Unless of course it's for your second argument
"So you can do other stuff that is fun"- This contradicts with your first argument and reveals that you just don't like PVE and the actual reason is just a higher isk/hr for less effort.
Then there is the final reason of
"It's double the hull ehp"- yeah, aren't most ships that are tanked in anyway have a ehp that's double the hull value?

So please state the actual reason you want NPC's nerfed and stop bullshitting us.


TL;DR

Inflation in EVE is already going on and it has nothing to do with the income from NPCs.


Are you freaking serious? NPC bounties are one of the main isk faucets so allowing people to kill NPC's faster would obviously lead to more isk entering the economy. Also that is not the TL;DR. I just listed why your reasons for nerfing NPC's are bad and asked you to restate proper reasons why you wanted NPC's nerfed which you did not do.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#120 - 2013-01-22 06:45:01 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Well that was more of your idea. I can see why you don't like it. Maybe CCP should just reduce EHP by 20% and forget adding or reducing anything else.


The rapid inflation caused by everybody and thier mother running to go kill more easy rats would mean you would ahve to spend just as much time after a little while because inflation would of made the price of everything go up.


You just said you prefer mining to hunting NPCs. So not everyone would be running to do missions, plexes, incursions etc...


If you drive inflation up enough, everybody with common sense would turn to mining because it's the only grinding profession where all your income follow the inflation right? Your minerals will always follow the rise of inflation while the static income of missions/incursion and ratting will slowly but surely become less and less efficient?

If you want the shooting of red cross to be an efficient and fast way to gain isk, makign it easyer to do it not the solution.