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It is time.

Author
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-01-22 05:41:06 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I dont know I did a search and no one has ever brought this up to the CSM before, but I am sure a lot of players would want this, and there is no good reason why CCP shouldn't lower NPC EHP.


A lot of player want a lot of stupid things but that does not mean it should happen.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#82 - 2013-01-22 05:43:26 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its too high because the hit points a more than 2x the amount of the hull they are based off of.

Or less than a quarter of the EHP of the hull they're based off of, depending on how it's fit. You think the NPCs are riding around in unfit ships here?

Quote:
The gain for most EVE players who engage in PVE is a more fun player experience, less tedium when participating PVE activities. Is there any good reason why NPCs have so many EHPs? I wouldn't mind a dev chiming in with their position on the topic.
You ask Why less EHP, I ask you why not?


So you want to make more money running missions in perfect safety in HS. How about no.

In what way is shooting twice as many red crosses in an hour less tedious than shooting the current number? Aside from you wanting a higher income for the same amount of time spent running risk free missions.

Why not?
Using your reasoning:
Because they have less than a quarter of the EHP of the hull they're based off of.

Secondly, because Mission running does not need a giant income buff.


Once again, the EHP is there to slow the rate at which you can make money. If it weren't there, missions would simply be "Push Button > get ISK."

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2013-01-22 05:45:31 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I dont know I did a search and no one has ever brought this up to the CSM before, but I am sure a lot of players would want this, and there is no good reason why CCP shouldn't lower NPC EHP.


A lot of player want a lot of stupid things but that does not mean it should happen.

True, but this isn't stupid. Its something the devs should have done long time ago. And since you can't find a good reason why CCP shouldn't I think that is a pretty good reason they should. Or would you NERDRAGEQUIT!!!! if they did this?
Flakey Foont
#84 - 2013-01-22 05:46:44 UTC
Is this supposed to be clever?
Altered Ego
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-01-22 05:47:21 UTC
It's time ... to nerf whine.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#86 - 2013-01-22 05:49:09 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Prophecy base EHP ~ 17k Imperial Templar Justicar EHP ~ 34k
Prophecy PVE tanked ~ 19k

Without taking pilot's skill into account it is clear that NPCs have more tank than needed a 15-20% reduction in NPC EHP is not asking too much really.


I, too, commonly fly my ships unfit into combat.

Quality of trolls gets worse every day I swear.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-01-22 05:50:17 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I dont know I did a search and no one has ever brought this up to the CSM before, but I am sure a lot of players would want this, and there is no good reason why CCP shouldn't lower NPC EHP.


A lot of player want a lot of stupid things but that does not mean it should happen.

True, but this isn't stupid. Its something the devs should have done long time ago. And since you can't find a good reason why CCP shouldn't I think that is a pretty good reason they should. Or would you NERDRAGEQUIT!!!! if they did this?


I would not ragequit if they lowered the EHP of NPC ship jsut as I would not ragequit if they prevented people from using weapons on other player in high sec. Both idea are still extremely stupid and unneeded.

RubyPorto wrote:



Once again, the EHP is there to slow the rate at which you can make money. If it weren't there, missions would simply be "Push Button > get ISK."


This is the reason why NPC ship have the amount of EHP they currently do. It's intended by CCP as part of the content that you will need to spend time killing NPC stuff. Working as intended. If they changed the EHP of ships, they would have to rebalance all rewards related to NPC shooting which would have exactly 0 effect on your income in the end except making most missiong more easy to run as you would need less sustained tank to stand against enemies exploding faster.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2013-01-22 05:50:39 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
So you want to make more money running missions in perfect safety in HS. How about no.

In what way is shooting twice as many red crosses in an hour less tedious than shooting the current number? Aside from you wanting a higher income for the same amount of time spent running risk free missions.

Why not?
Using your reasoning:
Because they have less than a quarter of the EHP of the hull they're based off of.

Secondly, because Mission running does not need a giant income buff.


Once again, the EHP is there to slow the rate at which you can make money. If it weren't there, missions would simply be "Push Button > get ISK."

Pushing button in highsec is really painful and risky at best !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-01-22 05:52:41 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
So you want to make more money running missions in perfect safety in HS. How about no.

In what way is shooting twice as many red crosses in an hour less tedious than shooting the current number? Aside from you wanting a higher income for the same amount of time spent running risk free missions.

Why not?
Using your reasoning:
Because they have less than a quarter of the EHP of the hull they're based off of.

Secondly, because Mission running does not need a giant income buff.


Once again, the EHP is there to slow the rate at which you can make money. If it weren't there, missions would simply be "Push Button > get ISK."

Pushing button in highsec is really painful and risky at best !


To mine ice, I have to like hold control, then I need to click on the ice. A stupid useless time then goes down to 0 before I have to push both F1 and F2. I mean come on! Can't we streamline that a bit more please. I have other things to do beside this...
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2013-01-22 05:53:56 UTC
The only reason for NPC to have less EHP OP provided is that NPC should have less EHP. Reminds me of that guy who was arguing that Hulk needs larger ore bay because Hulk needs larger ore bay.
In other words, very conviencing.

What OP doesn't get though that ISK can't be magically converted into goods. Faster NPC killing won't make miners mine faster and industrialists - to produce faster. You won't spend less time PvEing and more PvPing after such change, you will just have to kill much more of those weaker NPCs to get more ISK that will worth less. But maybe you will get cheaper faction ammo What?

Finally, OP should read latest devblog on CCP's plans on missions.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2013-01-22 05:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its too high because the hit points a more than 2x the amount of the hull they are based off of.

Or less than a quarter of the EHP of the hull they're based off of, depending on how it's fit. You think the NPCs are riding around in unfit ships here?

Quote:
The gain for most EVE players who engage in PVE is a more fun player experience, less tedium when participating PVE activities. Is there any good reason why NPCs have so many EHPs? I wouldn't mind a dev chiming in with their position on the topic.
You ask Why less EHP, I ask you why not?


So you want to make more money running missions in perfect safety in HS. How about no.

In what way is shooting twice as many red crosses in an hour less tedious than shooting the current number? Aside from you wanting a higher income for the same amount of time spent running risk free missions.

Why not?
Using your reasoning:
Because they have less than a quarter of the EHP of the hull they're based off of.

Secondly, because Mission running does not need a giant income buff.


Once again, the EHP is there to slow the rate at which you can make money. If it weren't there, missions would simply be "Push Button > get ISK."

NPCs exist outside of high sec. Matter of fact they exist all through out the EVE universe.

Less EHP on NPCs means more clicks more explosions and more time to do other things in EVE.

NPCs are already "Push button get isk", but that is the game design. TBH you don't know why CCP has the EHP up so high, you guess that it is to slow players down, if that is the case what is their reason for it?

You make a lot of assumptions.

Whats wrong with players getting their isk and going on to other more fun parts of EVE?
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2013-01-22 05:55:38 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I dont know I did a search and no one has ever brought this up to the CSM before, but I am sure a lot of players would want this, and there is no good reason why CCP shouldn't lower NPC EHP.


A lot of player want a lot of stupid things but that does not mean it should happen.

True, but this isn't stupid. Its something the devs should have done long time ago. And since you can't find a good reason why CCP shouldn't I think that is a pretty good reason they should. Or would you NERDRAGEQUIT!!!! if they did this?


I would not ragequit if they lowered the EHP of NPC ship jsut as I would not ragequit if they prevented people from using weapons on other player in high sec. Both idea are still extremely stupid and unneeded.

RubyPorto wrote:



Once again, the EHP is there to slow the rate at which you can make money. If it weren't there, missions would simply be "Push Button > get ISK."


This is the reason why NPC ship have the amount of EHP they currently do. It's intended by CCP as part of the content that you will need to spend time killing NPC stuff. Working as intended. If they changed the EHP of ships, they would have to rebalance all rewards related to NPC shooting which would have exactly 0 effect on your income in the end except making most missiong more easy to run as you would need less sustained tank to stand against enemies exploding faster.

I wouldn't mind that at all.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2013-01-22 05:58:47 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
So you want to make more money running missions in perfect safety in HS. How about no.

In what way is shooting twice as many red crosses in an hour less tedious than shooting the current number? Aside from you wanting a higher income for the same amount of time spent running risk free missions.

Why not?
Using your reasoning:
Because they have less than a quarter of the EHP of the hull they're based off of.

Secondly, because Mission running does not need a giant income buff.


Once again, the EHP is there to slow the rate at which you can make money. If it weren't there, missions would simply be "Push Button > get ISK."

Pushing button in highsec is really painful and risky at best !


To mine ice, I have to like hold control, then I need to click on the ice. A stupid useless time then goes down to 0 before I have to push both F1 and F2. I mean come on! Can't we streamline that a bit more please. I have other things to do beside this...


Yeah you should bring that up to the CSM, that you don't have fun playing the game because it is tedious... Hey maybe that is why they want to revamp mining?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-01-22 06:00:07 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
[quote=Aza Ebanu][quote=Frostys Virpio]

This is the reason why NPC ship have the amount of EHP they currently do. It's intended by CCP as part of the content that you will need to spend time killing NPC stuff. Working as intended. If they changed the EHP of ships, they would have to rebalance all rewards related to NPC shooting which would have exactly 0 effect on your income in the end except making most missiong more easy to run as you would need less sustained tank to stand against enemies exploding faster.

I wouldn't mind that at all.


Unless you do PvE for no reason at all, there would be exactly 0 benefit to your change if you agree with that. You would spend jsut as much time grinding except you would ahve to dock more often to hand-in missions thus maiking your total time grinding for ISK to replace potential PvP losses even longer.

If anything, to make the gring just a bit faster, they should actaully buff the NPC EHP and buff the mission income at the same time so we would need to re-dock less often resulting in less time lost warping to and from the agent.
terzho
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-01-22 06:04:57 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I dont know I did a search and no one has ever brought this up to the CSM before, but I am sure a lot of players would want this, and there is no good reason why CCP shouldn't lower NPC EHP.


A lot of player want a lot of stupid things but that does not mean it should happen.

True, but this isn't stupid. Its something the devs should have done long time ago. And since you can't find a good reason why CCP shouldn't I think that is a pretty good reason they should. Or would you NERDRAGEQUIT!!!! if they did this?


Yes and you can't find a good reason why it should be done apart from you find it boring and you want to kill the rats quicker.

If you think shooting NPC's is boring go do something else then.

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2013-01-22 06:06:23 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
[quote=Aza Ebanu][quote=Frostys Virpio]

This is the reason why NPC ship have the amount of EHP they currently do. It's intended by CCP as part of the content that you will need to spend time killing NPC stuff. Working as intended. If they changed the EHP of ships, they would have to rebalance all rewards related to NPC shooting which would have exactly 0 effect on your income in the end except making most missiong more easy to run as you would need less sustained tank to stand against enemies exploding faster.

I wouldn't mind that at all.


Unless you do PvE for no reason at all, there would be exactly 0 benefit to your change if you agree with that. You would spend jsut as much time grinding except you would ahve to dock more often to hand-in missions thus maiking your total time grinding for ISK to replace potential PvP losses even longer.

If anything, to make the gring just a bit faster, they should actaully buff the NPC EHP and buff the mission income at the same time so we would need to re-dock less often resulting in less time lost warping to and from the agent.

Okay but we aren't just talking about missions. See that is the problem with most players who have poasted in this thread, I am talking about NPC's not just mission NPCs, belt ratter,plexers, incursions all of it!
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2013-01-22 06:09:05 UTC
terzho wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I dont know I did a search and no one has ever brought this up to the CSM before, but I am sure a lot of players would want this, and there is no good reason why CCP shouldn't lower NPC EHP.


A lot of player want a lot of stupid things but that does not mean it should happen.

True, but this isn't stupid. Its something the devs should have done long time ago. And since you can't find a good reason why CCP shouldn't I think that is a pretty good reason they should. Or would you NERDRAGEQUIT!!!! if they did this?


Yes and you can't find a good reason why it should be done apart from you find it boring and you want to kill the rats quicker.

If you think shooting NPC's is boring go do something else then.



Whoa hold on, the game can be fun, why shouldn't it?
terzho
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2013-01-22 06:12:15 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
terzho wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I dont know I did a search and no one has ever brought this up to the CSM before, but I am sure a lot of players would want this, and there is no good reason why CCP shouldn't lower NPC EHP.


A lot of player want a lot of stupid things but that does not mean it should happen.

True, but this isn't stupid. Its something the devs should have done long time ago. And since you can't find a good reason why CCP shouldn't I think that is a pretty good reason they should. Or would you NERDRAGEQUIT!!!! if they did this?


Yes and you can't find a good reason why it should be done apart from you find it boring and you want to kill the rats quicker.

If you think shooting NPC's is boring go do something else then.



Whoa hold on, the game can be fun, why shouldn't it?


Yes but what you're saying is that shooting NPC's make it not fun and your solution is to make shooting NPC's faster so you can do something that is fun.

So why don't you do something that is fun instead?

Something you don't find enjoyable won't suddenly become enjoyable by suddenly making it over quicker.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#99 - 2013-01-22 06:12:24 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Okay but we aren't just talking about missions. See that is the problem with most players who have poasted in this thread, I am talking about NPC's not just mission NPCs, belt ratter,plexers, incursions all of it!


It would ahve the same results on these stuff too. Your incursion point would complete faster but you would get less for it resulting on more time spend preparing the fleet/warping to location. The belt rat would die faster for a lesser income but you would spend more time warping from belt to belt looking for new spawn thus lowering your ISK gain again.

The eld result of faster dieing NPC ship is only more wasted time looking for more NPC to kill for them same total ISK required to replace whatever ship you lost in PvP.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#100 - 2013-01-22 06:16:50 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

NPCs exist outside of high sec. Matter of fact they exist all through out the EVE universe.

Less EHP on NPCs means more clicks more explosions and more time to do other things in EVE.

NPCs are already "Push button get isk", but that is the game design. TBH you don't know why CCP has the EHP up so high, you guess that it is to slow players down, if that is the case what is their reason for it?

You make a lot of assumptions.

Whats wrong with players getting their isk and going on to other more fun parts of EVE?


I already explained in another post that you can freely replace "mission" with "PLEX/Belt Rat/etc"

So your entire reasoning is that you want CCP to give you more ISK per hour, correct?

NPCs are "Push Button > Wait > Get ISK." That "Wait" is actually important.

Because EVE already has too many sources of inflationary pressure. Making them bigger doesn't improve anything.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon