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It is time.
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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#61 - 2013-01-22 03:57:30 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Lemme guess, you're doing L4s in a cruiser?


No. I can't stand missions period because the NPCs have way too many hitpoints.


If you're in a battleship they go down fast. That's how you deal with more HP. Bigger guns. Blink

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-01-22 03:57:52 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Prophecy base EHP ~ 17k Imperial Templar Justicar EHP ~ 34k
Prophecy PVE tanked ~ 19k

Without taking pilot's skill into account it is clear that NPCs have more tank than needed a 15-20% reduction in NPC EHP is not asking too much really.



Prophecy Properly Fit EHP: 70k
Prophecy Bait Fit EHP: 152k

From that, by your reasoning, it's clear that NPCs need their EHP buffed, right?

Naw re-read PVE fit. You let EFT do math for you. If you divide by 3 you will get the real values. so Prophecy w/ player skills ~ 23k v. Imperial Templar Justicar ~ 34k. EHP on NPCs need a nerf.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#63 - 2013-01-22 04:02:03 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its time to nerf NPCs. They have more hitpoints than necessary: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php?supergroup=5&return_to=
The devs should reduce the hit points of NPCs by about 15% After all the NPCs are smarter now.
So why so many hit points?


-OR-
Nerf NPC corps.

Ooooo can we give members of NPC corps fewer hitpoints?

Lower EHP = easier ganks...

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
terzho
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-01-22 04:02:07 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Prophecy base EHP ~ 17k Imperial Templar Justicar EHP ~ 34k
Prophecy PVE tanked ~ 19k

Without taking pilot's skill into account it is clear that NPCs have more tank than needed a 15-20% reduction in NPC EHP is not asking too much really.



Prophecy Properly Fit EHP: 70k
Prophecy Bait Fit EHP: 152k

From that, by your reasoning, it's clear that NPCs need their EHP buffed, right?

Naw re-read PVE fit. You let EFT do math for you. If you divide by 3 you will get the real values. so Prophecy w/ player skills ~ 23k v. Imperial Templar Justicar ~ 34k. EHP on NPCs need a nerf.


So because certain NPC's have more tank then the ship you use to rat that means npcs need a nerf?
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#65 - 2013-01-22 04:03:08 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Prophecy base EHP ~ 17k Imperial Templar Justicar EHP ~ 34k
Prophecy PVE tanked ~ 19k

Without taking pilot's skill into account it is clear that NPCs have more tank than needed a 15-20% reduction in NPC EHP is not asking too much really.



Prophecy Properly Fit EHP: 70k
Prophecy Bait Fit EHP: 152k

From that, by your reasoning, it's clear that NPCs need their EHP buffed, right?

Naw re-read PVE fit. You let EFT do math for you. If you divide by 3 you will get the real values. so Prophecy w/ player skills ~ 23k v. Imperial Templar Justicar ~ 34k. EHP on NPCs need a nerf.

PVE....Prophesy...

*twitch*

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#66 - 2013-01-22 04:04:50 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Prophecy base EHP ~ 17k Imperial Templar Justicar EHP ~ 34k
Prophecy PVE tanked ~ 19k

Without taking pilot's skill into account it is clear that NPCs have more tank than needed a 15-20% reduction in NPC EHP is not asking too much really.



Prophecy Properly Fit EHP: 70k
Prophecy Bait Fit EHP: 152k

From that, by your reasoning, it's clear that NPCs need their EHP buffed, right?

Naw re-read PVE fit. You let EFT do math for you. If you divide by 3 you will get the real values. so Prophecy w/ player skills ~ 23k v. Imperial Templar Justicar ~ 34k. EHP on NPCs need a nerf.

PVE....Prophesy...

*twitch*


I was gonna say.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-01-22 04:09:36 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Prophecy base EHP ~ 17k Imperial Templar Justicar EHP ~ 34k
Prophecy PVE tanked ~ 19k

Without taking pilot's skill into account it is clear that NPCs have more tank than needed a 15-20% reduction in NPC EHP is not asking too much really.



Prophecy Properly Fit EHP: 70k
Prophecy Bait Fit EHP: 152k

From that, by your reasoning, it's clear that NPCs need their EHP buffed, right?

Naw re-read PVE fit. You let EFT do math for you. If you divide by 3 you will get the real values. so Prophecy w/ player skills ~ 23k v. Imperial Templar Justicar ~ 34k. EHP on NPCs need a nerf.

PVE....Prophesy...

*twitch*

Just used as an example. You could follow the link for your own example of PVE ships.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-01-22 04:11:02 UTC
terzho wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Prophecy base EHP ~ 17k Imperial Templar Justicar EHP ~ 34k
Prophecy PVE tanked ~ 19k

Without taking pilot's skill into account it is clear that NPCs have more tank than needed a 15-20% reduction in NPC EHP is not asking too much really.



Prophecy Properly Fit EHP: 70k
Prophecy Bait Fit EHP: 152k

From that, by your reasoning, it's clear that NPCs need their EHP buffed, right?

Naw re-read PVE fit. You let EFT do math for you. If you divide by 3 you will get the real values. so Prophecy w/ player skills ~ 23k v. Imperial Templar Justicar ~ 34k. EHP on NPCs need a nerf.


So because certain NPC's have more tank then the ship you use to rat that means npcs need a nerf?

Not at all just a sever imbalance as there is no way lore wise or clear reason why the NPC has so many EHP. Maybe CCP made up the numbers?
Cooyaw
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-01-22 04:16:19 UTC
This thread hath given many laughs to me on this birthday

To OP, try fitting a hyperspatial velocity optimizer.
Ghazu
#70 - 2013-01-22 04:19:07 UTC
op sounds smart enough to shoot guristas with laser raven.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-01-22 04:19:40 UTC
Cooyaw wrote:
This thread hath given many laughs to me on this birthday

To OP, try fitting a hyperspatial velocity optimizer.


Doesn't remove the fact that NPCs have too many EHP.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-01-22 04:21:07 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
I got nothing.



FIXED.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#73 - 2013-01-22 04:32:53 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I got nothing.


Fixed that for you.

You still haven't made any attempt to make a non-circular argument for reducing NPC EHP.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-01-22 04:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I got nothing.


Fixed that for you.

You have made many attempts to make a non-circular argument for reducing NPC EHP.

I presented evidence, so far all you've done is troll. Just saying NPCs need an EHP nerf.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#75 - 2013-01-22 05:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I got nothing.


Fixed that for you.

You haven't made any attempt to make a non-circular argument for reducing NPC EHP.

I presented evidence, so far all you've done is troll. Just saying NPCs need an EHP nerf.


No, you haven't. At least none that supports your claim.

Your claim is "NPC EHP is too high." The premise upon which you base that claim is "The EHP of NPCs is too high." See how that's circular? Anyone who accepts your premise has already accepted your conclusion, and you've provided no evidence showing any reason for us to accept your premise.

The numerical value of the EHP that NPCs have is not in question, so demonstrating that they have some amount of EHP is not evidence that supports your claim.

For what reason do you believe that NPC EHP is too high? What would the game gain as a result of reducing their EHP?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#76 - 2013-01-22 05:28:02 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
For what reason do you believe that NPC EHP is too high? What would the game gain as a result of reducing their EHP?

Well the mission runners could make more isk per hour in their safe highsec, that's gotta count or something, right

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-01-22 05:31:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I got nothing.


Fixed that for you.

You haven't made any attempt to make a non-circular argument for reducing NPC EHP.

I presented evidence, so far all you've done is troll. Just saying NPCs need an EHP nerf.


No, you haven't. At least none that supports your claim.

Your claim is "NPC EHP is too high." The premise upon which you base that claim is "The EHP of NPCs is too high." See how that's circular? Anyone who accepts your premise has already accepted your conclusion, and you've provided no evidence showing any reason for us to accept your premise.

The numerical value of the EHP that NPCs have is not in question, so demonstrating that they have some amount of EHP is not evidence that supports your claim.

For what reason do you believe that NPC EHP is too high? What would the game gain as a result of reducing their EHP?


Its too high because the hit points a more than 2x the amount of the hull they are based off of. The gain for most EVE players who engage in PVE is a more fun player experience, less tedium when participating PVE activities. Is there any good reason why NPCs have so many EHPs? I wouldn't mind a dev chiming in with their position on the topic.
You ask Why less EHP, I ask you why not?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-01-22 05:32:30 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
For what reason do you believe that NPC EHP is too high? What would the game gain as a result of reducing their EHP?

Well the mission runners could make more isk per hour in their safe highsec, that's gotta count or something, right


How are they gonna buy that 33rd mack if they don't make isks faster?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-01-22 05:34:40 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I got nothing.


Fixed that for you.

You haven't made any attempt to make a non-circular argument for reducing NPC EHP.

I presented evidence, so far all you've done is troll. Just saying NPCs need an EHP nerf.


No, you haven't. At least none that supports your claim.

Your claim is "NPC EHP is too high." The premise upon which you base that claim is "The EHP of NPCs is too high." See how that's circular? Anyone who accepts your premise has already accepted your conclusion, and you've provided no evidence showing any reason for us to accept your premise.

The numerical value of the EHP that NPCs have is not in question, so demonstrating that they have some amount of EHP is not evidence that supports your claim.

For what reason do you believe that NPC EHP is too high? What would the game gain as a result of reducing their EHP?


ts too high because the hit points a more than 2x the amount of the hull they are based off of. The gain for most EVE players who engage in PVE is a more fun player experience, less tedium when participating PVE activities. Is there any good reason why NPCs have so many EHPs? I wouldn't mind a dev chiming in with their position on the topic.


They have that much HP to make the PvE activity last at least some time. If CCP though mission took too long to complete, they would of reduced the number of ship in them or lowered the EHP of ships some tiem ago.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-01-22 05:39:33 UTC
I dont know I did a search and no one has ever brought this up to the CSM before, but I am sure a lot of players would want this, and there is no good reason why CCP shouldn't lower NPC EHP.