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Incursion Nightmare - 2 spare slots
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walladar2
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-21 08:22:30 UTC
When you fit Nightmare(sniper) for Incursions, the 2 high slots are not for beams.

Many guys fit energy transfer module for 2 slots but they do not seem to be used.

Then, what do you generally use those 2 slots for Incursion Nightmare Sniper?

Nos? Drone Aug..? Shield transfer module?
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2013-01-21 08:37:05 UTC
walladar2 wrote:
When you fit Nightmare(sniper) for Incursions, the 2 high slots are not for beams.

Many guys fit energy transfer module for 2 slots but they do not seem to be used.

Then, what do you generally use those 2 slots for Incursion Nightmare Sniper?

Nos? Drone Aug..? Shield transfer module?






Energy transfers can save a fleet if a logi DQ's

I always ran one energy one shield trans. Did save a mach once when logi derped hard (Note that this was back when you blitzed incursions and incoming dps was MUCH higher)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

marVLs
#3 - 2013-01-21 09:40:24 UTC
walladar2 wrote:

Many guys fit energy transfer module for 2 slots but they do not seem to be used.


You're so wrong man

Fit that damn 2x ET and get cap buddy
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-01-21 10:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I always ran one energy one shield trans.

This for me as well.
Aside from providing safety measures, ET is useful in assaults and up, especially if you run T2 guns.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-21 13:13:30 UTC
I was unaware there was a Sniper fit for nightmares...
Tachs work for almost everything in incursions - though not scout sites, and not NCOs...
Beyond that its just switching crystals and scripts.

Anyway..... 1x energy transfer 2 for a cap buddy (or if your in a cruddy fleet with no cap buddy you can do a NOS, or a auto targeting system to let you lock more targets at once), 1x shield transfer to spider tank in case the logi situation is insufficient.
Zoltan Lazar
#6 - 2013-01-21 17:54:01 UTC
Always 2x energy trans. If you're a capstable solo nightmare, you're doing it wrong. It should require a cap buddy.
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-01-21 21:56:48 UTC
When I ran TVP a year ago, we used the 2 Energy Transfers to buddy with other cap heavy snipers (Nightmare and Nightmare, Nightmare and Bhaalgorn etc etc). If they were unable to be capped up by the Logistics.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#8 - 2013-01-21 22:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Wait, Bhaalgorn in Incursions? Why?

-Liang

Ed: If it's for the web bonus, it would feel like a T3 or Recon would be a better choice... ?

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-01-21 22:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
The Bhaal can web like those things you mentioned, but still throw out a good bit of DPS, You only need 1 deadspace invuln in the mids.
3-4 Heat sinks, 2-3 TEs, for the lows (you could throw in a DC, or a sig amp)
mid, 1x deadpace invuln, 1-2x faction webs, fill he rest with Sebo/TC
4x scorched mega pulse, equivalent to 8x - I think its going to be hard for your other candidates to measure up to that.
If could also pair with a vindi (probably the drone bunny) for killing frigs

I still disagree with 2x energy transfers.... fit a shield transfer, use less logis, add more DPS to the fleet,
1 energy, 1 shield

These people are talking about "sniper" fit NMs... what are those? NMs that nerf their DPS by having less heat sinks?
Tachs + heats sinks + TCs + Sebos = VG fit, assault fit, HQ fit.
Tracking scriped Tachs with gleam can hit well, farther out with IN multi, they still hit well (the frigs shouldn't even get a chance to get in close), just swap the scripts, use longer range crystals (and I'm not really a fan of Aurora, IN standard out damages it, and out tracks it, and often has sufficient optimal, or can have sufficient optimal by some script changes while still having better tracking), and you're now sniping
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#10 - 2013-01-21 22:42:38 UTC
Hmmmm, it feels like you should be able to get similar results out of a Loki. I've got a 700 DPS arty loki that I kick around in when I want to do low sec exploration - I can't imagine it wouldn't work equally well when remote tanked.

/shrug

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-01-21 22:47:12 UTC
Does it do that DPS out to 70 km like Scorched mega pulse with 3x TEs do?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#12 - 2013-01-21 22:51:11 UTC
Ultimate incursion nightmare....Armor Drake.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#13 - 2013-01-21 22:52:59 UTC
I honestly don't know. I've never noticed any range issues with it. I assume it goes out to ~50km or so with good DPS.

-Liang

Ed: If you're at home and have access to EFT, you should answer that question. I'm at work and can't. :)

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#14 - 2013-01-21 23:19:54 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:

I still disagree with 2x energy transfers.... fit a shield transfer, use less logis, add more DPS to the fleet,
1 energy, 1 shield

I disagree with this tbh. From experience the biggest issue in vanguards is not damage, or even damage application, it's getting people focused enough on what they're doing to reduce the lost time between shots. Back when I ran the sites in a vindi, I noticed that on my own I was clearing sites at about half the speed of a proper 8 dps 2 logi fleet. 8 times the dps ships cleared sites in half the time, it's insane. You'll see it too, if you pay close attention when running sites, look to see how quickly all guns come to bear on the primary, often times it's more than half dead before everyone's shooting it, even against BSs. Because of this I think trying to split the DPS ships attention between damage and repping is going to cost you more than you gain by having one extra dps ship.

In larger sites I just don't trust masses of DPS ships to be on the ball with repping, because it's easy to get rid of a bad logi pilot from a fleet, but what do you do if the average reps being thrown around aren't enough? It's too hard to weed out the bads.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-01-22 03:02:55 UTC
That rr with no range won't save anyone when **** hits the fan anyway.Lol

Get a heavy nos, True Sansha Heavy Nos only cost 3 mil, and covers 30km. It gives you cap, and the extra ewar aggro makes you more manly.Cool
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#16 - 2013-01-22 05:46:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Verity Sovereign wrote:
The Bhaal can web like those things you mentioned, but still throw out a good bit of DPS, You only need 1 deadspace invuln in the mids.
3-4 Heat sinks, 2-3 TEs, for the lows (you could throw in a DC, or a sig amp)
mid, 1x deadpace invuln, 1-2x faction webs, fill he rest with Sebo/TC
4x scorched mega pulse, equivalent to 8x - I think its going to be hard for your other candidates to measure up to that.
If could also pair with a vindi (probably the drone bunny) for killing frigs

I still disagree with 2x energy transfers.... fit a shield transfer, use less logis, add more DPS to the fleet,
1 energy, 1 shield

These people are talking about "sniper" fit NMs... what are those? NMs that nerf their DPS by having less heat sinks?
Tachs + heats sinks + TCs + Sebos = VG fit, assault fit, HQ fit.
Tracking scriped Tachs with gleam can hit well, farther out with IN multi, they still hit well (the frigs shouldn't even get a chance to get in close), just swap the scripts, use longer range crystals (and I'm not really a fan of Aurora, IN standard out damages it, and out tracks it, and often has sufficient optimal, or can have sufficient optimal by some script changes while still having better tracking), and you're now sniping


Bhaalgorn advantages:
- 68 More EFT DPS (776 vs 708)
- 386 More EFT DPS at 60km (781 vs 395) (Target is BC on near approach, against frigs its lololololbhalgornlololol)

Loki advantages:
- More shield EHP
- Smaller sig
- More webs
- Better webs
- Better scan res
- Better tracking
- Faster

I don't know if it's worth trading 386 DPS @ 60km for 10km better web range, or whether tracking even matters. I'll leave it to the raid guilds to figure that out.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-01-22 07:32:39 UTC
The RR high is rarely used, so it normally doesn't interfere with DPS application, but sometimes logis DC/ get jammed/ you just don't have enough logi when that really heavy HQ wave spawns, and you may need to call out for a spider tank for a few seconds.

You must be running with scrubs if 8x the DPS only halves site completion time


Also... why do you need 2 cap transfers? 1 should be plenty to keep everything running, even with no elutriation rigs, if you have proper skills and implants.
More than 1 is just unnecessary, and gives up the RR capability that on occasion can save a ship/multiple ships (as when a logi is saved, and its your only active logi)
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#18 - 2013-01-22 18:36:33 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:

You must be running with scrubs if 8x the DPS only halves site completion time

I ran sites back when incursions first came out, and for the first month or so I could literally OD entire fleets, was enormously fun Big smile That said, fleets that took half the time the vindi did to finish sites were the good fleets. An NCO for example was 6 minutes between payouts when I got all the timings down (though this could be extended by a minute or so if I was unlucky with the jam cycles from myelens) and in theory I could have got it down to 5 (though that would have required literally flawless target management on my part)
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#19 - 2013-01-22 18:39:53 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I always ran one energy one shield trans.

This for me as well.
Aside from providing safety measures, ET is useful in assaults and up, especially if you run T2 guns.


ISN standard fit right there.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-01-23 11:14:53 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Bhaalgorn advantages:
- 68 More EFT DPS (776 vs 708)
- 386 More EFT DPS at 60km (781 vs 395) (Target is BC on near approach, against frigs its lololololbhalgornlololol)

Loki advantages:
- More shield EHP
- Smaller sig
- More webs
- Better webs
- Better scan res
- Better tracking
- Faster

I don't know if it's worth trading 386 DPS @ 60km for 10km better web range, or whether tracking even matters. I'll leave it to the raid guilds to figure that out.

-Liang


I'm not saying the Bhaal is clearly superior, just that its not such a bad ship to use, as it was seemingly implied.
I'll also note that even if it is webbing frigs and cruisers, it doesn't neccessarily have to be shooting at them. It can start slowing frigs at close range for the anti-frig boats, while still doing DPS at cruisers and BS's at range.

That said... you rarely see them in ISN fleets, but occasionally you will see them, as they are not terri-bad