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Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#1 - 2013-01-21 15:25:23 UTC
I just need something to stand still for a bit.

here is a thought I had about force multipliers and campaign longevity. I hope it can stay here.

Longevity of Eve:

Part of me wonders if it can even be salvaged at this point. I remember seeing EQ for the first time in a “cyber-café” or whatever they were called then. It looked really cool, but as soon as the guy opened his inventory and showed me the items warning bells started to go off. I had seen the corrosive effects of force multiplying skills*items*levels in ttRPG’s. They inevitably lead to a Monty Hall style game experience.

Eve’s Item*implant*skill multiplier curve may be even steeper at this point than comparably aged MMO’s. When I think the only way to maintain long term stability in a system is with a decelerating power curve.

We will see.
Myrissa Kistel
Planetary Logistics
#2 - 2013-01-21 15:31:27 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I just need something to stand still for a bit.

here is a thought I had about force multipliers and campaign longevity. I hope it can stay here.

Longevity of Eve:

Part of me wonders if it can even be salvaged at this point. I remember seeing EQ for the first time in a “cyber-café” or whatever they were called then. It looked really cool, but as soon as the guy opened his inventory and showed me the items warning bells started to go off. I had seen the corrosive effects of force multiplying skills*items*levels in ttRPG’s. They inevitably lead to a Monty Hall style game experience.

Eve’s Item*implant*skill multiplier curve may be even steeper at this point than comparably aged MMO’s. When I think the only way to maintain long term stability in a system is with a decelerating power curve.

We will see.


Eve is hitting the 10 year mark. I would say that is longevity.

Other than that, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#3 - 2013-01-21 15:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Myrissa Kistel wrote:

Eve is hitting the 10 year mark. I would say that is longevity.

Other than that, I have no idea what you are talking about.


That's entirely the point, it wasn't designed to last for 10 years. It may not be possible to make it last another 10 just because of the underlying acceleration inherent in the model.


nice shirt
Whitehound
#4 - 2013-01-21 16:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Myrissa Kistel wrote:

Eve is hitting the 10 year mark. I would say that is longevity.

Other than that, I have no idea what you are talking about.


That's entirely the point, it wasn't designed to last for 10 years. It may not be possible to make it last another 10 just because of the underlying acceleration inherent in the model.


nice shirt

How would you know what EVE was designed for?!?

You are being outright arrogant with such ridiculous statements.

Stop posting your rant over and over again, please. If you have an idea then take it into Features and Ideas forum.

PS: And a "Thank You!" to the ISDs who keep doing their job and lock or move your threads.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#5 - 2013-01-21 16:21:26 UTC
Whitehound wrote:

How would you know what EVE was designed for?!?

You are being outright arrogant with such ridiculous statements.

Stop posting your rant over and over again, please. If you have an idea then take it into Features and Ideas forum.

PS: And a "Thank You!" to the ISDs who keep doing their job and lock or move your threads.


Eve has so many rules and caveats, one of the things I love about it. I read as much as I can but the game really doesn't start to make sense until you just sit down and start playing a bit.

These forums are the same way Whitehound. I will post and read and adjust to the stimuli here. And eventually I will find a way to interact. I will lose a few ships along the way, but that's OK. It is part of what makes this fun.

I'm sorry that you do not like me or my writing. I very much enjoy being here and discussing the game world.
Enaya Wendos
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-01-21 18:27:56 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


Eve has so many rules and caveats, one of the things I love about it. I read as much as I can but the game really doesn't start to make sense until you just sit down and start playing a bit.

These forums are the same way Whitehound. I will post and read and adjust to the stimuli here. And eventually I will find a way to interact. I will lose a few ships along the way, but that's OK. It is part of what makes this fun.

I'm sorry that you do not like me or my writing. I very much enjoy being here and discussing the game world.


I don't understand why you would want to read about the game in the first place, the way to experience and understand something is to get involved and start playing.

For the last 10 years CCP have pretty much given the player base free reign to do what they want within Eve. That freedom and the community itself are what keeps the game fresh for me, even if most of the players have the IQ of a pencil.

Eve isn't like other MMO's where the storyline is handed to you, you have the power to change it in this game. Not to mention CCP take elected players as representatives and regularly act on their feedback.

I don't understand (nor care to) the models or designs CCP have in place, but if they keep doing what they are doing i'll keep playing it until the servers turn to dust (no pun intended).

Basic jist is - who cares, play the game and have fun. Let CCP worry about designs, models and longtivety etc.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#7 - 2013-01-21 18:35:09 UTC
Enaya Wendos wrote:


I don't understand why you would want to read about the game in the first place, the way to experience and understand something is to get involved and start playing.

For the last 10 years CCP have pretty much given the player base free reign to do what they want within Eve. That freedom and the community itself are what keeps the game fresh for me, even if most of the players have the IQ of a pencil.

Eve isn't like other MMO's where the storyline is handed to you, you have the power to change it in this game. Not to mention CCP take elected players as representatives and regularly act on their feedback.

I don't understand (nor care to) the models or designs CCP have in place, but if they keep doing what they are doing i'll keep playing it until the servers turn to dust (no pun intended).

Basic jist is - who cares, play the game and have fun. Let CCP worry about designs, models and longtivety etc.


Thank you, that is a good reminder. I was just reading about the whole CFC HBC drama. I started wondering last summer after Delve how long that romance would last. I wish the CCD didn't lock that post. I don't want to go over to the Goon/Test thread and discuss it.

Perhaps I will set up a cov-ops and JC near tribute.
Enaya Wendos
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-01-21 18:39:42 UTC
Or better yet hatch a scheme to create your own drama, the comedy value of this game alone are worth the subs Blink
WarlockX
Free Trade Corp
#9 - 2013-01-21 18:40:12 UTC
what force multiplier items are you referring to?
And what power curve?

Has there even been new implants as of late? I can't remember any in the past few years...
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#10 - 2013-01-21 18:54:58 UTC
WarlockX wrote:
what force multiplier items are you referring to?
And what power curve?

Has there even been new implants as of late? I can't remember any in the past few years...

Any time you have linear growth along several vectors they will compound into a very steep curve when multiplied. A 20million SP char with t2 fittings, combat implants, and combat experience will kill a 1 million SP char with t1 fittings and no implants in one or 2 volleys.

Remove the combat implants, shrink the gear disparity to a few one hundredths of a %, same with the effect of skills on the hardware and the vet pilot will still win 90% of the time. But the fight will last longer.

I'm not saying that older, wealthier more prepared pilots shouldnt have a mechanical advantage, but there is no reason for that advantage to be so great.

With this disproportionate play field the content created by younger players has little impact on older players. If the playing field was more level then there would be more exciting and real content for everyone.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#11 - 2013-01-21 19:05:35 UTC
At the last fanfest the Devs said they are well aware of the three "creeps" that tend to plague online games, and that can kill them.

The power creep: New items released make old items that did basically the same task redundant.
The cost creep: Otherwise known as inflation.
The complexity creep: New stuff added making the game ever more complex and impenetrable to a new player.

Current containment methods:

Power creep: do a balanced set of nerfs and buffs, so the overall power of items stays about constant.

Cost creep: Do not in any way index NPC bounties or mission payouts to a cost index. Try and keep the economy moving via building and destruction of items.

Complexity creep: Add features that make it easier to figure out how to do something, while leaving it to the player to decide what to do.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#12 - 2013-01-21 19:09:56 UTC
The real power in EVE is not your implants or your skills, but rather your friends. Force-multiply THAT. Also, EVE is dying!
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#13 - 2013-01-21 19:11:21 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
At the last fanfest the Devs said they are well aware of the three "creeps" that tend to plague online games, and that can kill them.

The power creep: New items released make old items that did basically the same task redundant.
The cost creep: Otherwise known as inflation.
The complexity creep: New stuff added making the game ever more complex and impenetrable to a new player.

Current containment methods:

Power creep: do a balanced set of nerfs and buffs, so the overall power of items stays about constant.

Cost creep: Do not in any way index NPC bounties or mission payouts to a cost index. Try and keep the economy moving via building and destruction of items.

Complexity creep: Add features that make it easier to figure out how to do something, while leaving it to the player to decide what to do.

You may have saved from the road to CCP bitterness and dev blasting! phew, that was close. TY
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#14 - 2013-01-21 19:20:58 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
The real power in EVE is not your implants or your skills, but rather your friends. Force-multiply THAT. Also, EVE is dying!


IDK, CFC and HBC are probably going to come to blows here soon. That could blow up the big blue doughnut. And CCP knows that more shiny toys are not the answer. They apologized for the WiS thing and seem to be getting back to creating ways for us to scam and assault...I mean interact with one another.

I have had to deal with the carepony generation on some other issues. They are not impossible to reason with, but it has been my experience that they hate the old guard in any form. That's OK hate spins the wheels of content just fine.

We will see.
Whitehound
#15 - 2013-01-21 19:22:30 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I'm not saying that older, wealthier more prepared pilots shouldnt have a mechanical advantage, but there is no reason for that advantage to be so great.

Why so jealous?

Sure there is. Those implants are rare and expensive, but once the pilot sits in a pod are they gone in one shot. What do then your assumptions look like when you compare the number of old players to new players? I bet you did not think of the old players but of yourself and how this puts you at a disadvantage, right? Maybe there are far fewer old pilots than new pilots? Let's use the search function to find out...

Oh, there is something: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=310

What do you say, do we leave them their toys?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#16 - 2013-01-21 19:27:30 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I'm not saying that older, wealthier more prepared pilots shouldnt have a mechanical advantage, but there is no reason for that advantage to be so great.

Why so jealous?

Sure there is. Those implants are rare and expensive, but once the pilot sits in a pod are they gone in one shot. What do then your assumptions look like when you compare the number of old players to new players? I bet you did not think of the old players but of yourself and how this puts you at a disadvantage, right? Maybe there are far fewer old pilots than new pilots? Let's use the search function to find out...

Oh, there is something: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=310

What do you say, do we leave them their toys?

No I'm afraid that implants need a substantial nerf in order to even the playing field. With so many new players coming in we can't have this kind of lopsided arrangement. Fortunately it is a situation in which compliance does not require you to do anything. Just wait a while.
Whitehound
#17 - 2013-01-21 19:29:30 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
No I'm afraid that implants need a substantial nerf in order to even the playing field.

Why? You don't have any.

What's your problem?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#18 - 2013-01-21 19:34:35 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
No I'm afraid that implants need a substantial nerf in order to even the playing field.

Why? You don't have any.

What's your problem?


I don't have a problem. I'm just betting on new blood to be more inclined to stay in Eve if the playing field is level.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2013-01-21 19:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
No I'm afraid that implants need a substantial nerf in order to even the playing field. With so many new players coming in we can't have this kind of lopsided arrangement.
Sure we can, since the advantage isn't so big that it can't be compensated for with ease through other means.

The only game I've come across where there's such a good parity between old and new characters is Planetside, largely because it followed the same design of shallow/wide ability trees (albeit on a much on a much smaller scale).

Quote:
I don't have a problem. I'm just betting on new blood to be more inclined to stay in Eve if the playing field is level.
It is level. The problem is that said new blood falsely believes that EVE works like a class/level/xp-based MMO and that “catching up” is an applicable concept. The problem is education, not skills or implants.
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#20 - 2013-01-21 19:35:34 UTC
God why are people so hung up on skill points, focus on one skill set and you'll be top of your game in a couple of months, just like other mmos. If you diversify then you are looking at months and months. Want a titan? WTF would you want one of them, you just sit in it and crap yourself when you accidentally warp it ! :P
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