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[Retribution 1.1] Armor Tanking 1.5

First post First post
Author
Luna Deos
Moon Intensifies
Deae Lunae
#21 - 2013-01-21 18:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Luna Deos
Legash Silden wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Plates
  • Add a new skill to the game called Armor Upgrades. This skill reduces the mass penalty of all armor plates by 5% per level. (Int/Mem, rank 3, requires Mechanics 3)
  • Reduce the mass penalty on all 800mm, 200mm and 50mm plates by 20%



  • If i'm reading this correctly, 1600 plates are unaffected by the new skill? That would definitely be a small step towards making other plates viable - though tbh 1600s will most likely still dominate.


    I'm reading this as the plates get a flat mass reduction and the skill would add further reductions.

    Edit: to clarify, that the 1600 plates wouldn't change in the vanilla mass but the skill would skill affect them.
    Destoya
    Habitual Euthanasia
    Pandemic Legion
    #22 - 2013-01-21 18:53:44 UTC
    What about the sad, sad 100mm plates?
    Gothikia
    Wicked Cartel
    #23 - 2013-01-21 18:54:04 UTC
    Do this, and my starfish is yours.

    Love the proposed changes.

    <3 Gothie

    Two step
    Aperture Harmonics
    #24 - 2013-01-21 18:55:07 UTC
    Legash Silden wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

    Plates
  • Add a new skill to the game called Armor Upgrades. This skill reduces the mass penalty of all armor plates by 5% per level. (Int/Mem, rank 3, requires Mechanics 3)
  • Reduce the mass penalty on all 800mm, 200mm and 50mm plates by 20%



  • If i'm reading this correctly, 1600 plates are unaffected by the new skill? That would definitely be a small step towards making other plates viable - though tbh 1600s will most likely still dominate.


    No, the skill effects all plates, and the listed plates get a base mass reduction as well (without the skill)

    CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #25 - 2013-01-21 18:56:13 UTC
    Two step wrote:
    Legash Silden wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

    Plates
  • Add a new skill to the game called Armor Upgrades. This skill reduces the mass penalty of all armor plates by 5% per level. (Int/Mem, rank 3, requires Mechanics 3)
  • Reduce the mass penalty on all 800mm, 200mm and 50mm plates by 20%



  • If i'm reading this correctly, 1600 plates are unaffected by the new skill? That would definitely be a small step towards making other plates viable - though tbh 1600s will most likely still dominate.


    No, the skill effects all plates, and the listed plates get a base mass reduction as well (without the skill)


    I have updated the OP to hopefully make that more clear.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    Roime
    Mea Culpa.
    Shadow Cartel
    #26 - 2013-01-21 18:57:30 UTC
    Overheating rigs and AAR are simply genious, way more awesome than I could have expected.

    Small plate mass reduction and active rig penalty change <3

    Hull bonuses affect AARs?

    .

    Allison A'vani
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #27 - 2013-01-21 18:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Allison A'vani
    Quote:
    Change the penalty on all active armor rigs (Aux Nano Pump, Nanobot Accelerator, and the new Nanobot Overcharger) to increase the powergrid use of local armor reps by 10% instead of reducing ship velocity.



    This makes the hyperion very hard to fit, also your new mod is not as good as two faction reps.
    Christopher Hillan
    Misfit Mafia
    Brave Collective
    #28 - 2013-01-21 18:57:41 UTC
    Two thumbs up for this.
    I fly armor all the time and I felt bad because of the speed disadvantage, now that got fixed, and we got new reps to boot.
    Not bad CCP, not bad at all.
    Hans Jagerblitzen
    Ice Fire Warriors
    #29 - 2013-01-21 18:59:37 UTC
    Ahhhhh, so THIS is what you had in mind for active armor tanking Fozzie. Twisted

    CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

    Akturous
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #30 - 2013-01-21 18:59:42 UTC
    Changes seem mostly quite good, I like that there's some distinction between asb and armour rep. What size cap charges will the reps use?

    couple of points:

    Many active armour ships (myrm, hype, brutix) are very very tight on pg and will get even tighter post tiericide. Now that the rigs make the reps use more pg, the situation is going to be dire.

    Secondly, I really think you should stop adding support skills to the game, you keep widening the gap between old and new players, you need to REDUCE support skill training time and INCREASE ship and weapon skill training time, so maximising in a particular specialty is quicker instead of needing 20mill sp in support skills to get the maximum from your t1 frig, it's fracking stupid and not at all condusive to keeping new players.

    Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

    1Of9
    A Blessed Bean
    Pandemic Horde
    #31 - 2013-01-21 19:00:10 UTC
    I like the proposed chances, and as a massive dual-rep armor tank old-stype nerd that i am, would like to point out:

    1) dont let this nullify the potential mix of dual / triple reps, i mean, having dual "normal" reps + one Ancillary Armor Repairer if player wants to, and run all at once

    2) If you are limiting the Ancillary Armor Repairer to a single unit per ship fitted, i dont think 225% bonus is enough, considering that on top of the reload time for cap boosters, and on top of cap boosters been a vital part of any active tank setup, taking in account the size they have and current cargo bay sizes, i would think a bit more "humph" would be a good idea

    3) dont make them too hungry for cpu/power, any active tank setup is already super tight, usually we cant fit the ship without a cpu/grid rig or implants, if this module is "too" hungry it will basically means death to the normal reps.. just dont make them too hungry on fittings please.

    4) Will there be a T2 variation?

    5) maybe implants to affect this module and his shield variant?

    6) How will this module be affected by ship bonus (kronos/hyper for example) and by boosters? (drugs)
    Lord MuffloN
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #32 - 2013-01-21 19:01:02 UTC
    These changes are great Fozzie, but have the numbers been run so this won't break any active armor pvp fit that dares use anything above electrons for Gallente ships, if they use the new rig?
    B'reanna
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #33 - 2013-01-21 19:01:05 UTC
    if the rigs now effect the power grid amount for reps are you going to be adjust power gird of the mods/ships?

    also while a aar with rigs might come some what close to the rep of a single asb the asb still has the option of having more than one. if the goal is to get better burst tanks on armor ships i think this still has some work to go. as the asb dosnt use/need riggs to increase its rep amount and thus can use those slots for other things. this armor rep will almost require some of the rep amount or rep overheat rigs to compare at all.

    while i like the new mass skill and the reductions of mass on some of the plates why not the 1600 as it is the one predomiantly used?

    lastly the different dynamic on the aar as far as rep and cap boosters is interesting and probably a better mechanic than the current asb one.

    Elise Randolph
    Habitual Euthanasia
    Pandemic Legion
    #34 - 2013-01-21 19:01:41 UTC
    :thumbsup:

    ~

    Milton Middleson
    Rifterlings
    #35 - 2013-01-21 19:02:02 UTC
    Quote:
    Reduce the mass penalty on all 800mm, 200mm and 50mm plates by 20%

    Is the intent here to create a sort of light armor/heavy armor dichotomy, wherein you can either go for max brickage with a heavy plate or have a fragile armor tank and not lose much speed?

    Also, are there any ambitions to do something about the fact that 50/100mm plates are borderline useless, or the fact that past cruiser size, buffer modules stop scaling?
    TrouserDeagle
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #36 - 2013-01-21 19:02:14 UTC
    Very mad.

    I don't like cap boosters at all. Can't you just nerf buffer tanking loads, triple the cap drain amount on nosferatu and make them easier to fit? Also put a meaningful penalty on shield rigs and extenders.
    Mag's
    Azn Empire
    #37 - 2013-01-21 19:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
    Liking it so far. Will think on it more.

    Have doubts about this now. Buffer tank still looks better.

    Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

    Xenuria
    #38 - 2013-01-21 19:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Xenuria
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Xenuria wrote:
    I have a question, what about 1600mm Plates? Why are they excluded from the bonus? I personally never use anything smaller than those for plates.


    The fact that nobody uses anything other than 1600mm and 400mm plates is why they are excluded from the bonus Smile
    The 800mm and 200mm change is to help narrow that gap a bit (I know it doesn't narrow it all the way) and the 50mm change is there just to keep OCD people happy.

    1600s still get the benefit of the new skill.



    So.... Do they benefit or don't they?

    You said
    "The fact that nobody uses anything other than 1600mm and 400mm plates is why they are excluded from the bonus Smile"

    Then you said
    "1600s Still get the benefit of the new skill."

    Which is it?

    Also if your logic behind not including 1600s in the bonus is anywhere along the lines of "Too many people use them" then I have some bad news for you. That is called being spiteful and is not what I have come to expect from CCP. That is the sort of reasoning that Blizzard uses when they nerf something or buff something else.

    "Nobody uses anything other than 1600mm and 400m" is NOT an acceptable argument and falls in line with the whole "Stop liking what I don't like" mentality that I came to eve to escape from.


    EDIT: I see you have updated the OP. I understand now what you are doing and why. You had me concerned for a moment. So you are incentiveising using other plates without spiting those that choose not too. Carry on.
    Freighdee Katt
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #39 - 2013-01-21 19:03:19 UTC
    It looks like these changes will nicely address burst tanking and armor fit agility. How about the resist / rep bonus disparity? Are there plans to buff normal reppers across the board or raise all hull rep bonuses to 10% to address the problem that local rep bonuses are widely viewed as too weak and useless compared to active shield and resist bonuses?

    EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?

    Garviel Tarrant
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #40 - 2013-01-21 19:03:29 UTC
    I kinda groaned when i read Ancilliary...



    But they are different and they seem to be more... Fun..


    although they kinda mean you're going to need a massive amount of cap boosters <.<






    What we really need now is a significant buff to the NOS...

    BYDI recruitment closed-ish