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[Basic Cane Setup] after PG changes?
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Blaze Cypher
Death Mental Incorporated
#1 - 2013-01-21 18:19:04 UTC
Greetings.

So I just tried to fit a Cane and noticed that there have been some changes to the PG output.

I'm just wondering how you guys would suggest to fit a cane nowerdays since I just can't put
an acceptable fit together. What I'm looking for is some kind of small gang pvp cane.

Any help would be very appriciated.

Cheers ~Blaze
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#2 - 2013-01-21 18:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
I've been too sadden by CCP to even look into a new Cane fit.. They took 2 BC's that actually worked well and nerfed them (Hurricane & Drake) rather than balance the rest of the ships first. The 425mm/Dual med Neut Cane was likely the only true viable solo BC in the game and CCP cut it's power grid. Evil
Blaze Cypher
Death Mental Incorporated
#3 - 2013-01-21 18:31:55 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
I've been too sadden by CCP to even look into a new Cane fit.. They took 2 BC's that actually worked well and nerfed them (Hurricane & Drake) rather than balance the rest of the ships first. The 425mm/Dual med Neut Cane was likely the only true viable solo BC in the game and CCP cut it's power grid. Evil


Yeah, good point. Straight
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2013-01-21 21:42:33 UTC
Blaze Cypher wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
I've been too sadden by CCP to even look into a new Cane fit.. They took 2 BC's that actually worked well and nerfed them (Hurricane & Drake) rather than balance the rest of the ships first. The 425mm/Dual med Neut Cane was likely the only true viable solo BC in the game and CCP cut it's power grid. Evil


Yeah, good point. Straight


No it isn't.. All buffs no nerfs = power creep


Power creep is really really bad.




And your cane is still one of the best BC's, stop being bad.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#5 - 2013-01-21 22:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Hi I have no solo kills of anything but frigs, but I'm an expert at flying Hurricanes solo on the forums.


Lol

To the OP.. I just played with EFT a bit and you can get close to the old 425/fit but it's gimped a bit and requires maxed fitting skills & a +2 power grid implant. (which pretty much screws the fit, considering not everyone wants to fly with a power grid implant)

[Hurricane, ]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Warp Disruptor II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


You now have to drop the shields to Meta 4, Drop the neuts to meta 4 and add a ACR. This bring the price of the ship up quite a bit due to the cost of the med m4 neuts & the 10 mil isk rig.

You can probably get away with out the power grid implant if you go with an invun-field, but then you gimp your tank quite a bit.

Personally I used to use the above fit all T2 with out the ACR. Sometimes I'd drop to meta SE's and use a rate of fire rig. Was a great fit for solo & tag team. If going past 2 in a gang then I used to love the 720 Arti fits.


I don't think you can get anything close to the old 720 art fit, so I didn't play with that. It was already a very tight fit with the old pwr grid.

Armor fit might still be viable with 220's but it really depends how "small" your gang is. To me small gang means no logi support just 2 to 5 ships. and with out logi I'd only fly shield buffer not armor buffer.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#6 - 2013-01-21 22:46:52 UTC
You need a fitting mod to get max tank, max firepower, and dual neuts onto a ship? That's insane.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2013-01-21 23:18:38 UTC
It's losing one of its utility slots and some of it's speed on February 10. But not all is lost.

Armor changes

Armor is back bitches.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-01-22 00:39:42 UTC
A squid questioning my solo credentials /o\

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#9 - 2013-01-22 01:06:05 UTC
Drop a med neut for a small neut up until the patch where it loses a utility high. It's not much of a downgrade in the grand scheme of things.
Voi Lutois
Vonkell
#10 - 2013-01-22 01:17:51 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
A squid questioning my solo credentials /o\


^ the face of elite #1 solo pvp all time ever
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#11 - 2013-01-22 01:55:27 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
A squid questioning my solo credentials /o\


Nobody questions the power of your Loki. Your frigate alts that pose as "solo" pvpers, now thats a completely different story, isn't it?
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#12 - 2013-01-22 03:24:34 UTC
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
Drop a med neut for a small neut up until the patch where it loses a utility high. It's not much of a downgrade in the grand scheme of things.


When it loses the utility high the fit is done anyway, but with that fit having x2 Med neuts was very important in being able to kill certain types of ships. Dual cap fitted Myrms for one can usually handle a single med neut same with the Drake. With the Drake it was usually pretty important to cap them out as fast as possible to kill their invuns or else they could likely out tank you. (might be different with the HML gimp)

Was same with the "old school" cyclone before ASB's. Granted a Cyclone could kill that Cane if he knew how to fly it, but now the Cane wouldn't have a chance because neuting the cap wont kill the tank. Only hope would be to kite the Cyclone but if the Cyclone is fit well he could run the Cane off with his missiles.

Not to mention Harbingers & Brutix's as well.. (Brutix's could always be kited but every once in a while you might run into a dual rep fit that needed the neuts to cap him out)

Also many tackle frigs can handle getting hit with a med while staying out of range of the small, but they won't be able to deal with 2x med neuts. When you are fighting a small gang it's often the crappy little tackle frigs that get you killed. Being able to instantly zap his cap will save your ship.

That fit was quite simply the best mix of having the most Gank & GTFO ability in a single hull. Likely the only ship better than it now would be the Talos for it's ability to Kite & gank the hell out of stuff, but if the Talos gets scrammed it has no ability out side of drones to get away.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#13 - 2013-01-22 03:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Milton Middleson wrote:
You need a fitting mod to get max tank, max firepower, and dual neuts onto a ship? That's insane.


Why do you think the grid nerf sucks.. You didn't need a fitting mod prior to the gimp and you could fit everything T2. But I think you are trolling. X

I do understand what you are saying, but quite honestly the game now has tier 3 BC's and a upcoming tiericde to the rest of them. Why CCP chose to gimp the Cane & Drake before a rebalance is just silly IMO. In the past perhaps the Cane was a bit OP, but now cruisers are much more effective and there are the T3 cruisers and already mentioned Tier 3 BC's.. The cane was hardly over powered at this point.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#14 - 2013-01-22 03:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Inkuras
Here are 3 fits that will still work after the BC change.

Hurricane: Shield Nano Kite

Highs:
425mm Autocannon II x6 (Republic Fleet EMP M)
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator

Mids:
Experimental 10mn Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Lows:
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II x2
Tracking Enhancer II x2
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Rigs:
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I x2

Works same as before, minus the 2nd medium neut.

Hurricane: Artycane

Highs:
720mm Howitzer Artillery II x6 (Republic Fleet EMP M)
[Empty High Slot]

Mids:
Experimental 10mn Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Lows:
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II x2
Tracking Enhancer II x2
Reactor Control Unit II

Rigs:
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I x2

Same as before, just like the other one

Hurricane: Dual Web Armour

Highs:
220mm Vulcan Autocannon II x6 (Republic Fleet EMP M)
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Mids:
Experimental 10mn Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I x2

Lows:
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II x2
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II x2
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Rigs:
Medium Trimark Armour Pump I x3

Pretty solid tank, does good DPS, and the medium neut is a pain for small ships to deal with

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#15 - 2013-01-22 06:36:33 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Milton Middleson wrote:
You need a fitting mod to get max tank, max firepower, and dual neuts onto a ship? That's insane.


Why do you think the grid nerf sucks.. You didn't need a fitting mod prior to the gimp and you could fit everything T2. But I think you are trolling. X


I was being sarcastic, not trolling. The Hurricane was an example of a ship with way too much fitting room as evinced by the ability to fit a heavy shield tank, the largest guns in class, and a pair of medium neuts without making a single compromise in terms of fitting or module choice. That is not how fitting a ship should go. You don't get max damage, max tank, and major utility.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2013-01-22 07:48:12 UTC
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
A squid questioning my solo credentials /o\


Nobody questions the power of your Loki. Your frigate alts that pose as "solo" pvpers, now thats a completely different story, isn't it?



I have a loki? O_O

How can i have a loki without minmatar cruiser V? /o\

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-01-23 00:20:44 UTC
Logon to Singularity, they just made it the current test server again with a new mirror and it has the battlecruiser changes.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#18 - 2013-01-23 02:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
I see the Drake as being in the same position as the Hurricane.

The ferox will be good but most people already have Drakes in their hangers.

Considering flying all my Drakes into a frog blob before it's nerfed/ruined and hopefully kill a few of them in the process.
Might even visit the spazos on Kinakka/Onammon gate if no frogs around. But the kinakka gate camp spazos can't pvp so I would rather fight the frogs and have a good fight if the opportunity is there.

CCP pretend they want people to boost on grid then say they will remove the utility slot from the main Caldari BC.

So many contradictions that I am sure that CCP staff don't talk to each other anymore and individually break whatever area of the game they feel least competent to work on that day.

When the Heavy Missile nerf that has already happened is added to this - why bother with Drake.
The -10 pg and cpu will nerf HAM fits in a very negative way - wait till you try fit your lows. It is tight to fit one now even with maxed skills.

I seems in FW Battlecruisers are already not used a lot as it is so this is just gonna make them more obsolete for many players.

Naga and Nado are the only BC's I will bother with after the nerf hits.
Tiercide my ass - it's 'lets make Tier3 so attractive that people fly nothing else.'



For both Drake and Cain it is the same - Sell it or splode it cause no point flying it anymore.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#19 - 2013-01-23 02:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
You realize they intend to nerf tier 3 BC mobility, right?
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#20 - 2013-01-23 03:05:33 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:



For both Drake and Cain it is the same - Sell it or splode it cause no point flying it anymore.



I have about 20 Drake hulls & about 8 or 9 Hurricane Hulls.. I'm not very amused with CCP ATM..
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