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Industrial wardec counter mechanic
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Grenduk
Grey Manufacturing
#1 - 2013-01-21 17:28:22 UTC
Wardecs are perfect as is.
PVP corps can deny industrial corps access to their preferred play style because eve is a harsh and cold universe.

Problem is, it's not harsh and cold for the PVP corp. They get what they want without any consequences. We need a counter mechanic for industrial focused players that provides the same emergent gameplay fun!

I introduce the Marketdec. Corp A can bribe Concord to restrict all market interaction for Corp B. Now pvpers must mine and build their own stuff, thus forcing the industrial playstyle on them.

Same result for the other half of the game.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-01-21 17:33:42 UTC
That's not something that the industrial player is *doing*. If pvp corps attacking industrial corps only had to throw in the dec and walk away, then we'd be talking.

But pvp players are stalking you and fighting you and generally getting all the way up into your cheese fries. Why shouldn't you have to work to get up into our business?

Additionally, as an experienced user of game mechanics, I know that I would be using that same 'industrial dec' on you. And probably as many corps as I possibly could.

Remember, any tool given to you is also given to me, and vice versa.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Singular Snowflake
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-01-21 17:34:56 UTC
Grenduk wrote:
Wardecs are perfect as is.
PVP corps can deny industrial corps access to their preferred play style because eve is a harsh and cold universe.

Problem is, it's not harsh and cold for the PVP corp. They get what they want without any consequences. We need a counter mechanic for industrial focused players that provides the same emergent gameplay fun!

I introduce the Marketdec. Corp A can bribe Concord to restrict all market interaction for Corp B. Now pvpers must mine and build their own stuff, thus forcing the industrial playstyle on them.

Same result for the other half of the game.

I'd love to see this mechanic abused. Locking permitless miners out of markets perhaps?
Dave Stark
#4 - 2013-01-21 17:43:58 UTC
Singular Snowflake wrote:
Grenduk wrote:
Wardecs are perfect as is.
PVP corps can deny industrial corps access to their preferred play style because eve is a harsh and cold universe.

Problem is, it's not harsh and cold for the PVP corp. They get what they want without any consequences. We need a counter mechanic for industrial focused players that provides the same emergent gameplay fun!

I introduce the Marketdec. Corp A can bribe Concord to restrict all market interaction for Corp B. Now pvpers must mine and build their own stuff, thus forcing the industrial playstyle on them.

Same result for the other half of the game.

I'd love to see this mechanic abused. Locking permitless miners out of markets perhaps?

my wardec immune npc corp laughs at you.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-01-21 17:47:05 UTC
There is no 'other half of the game'. This is where people are going wrong. All corporations are capable of all aspects of Eve. All pilots in fact are capable of all aspects of Eve. Are you a miner? Learn to fly (the now very very capable) frigates and go fight the attackers. Most 'pvp' corps who wardec industrial corps are in fact NOT pvp corps, they are griefers who will quickly lose interest if they cant simply gank you.

Pvp corps look for people who will fight. Griefers look for industrial corps who are easy prey. The only exception to this are pvp corps who have been hired to attack indy corps or when indy corp pilots shoot their mouths off and annoy someone into wardeccing them.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Dave Stark
#6 - 2013-01-21 17:51:31 UTC
oh, also i think we just all missed the flaw of:

buy goods on an out of corp alt.
contract it to your other character.
totally ignore this entire mechanic.
Grenduk
Grey Manufacturing
#7 - 2013-01-21 17:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Grenduk
Dave Stark wrote:
oh, also i think we just all missed the flaw of:

buy goods on an out of corp alt.
contract it to your other character.
totally ignore this entire mechanic.


Isn't that all smart players do with wardecs anyway? Stay docked, contract to alts and red frog resulting in a contract and login game that sucks all the fun out?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-01-21 17:56:14 UTC
Grenduk wrote:
Now pvpers must mine and build their own stuff, thus forcing the industrial playstyle on them.
.

So you want to **** with my playstyle?

No, never, not ever.

Wonderful idea. Lets put in mechanic that make it so the PvPer is encouraged to circumvent every other industrialist. That's just awful.

NO, the PvP should be buying from ME. Not encouraged to build his own ****.
And no, "contracts" is not an alternative solution.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=195938&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=195937&find=unread

You fix wardecs by giving high sec corps the same kind of control null gets.
OWNERSHIP of things worth fighting to win or lose. It's why wardecs work in null and not in high sec. They have nothing to call their own, and therefore nothing to fight for.
Dave Stark
#9 - 2013-01-21 17:56:35 UTC
Grenduk wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
oh, also i think we just all missed the flaw of:

buy goods on an out of corp alt.
contract it to your other character.
totally ignore this entire mechanic.


Isn't that all smart players do with wardecs anyway? Stay docked, contract to alts and red frog resulting in a contract and login game that sucks all the fun out?


no, smart players disband and reform the corporation.
Grenduk
Grey Manufacturing
#10 - 2013-01-21 17:57:57 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Grenduk wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
oh, also i think we just all missed the flaw of:

buy goods on an out of corp alt.
contract it to your other character.
totally ignore this entire mechanic.


Isn't that all smart players do with wardecs anyway? Stay docked, contract to alts and red frog resulting in a contract and login game that sucks all the fun out?


no, smart players disband and reform the corporation.


Not with POS running research jobs.
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#11 - 2013-01-21 17:58:57 UTC
How about? Hire merc's beceause you are playing the industrial side of the game to make money. Therefore you have money to pay such merc's

 ♥ 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2013-01-21 18:01:09 UTC
This already exists. It's called “wardecs” and/or “allies” and it's available to industrial corps right now.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-21 18:23:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
This already exists. It's called “wardecs” and/or “allies” and it's available to industrial corps right now.

Of course it already exists.

The incentive to ally, to grow, and to fight does not though.

People disband or drop corp when there's a wardec. It's becaue they have nothing to lose.

Why do people in null not do this?
We have something to lose if we did.


CCP is going to make changes to high sec industry, and they're trying to find ways to give meaning to high sec wardecs.

If you give players conrol of something worthwhile, they'll fight for it.
Wardecs, regardless of the area you play, should not be about gaining legal targets, it should be about fighting over tangible things.

That's why there's a problem with high sec wardecs. You have nothing tangible to fight for, and everyone uses it to gain legal targets.


Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-01-21 18:28:06 UTC
Grenduk wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Grenduk wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
oh, also i think we just all missed the flaw of:

buy goods on an out of corp alt.
contract it to your other character.
totally ignore this entire mechanic.


Isn't that all smart players do with wardecs anyway? Stay docked, contract to alts and red frog resulting in a contract and login game that sucks all the fun out?


no, smart players disband and reform the corporation.


Not with POS running research jobs.

Nonsense. People abanbon PoS's all the time.

And the PoS isn't a station. They don't function like a station. Not everyone can use a PoS, even within a corp. There's enough psots around about changing the PoS's because of issues with mechanics.

The PoS should be an "everyman" structure, and then high sec corps should be able to place stations in system where T2 production and high conentration ore is refined.

Then you can declare war becaue you want the station, and the guy you declared war on would have a need to fight for that station. As apoosed to declaring war on as many corps in high sec as you can in the hopes that you'll have legal targets.


We do not drop corp or disband in null because of wardecs. We have things that can be lost.
Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-21 18:29:51 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

my wardec immune npc corp laughs at you.


This 1000 times.

They are here for a reason. The same people that cry foul about you keeping an NPC alt would have no hesitation about Awox-ing your corp or disbanding your entire alliance with a meta alt. Don't let others dictate strategy unless you like being a follower.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-01-21 18:32:23 UTC
It doesn't even have to be all inclusive stations.

High sec corp finds a system they can drop a station. They get a choice.

A station for production of T2 goods.
A station for the refinging of high concentration ore.
A station for research and invention.

The station can only do one of those things, and it's up to the corporation to decide what it is it will do.

Players would go the NPC station to run missions, produce T2 goods, refine standard ores, to obtain datacorres.

Beyond that you should go a player run station, were you do not need to be a member of that corp, and that corp can set a higher line rate and lower refine rate for non members.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-01-21 18:37:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Jamyl Khanid wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

my wardec immune npc corp laughs at you.


This 1000 times.

They are here for a reason. The same people that cry foul about you keeping an NPC alt would have no hesitation about Awox-ing your corp or disbanding your entire alliance with a meta alt. Don't let others dictate strategy unless you like being a follower.

What do you mean, "here for a reason".


Some of you aren't paying attention.

CCP is going to make a change. They've already mentioned the possibility of moving T2 production to .7 and lower systems. That means some people, not in a player run corp, would end up not being able to produce T2 goods.

I'm cool with that. However, I'd like a solution that BUFFS the player run corp, not nerfing people who dont' want to play in a player run corp or in low and null sec.
Dave Stark
#18 - 2013-01-21 18:40:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Jamyl Khanid wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

my wardec immune npc corp laughs at you.


This 1000 times.

They are here for a reason. The same people that cry foul about you keeping an NPC alt would have no hesitation about Awox-ing your corp or disbanding your entire alliance with a meta alt. Don't let others dictate strategy unless you like being a follower.


not even an npc alt, it's a main character. as the goon so eloquently points out, there's nothing in high sec worth fighting or owning, so why not sit in a wardec immune npc corp?
Grenduk
Grey Manufacturing
#19 - 2013-01-21 18:42:57 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Jamyl Khanid wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

my wardec immune npc corp laughs at you.


This 1000 times.

They are here for a reason. The same people that cry foul about you keeping an NPC alt would have no hesitation about Awox-ing your corp or disbanding your entire alliance with a meta alt. Don't let others dictate strategy unless you like being a follower.


not even an npc alt, it's a main character. as the goon so eloquently points out, there's nothing in high sec worth fighting or owning so why not sit in a wardec immune npc corp?


Personally, a few reasons. 1) T2 invention. 2) 0.75 production in a POS 3) JC access to 0.0 PI 4) social aspects
Dave Stark
#20 - 2013-01-21 18:48:16 UTC
Grenduk wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Jamyl Khanid wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

my wardec immune npc corp laughs at you.


This 1000 times.

They are here for a reason. The same people that cry foul about you keeping an NPC alt would have no hesitation about Awox-ing your corp or disbanding your entire alliance with a meta alt. Don't let others dictate strategy unless you like being a follower.


not even an npc alt, it's a main character. as the goon so eloquently points out, there's nothing in high sec worth fighting or owning so why not sit in a wardec immune npc corp?


Personally, a few reasons. 1) T2 invention. 2) 0.75 production in a POS 3) JC access to 0.0 PI 4) social aspects


and as a miner i have no interest in any of those. hence, npc corp.
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