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Do many EVE players fear consentual PvP?
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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-01-21 17:49:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
I doubt people are going to start having duels instead of wars. Or duels instead of gatecamps. Lol
I'm not talking about behaviour — I'm talking about mechanics.

All mechanics for consensual combat are encapsulated within the mechanics of non-consensual combat, and no consensual combat can ever be allowed to exist outside the real of non-consensual engagements.

Thus, consensual mechanics are either unnecessary or game-breaking. Either way, there's no point in or need to add them.

I agree with this. Nothing should be introduced that prevents someone from "crashing your party".

If you have an arena, or tournament tools, then I should be able to actually crash your contest.
The tools to have arena style tournaments would be fine, but not if it also comes with mechanics that prevent others from being douches and interupting it.


Arenas all day long as far as I'm concerned, but I better be able to witness it in person, and be able to crash it if I choose.
Otherwise it doesn't really have any business in EVE.

You can enter someone elses mission space, you should be able to enter someones arena space as well.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#22 - 2013-01-21 17:51:39 UTC

If you want consensual PvP then I want consensual market prices.

Is it wrong to have PvP "enforced" and not consensual? Then why should I've your market prices enforced to me? I want to consensually decide what I've to pay!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#23 - 2013-01-21 17:52:11 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Roime wrote:
The value people get from PVP is only made possible by the presence of real risk, uncontrollable events.


But through planning ahead and picking your fights to make sure you're going to win, things become very controlled and lack risk.


Don't you see that someone out there can plan better ahead and pick you, if he thinks he has a chance to win?

My point is that EVE PVP can never be 100% controlled, and mitigating the risk is a player skill, not a game mechanic.

.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-01-21 17:52:12 UTC
Roime wrote:
How is it "more hardcore" than flying out solo and finding a fight?

Why is this mechanic needed?

Because what you speak of is more rare than yeti.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-01-21 17:52:28 UTC
I always thought EVE was based around the idea that you consent to PvP of some variety just by logging in and doing stuff. Undock and maybe get shot at. Try to buy/sell stuff and maybe get outbid or price gouged. Try to build a corp, and have it instantly infested with AWOXers and spies. An "arena" is totally superfluous, since PvP is already everywhere. If you want to PvP just go PvP. The whole world is your arena.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2013-01-21 17:54:18 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
I agree with this. Nothing should be introduced that prevents someone from "crashing your party".

If you have an arena, or tournament tools, then I should be able to actually crash your contest.
The tools to have arena style tournaments would be fine, but not if it also comes with mechanics that prevent others from being douches and interupting it.

Arenas all day long as far as I'm concerned, but I better be able to witness it in person, and be able to crash it if I choose.
Otherwise it doesn't really have any business in EVE.
…and at that point, it has very little to do with arenas, and rather revolves around the “betting office”, presumably some expansion or generalisation of the bounty and war report systems.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#27 - 2013-01-21 17:57:25 UTC
Roime wrote:
Don't you see that someone out there can plan better ahead and pick you, if he thinks he has a chance to win?


The people who know how to pick their fights just move on to easier prey if they see that someone may have planned better. Why take the risk?

Killboard efficiency is srs bsns.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#28 - 2013-01-21 17:57:32 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Throughout the history of this game, PvP has mostly revolved around attacking people who are unprepared for PvP,,,

You should always be prepared for PvP.

In response to others, arena combat used to be a reality. And it is odd that a canon that includes a slave/master dichotomy does not have some form of arena combat, especially in the Amarr region. I even think Gladiators are mentioned in a couple missions.

I don't care either way, I just think some of the arguments against it are pretty weak.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-01-21 17:58:24 UTC
Myrissa Kistel wrote:
Cause 1v1 duals is not really PVP. Might as well open up a chat channel with your oppenent and type in /random, highest number wins.




I dont agree wit hthis. 1 on 1 duels are PvP. To look at real world examples, look at outlaw duels in the old west or Samurai duels. PvP can totally be a one on one affair.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#30 - 2013-01-21 18:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Nexus Day wrote:
You should always be prepared for PvP.


And i agree to a point. Like when mining you give up a little yield to make it harder for people to gank you. But just being in a mining vessel makes you far less prepared for PvP than someone in a combat ship.

People have to do other things in EVE, so they can't always be equally prepared for PvP as someone who is out to PvP.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#31 - 2013-01-21 18:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
Bane Necran wrote:


Why do so many people think that's a bad thing?



Because every other MMO offers exactly the same thing and have better, faster, and more balanced pvp? If I wanted "gud fites" with no consequences I'd play Tanks or Planes. This ain't a pvp or pve game it's a simulator....those are never "fair".


Forgot to add that the test server is the best place for these types of fights and always has been.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-01-21 18:05:29 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Throughout the history of this game, PvP has mostly revolved around attacking people who are unprepared for PvP,,,

You should always be prepared for PvP.

In response to others, arena combat used to be a reality. And it is odd that a canon that includes a slave/master dichotomy does not have some form of arena combat, especially in the Amarr region. I even think Gladiators are mentioned in a couple missions.

I don't care either way, I just think some of the arguments against it are pretty weak.

Can't your ship can't be prepared for PVE/ Industry and PVP. Must be those darn broken game mechanics again.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#33 - 2013-01-21 18:16:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
People always afraid of things which threaten their life style and stability. Even if their life style is ****** and new things are good - for many stability is still preferred option.
Klown Walk
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-01-21 18:17:58 UTC
Fighting outnumbered is the most fun you can have in eve imo. I don't understand why people want 1v1.
Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-01-21 18:25:22 UTC
Understand how propaganda works, OP.

Go to Jita, block out the spam and the scam and there is usually a conversation going on under all that. You only need to block 20 characters to get there but that 20 out of 2300 make a lot of noise.

GD has that 20 as well. It doesn't make much difference what they say though, or how many threads they derail. CCP replied to one of the original arena/ hunger games suggestions and they like the idea.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#36 - 2013-01-21 18:35:31 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Roime wrote:
Don't you see that someone out there can plan better ahead and pick you, if he thinks he has a chance to win?


The people who know how to pick their fights just move on to easier prey if they see that someone may have planned better. Why take the risk?

Killboard efficiency is srs bsns.


So why is this duel mechanic needed then, if PVP is already risk-free?

Getting epic fights is srs bsns, and you'll never get them if you are afraid losing.

Also, why not try real EVE combat before forming an opionion?

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#37 - 2013-01-21 18:36:50 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
People always afraid of things which threaten their life style and stability. Even if their life style is ****** and new things are good - for many stability is still preferred option.


These kinds of mechanics threaten the very core of EVE, and not a single person has managed to present any reasons why limited duels and arenas are "good", or even necessary.

.
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#38 - 2013-01-21 18:36:53 UTC
Roime wrote:
How is it "more hardcore" than flying out solo and finding a fight?

Why is this mechanic needed?

Why is it not needed?

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
Google Voices
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-01-21 18:40:56 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Throughout the history of this game, PvP has mostly revolved around attacking people who are unprepared for PvP, or simply outnumbering your opponent. You make sure you're going to win before you even engage, and there is little risk involved if you plan ahead. This is what your average EVE PvP player has grown accustomed to, and some are quite good at it.

Reading the negative comments on the so-called 'arena' system, you hear a lot of people saying it's more suited to carebears or something, but what could be more hardcore than a 1v1 fight between two ships fitted for PvP, with no friends to save either of them? You are on an even footing with your opponent, and only your personal ability and intelligence can save you.

Why do so many people think that's a bad thing?



Because the vaunted PvPer's are mostly gankers that couldn't fight a fair fight if it slapped them in the face.

EVE attracts the worst dregs of humanity with it's open sandbox concept.
It also attracts some really good smart people, but most of them get tired of the behavior of the kiddy pirate fanbase and leave....


"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle."
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#40 - 2013-01-21 18:43:43 UTC
Ancy Denaries wrote:
Roime wrote:
How is it "more hardcore" than flying out solo and finding a fight?

Why is this mechanic needed?

Why is it not needed?


Because you can already fight agreed duels, and real fights.

Now tell me why do you think it's needed?

.