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Crime & Punishment

 
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Collective front launched against the New Order, James315 and miner bumping.

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Syaran
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#621 - 2013-01-21 15:52:10 UTC
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
If this type of gameplay is allowed encourage then I should be allowed to shoot bombs in highsec and lowsec


There's a difference between being 'allowed' and not getting any repercussions. As I said, high-sec is 'safer', which means that while you CAN do certain things, it gets you concorded. If it was SAFE then it would be made impossible to do these things. The fact that you can shoot players at all in high-sec proves this. Instead of 'encouraged' it is actually DIScouraged, since it is guaranteed to cause you to lose the ship. Nevertheless it is still allowed, otherwise it would be made impossible, which is not that difficult to do really...

I don't understand your argument really, all you see is black and white, is there no grey in your world? There's a middle ground between 'high-sec 100% safe-' and '100% unsafe'. This middle ground is where the game is currently, meaning both sides have the opportunity to enjoy the kind of gameplay they want. It's still a multiplayer game though, so yes, you might occasionally encounter someone who wants to play the game in a way different from your own.

I'm starting to feel like a broken record here...
Emperor Crash Zues
Guns N'Ore
#622 - 2013-01-21 16:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Emperor Crash Zues
Murk Paradox wrote:
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
Syaran wrote:
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Well their kills do not range in billions, their kills are mostly around 200-250mil, bot capsules are usually worthless, by that meaning that most bot users will not plug their bot toons with expensive implants.

I don't disagree with the attacking of the bots, that is against the rules and that should be punished, however I do disagree with them targeting players that are at keyboards and extorting Isk from them. If they killed 1 non bot in 100 kills, for the reason of getting rid of bots, it is one to many.



You're forgetting something. Something that's been said over and over again but you conveniently choose to ignore it. Your way of playing this game is NOT the only one. High-sec is NOT safe, only safer. Every time you undock, you run the risk of losing whatever you undocked. If they are not completely on the straight and narrow...well that's eve for you. Personally, having once been part of a pirate corp, I know that it's not at all easy to keep a leash on pirates that are hungry for blood.

In the end, all I see here is a bunch of people trying to have their own brand of fun. It's obviously not your brand of fun but it is still well within the boundaries of this sandbox world we all choose to dwell in. We all have our opinions on how this game should be, but that doesn't change the rules of the game in any way. The options open to people here are very clear and very limited: either deal with this aspect of the way you chose to play this game, or avoid it. Losing stuff is a part of EVE, if it wasn't your very way of playing the game would not be viable, as there would be little to no demand for the ore you mine.

(Incidentally, I'm not a part of this New Order in any way, I'm just amused by what they do and I enjoy a good discussion. Unfortunately it seems you are unwilling to entertain the thought that there might be other ways of viewing this issue that are just as legitimate if not even more legitimate than your own. That makes it hard to have a good discussion...)

If this type of gameplay is allowed encourage then I should be allowed to shoot bombs in highsec and lowsec



You can. Just the repercussion of that is you might get concorded.

really i was under the impression from a corp member that ccp had a thing that bombers couldn't launch there payload at all in high or low sec only null? If this is not the case then NO agents and knights and I need to have a chat someday. lol
Emperor Crash Zues
Guns N'Ore
#623 - 2013-01-21 16:20:39 UTC
Syaran wrote:
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
If this type of gameplay is allowed encourage then I should be allowed to shoot bombs in highsec and lowsec


There's a difference between being 'allowed' and not getting any repercussions. As I said, high-sec is 'safer', which means that while you CAN do certain things, it gets you concorded. If it was SAFE then it would be made impossible to do these things. The fact that you can shoot players at all in high-sec proves this. Instead of 'encouraged' it is actually DIScouraged, since it is guaranteed to cause you to lose the ship. Nevertheless it is still allowed, otherwise it would be made impossible, which is not that difficult to do really...

I don't understand your argument really, all you see is black and white, is there no grey in your world? There's a middle ground between 'high-sec 100% safe-' and '100% unsafe'. This middle ground is where the game is currently, meaning both sides have the opportunity to enjoy the kind of gameplay they want. It's still a multiplayer game though, so yes, you might occasionally encounter someone who wants to play the game in a way different from your own.

I'm starting to feel like a broken record here...

sorry that you feel that way. Yes there is a grey area in my world but not when it comes to NO's actions with extortion and there cult. Yes i have a black and white view more often then not. If you are a friend to me and my corp then your in the white, hurt someone thats is a brothers in arms or what I consider an injustice then you are in the black. I will look at the reason and/or cause of the topic before I label them in one side or the other. And just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#624 - 2013-01-21 16:27:41 UTC
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
sorry that you feel that way. Yes there is a grey area in my world but not when it comes to NO's actions with extortion and there cult. Yes i have a black and white view more often then not. If you are a friend to me and my corp then your in the white, hurt someone thats is a brothers in arms or what I consider an injustice then you are in the black. I will look at the reason and/or cause of the topic before I label them in one side or the other. And just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

So wait - are you saying that you disapprove of what the New Order is doing, or are you saying that CCP ought to disapprove of what we're doing and change the mechanics?
Emperor Crash Zues
Guns N'Ore
#625 - 2013-01-21 16:36:28 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
sorry that you feel that way. Yes there is a grey area in my world but not when it comes to NO's actions with extortion and there cult. Yes i have a black and white view more often then not. If you are a friend to me and my corp then your in the white, hurt someone thats is a brothers in arms or what I consider an injustice then you are in the black. I will look at the reason and/or cause of the topic before I label them in one side or the other. And just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

So wait - are you saying that you disapprove of what the New Order is doing, or are you saying that CCP ought to disapprove of what we're doing and change the mechanics?

Yes and yes/no. I disapprove of NO'S tactics as I''ve made plain before on this forum topic and yes i think CCP ought to disapprove of your actions publicly or put out a disclaim saying they have no association with you guys or your tactics since i have seen several knight's saying that what they do is CCP Sanctioned which I highly doubt. As for changing the mechanics no they should leave it alone cause how else can i strike at you if they did change them. lol And beside when CCP changes things they normally screw it up royally like any government does.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#626 - 2013-01-21 16:42:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kainotomiu Ronuken
Oh, but bumping expressly isallowed and as for ganking, there's never been any question about it.
Emperor Crash Zues
Guns N'Ore
#627 - 2013-01-21 16:46:50 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Oh, but bumping expressly isallowed and as for ganking, there's never been any question about it.

im not talking about whether its allowed or not, but to say its sanction gives the idea that CCP personally came to you guys saying to go out and kill afk miners in Highsec. Which we all know full well they would never do.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#628 - 2013-01-21 16:49:12 UTC
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
sorry that you feel that way. Yes there is a grey area in my world but not when it comes to NO's actions with extortion and there cult. Yes i have a black and white view more often then not. If you are a friend to me and my corp then your in the white, hurt someone thats is a brothers in arms or what I consider an injustice then you are in the black. I will look at the reason and/or cause of the topic before I label them in one side or the other. And just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

So wait - are you saying that you disapprove of what the New Order is doing, or are you saying that CCP ought to disapprove of what we're doing and change the mechanics?

Yes and yes/no. I disapprove of NO'S tactics as I''ve made plain before on this forum topic and yes i think CCP ought to disapprove of your actions publicly or put out a disclaim saying they have no association with you guys or your tactics since i have seen several knight's saying that what they do is CCP Sanctioned which I highly doubt. As for changing the mechanics no they should leave it alone cause how else can i strike at you if they did change them. lol And beside when CCP changes things they normally screw it up royally like any government does.


What the New Order has been doing is implicitly sanctioned because the mechanics exist to let us do it. It's like questioning whether or not Valve is ok with people firing the rocket launcher in TF2. Yes, they obviously are because they implemented those mechanics. Even moving beyond the fact that the bloody mechanics themselves show these are things that are ok to do, there have been hundreds of petitions and each and every one has resulted in a GM saying getting bumped or ganked is fine. There's also been a few devs that have explicitly stated on the forums that these actions are fine.

And to top it off, why oh why would CCP disapprove of or attempt to distance themselves from what constantly gets EVE attention and fame - the freedoms the players have to be ruthless, and emergent gameplay?
Emperor Crash Zues
Guns N'Ore
#629 - 2013-01-21 16:56:21 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
sorry that you feel that way. Yes there is a grey area in my world but not when it comes to NO's actions with extortion and there cult. Yes i have a black and white view more often then not. If you are a friend to me and my corp then your in the white, hurt someone thats is a brothers in arms or what I consider an injustice then you are in the black. I will look at the reason and/or cause of the topic before I label them in one side or the other. And just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

So wait - are you saying that you disapprove of what the New Order is doing, or are you saying that CCP ought to disapprove of what we're doing and change the mechanics?

Yes and yes/no. I disapprove of NO'S tactics as I''ve made plain before on this forum topic and yes i think CCP ought to disapprove of your actions publicly or put out a disclaim saying they have no association with you guys or your tactics since i have seen several knight's saying that what they do is CCP Sanctioned which I highly doubt. As for changing the mechanics no they should leave it alone cause how else can i strike at you if they did change them. lol And beside when CCP changes things they normally screw it up royally like any government does.


What the New Order has been doing is implicitly sanctioned because the mechanics exist to let us do it. It's like questioning whether or not Valve is ok with people firing the rocket launcher in TF2. Yes, they obviously are because they implemented those mechanics. Even moving beyond the fact that the bloody mechanics themselves show these are things that are ok to do, there have been hundreds of petitions and each and every one has resulted in a GM saying getting bumped or ganked is fine. There's also been a few devs that have explicitly stated on the forums that these actions are fine.

And to top it off, why oh why would CCP disapprove of or attempt to distance themselves from what constantly gets EVE attention and fame - the freedoms the players have to be ruthless, and emergent gameplay?

though i disapprove you have a point
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#630 - 2013-01-21 17:01:07 UTC
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
If this type of gameplay is allowed encourage then I should be allowed to shoot bombs in highsec and lowsec
I feel this brings up an important question. Should the New Order be allowed to fire bombs in highsec? I think yes!
Emperor Crash Zues
Guns N'Ore
#631 - 2013-01-21 17:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Emperor Crash Zues
Benny Ohu wrote:
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
If this type of gameplay is allowed encourage then I should be allowed to shoot bombs in highsec and lowsec
I feel this brings up an important question. Should the New Order be allowed to fire bombs in highsec? I think yes!

they seem to like up close and personal attack on there targets mostly cause from what i've seen catalyst are cheaper to replace then a bomber.
Alana Charen-Teng
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#632 - 2013-01-21 17:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alana Charen-Teng
Let us all pause for a moment of silence, as we contemplate the recent words of CCP Solomon.

...the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP).
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#633 - 2013-01-21 18:59:01 UTC
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
Syaran wrote:
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Well their kills do not range in billions, their kills are mostly around 200-250mil, bot capsules are usually worthless, by that meaning that most bot users will not plug their bot toons with expensive implants.

I don't disagree with the attacking of the bots, that is against the rules and that should be punished, however I do disagree with them targeting players that are at keyboards and extorting Isk from them. If they killed 1 non bot in 100 kills, for the reason of getting rid of bots, it is one to many.



You're forgetting something. Something that's been said over and over again but you conveniently choose to ignore it. Your way of playing this game is NOT the only one. High-sec is NOT safe, only safer. Every time you undock, you run the risk of losing whatever you undocked. If they are not completely on the straight and narrow...well that's eve for you. Personally, having once been part of a pirate corp, I know that it's not at all easy to keep a leash on pirates that are hungry for blood.

In the end, all I see here is a bunch of people trying to have their own brand of fun. It's obviously not your brand of fun but it is still well within the boundaries of this sandbox world we all choose to dwell in. We all have our opinions on how this game should be, but that doesn't change the rules of the game in any way. The options open to people here are very clear and very limited: either deal with this aspect of the way you chose to play this game, or avoid it. Losing stuff is a part of EVE, if it wasn't your very way of playing the game would not be viable, as there would be little to no demand for the ore you mine.

(Incidentally, I'm not a part of this New Order in any way, I'm just amused by what they do and I enjoy a good discussion. Unfortunately it seems you are unwilling to entertain the thought that there might be other ways of viewing this issue that are just as legitimate if not even more legitimate than your own. That makes it hard to have a good discussion...)

If this type of gameplay is allowed encourage then I should be allowed to shoot bombs in highsec and lowsec



You can. Just the repercussion of that is you might get concorded.

really i was under the impression from a corp member that ccp had a thing that bombers couldn't launch there payload at all in high or low sec only null? If this is not the case then NO agents and knights and I need to have a chat someday. lol



Oh, you mean like from a stealth bomber. Smartbombs are done, erroneously, in belts all the time.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#634 - 2013-01-21 19:00:30 UTC
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Oh, but bumping expressly isallowed and as for ganking, there's never been any question about it.

im not talking about whether its allowed or not, but to say its sanction gives the idea that CCP personally came to you guys saying to go out and kill afk miners in Highsec. Which we all know full well they would never do.



CCP doesn't tell you to go out and mine either.

They leave the decisions up to you.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#635 - 2013-01-21 20:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Trask
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:

im not talking about whether its allowed or not, but to say its sanction gives the idea that CCP personally came to you guys saying to go out and kill afk miners in Highsec. Which we all know full well they would never do.


CCP has personally sanctioned highsec ganking for whatever reason the Ganker desires.

In fact, they advertized their newest tier 3 battlecruisers as ganking platforms in the adverts leading up to the release of Inferno.

CCP has more than endorsed ganking of inattentive players in highsec, for either loot, or pure tears. In fact, adding implants to kill mails did absolutely nothing but enhance tear collections.

No, CCP has never contacted us and said " Start gankin' them miners". But they have repeatedly supported all highsec ganking in the past. Do not hold your breath waiting for CCP to reverse this position.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#636 - 2013-01-21 23:25:02 UTC
I fully endorse and desire the implementation of letting SB's use their bombs in Hisec..:)

CCP, make it so. Thousands of players are with me on this.


I also want to see bubbles too.

Cool

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Alana Charen-Teng
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#637 - 2013-01-22 01:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Alana Charen-Teng
Mike Adoulin wrote:
I fully endorse and desire the implementation of letting SB's use their bombs in Hisec..:)

CCP, make it so. Thousands of players are with me on this.


I also want to see bubbles too.

Cool


Suicide interdictors and suicide bombers in highsec... that's going to be a lot of dead exhumers!

Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
It is amusing that this thread has lasted three weeks longer than the Tolero Guard itself.

It will last a while longer!
Emperor Crash Zues
Guns N'Ore
#638 - 2013-01-22 13:32:28 UTC
Alana Charen-Teng wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
I fully endorse and desire the implementation of letting SB's use their bombs in Hisec..:)

CCP, make it so. Thousands of players are with me on this.

P
I also want to see bubbles too.

Cool


Suicide interdictors and suicide bombers in highsec... that's going to be a lot of dead exhumers!

Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
It is amusing that this thread has lasted three weeks longer than the Tolero Guard itself.

It will last a while longer!

I thought that would make you guys happy
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#639 - 2013-01-22 18:51:29 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Well their kills do not range in billions, their kills are mostly around 200-250mil, bot capsules are usually worthless, by that meaning that most bot users will not plug their bot toons with expensive implants.

I don't disagree with the attacking of the bots, that is against the rules and that should be punished, however I do disagree with them targeting players that are at keyboards and extorting Isk from them. If they killed 1 non bot in 100 kills, for the reason of getting rid of bots, it is one to many.




Again, check their killboard if you do not wish to take my word for it.

And you don't need to agree with it. It's a valid game mechanic. You yourself even mentioned that the miner who did get popped was reimbursed. By all means, argue with pirates if it makes you feel better once they blow you up after you have paid a ransom.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Alana Charen-Teng
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#640 - 2013-01-23 05:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alana Charen-Teng
Agent's Log - Jan 23, YC whatever

Dear Diary,

Today, Deninard was positively rife with bot-aspirancy. AFK miners littered the icebelt, with nary a word spoken in Local. I arrived just in time to enforce the Code with my Amazing Stabber. Many miners were bumped out of range, because the Code is worth fighting for! An angry miner challenged me to a duel, but since he was unable to pass any of the proper Tests, he was unworthy of my time. I have noticed a new trend, of late - rebel miners have begun moving away from careers in Space Law, in favor of careers in Space Psychology. Chat logs follow.

Alana Charen-Teng > I try and I try... but miners still don't get it.
castle2 keep > no i refuse to pay EXTORSON
Rueger Aideron > as everyone should
Alana Charen-Teng > Luckily for you, this isn't Extortion. Think of it as a tax for the public good.
Vincent Viehlmasky > that does the public no good at all
Rueger Aideron > spoken just like an extortionist
castle2 keep > tax is from ccp ur a cult
Alana Charen-Teng > Rueger AideronSpoken just like a tax dodger!
Rueger Aideron > taxes can only be collected by lawful authority
Alana Charen-Teng > Rueger Aideron That's exactly what the New Order is! Hello!
Vincent Viehlmasky > not even close to being that
Rueger Aideron > yeah that is why all enforcer are criminal
Alana Charen-Teng > Well.. it's kind of like how Batman is technically an outlaw.
> But he's the Good Guy.

...

Vincent Viehlmasky > you do what you do to line your own pockets and boost your obviously failing self esteem
> how hard is that to admit to?
Alana Charen-Teng > Vincent Viehlmasky Do you reperesent a new breed of Space Psychologist?
> Because I question the quality of your credentials.

...

Jean Pelletier > Batman doesn't hijack trucks or kill miners, he kicks ass on egomaniacal guys that think they are above the law
Alana Charen-Teng > Jean Pelletier We don't hijack trucks, we kick the proverbial butts of rebel miners who think they're above the Code.
Vincent Viehlmasky > and who are you to set "code"?
Alana Charen-Teng > Vincent Viehlmasky We are the democratically-elected government of Highsec. Where have you been?
Vincent Viehlmasky > Alana Charen-Teng check again. no one elected you to do anything. you clearly need to get off the drugs
Alana Charen-Teng > Vincent Viehlmasky Your word against the Supreme Protector's? I think I know who I'll trust!
Vincent Viehlmasky > Alana Charen-Teng put down the crack pipe already

...

Mako5 > NoseCandy you do it to your self, name like nosecandy must be a loser , lol
Alana Charen-Teng > Mako5 There you go projecting yourself onto others again
Mako5 > ME , lol you are the one thats trying to project your [National Socialist German Workers' Party] leader onto others , I am only trying to show them that somebody is forming against you and all your kind, we want freedom, not ransom
Alana Charen-Teng > Mako5 Whoa - never argue with a space psychologist!
> I didn't realize Batman and Tarzan were [members of the National Socialist German Workers' Party]...
castle2 keep > o its the voices in ur head Alana Charen-Teng its ok they have meds for ur head
Alana Charen-Teng > castle2 keep space psychiatry, too!
> castle2 keep Is there anything you can't do?
Mako5 > James 315, sounds just like [Adolf, leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party], cant you guys think for your self and stop carring out HIS OREDRS
castle2 keep > lol he dent make the system ccp did
Vincent Viehlmasky > James 315 owns nothing and is far from the "father" of highsec
Alana Charen-Teng > Vincent Viehlmasky Do you live in some bizarro Highsec?
> Where the Code isn't the law of the proverbial land?

...

Mako5 > Dubious King yea they CAN if DUMB ASSES let them, but GOON MEN FIGHT for their rights , cowards follow losers
Alana Charen-Teng > Mako5 castle2 keep if you take issue with our policies, you are welcome to challenge us to a duel.
NoseCandy > Mako5 feel free to challenge james, when he arrives - if you have the nerve
Alana Charen-Teng > I wouldn't want to fight James 315 - it's hard to kill an Invincible Stabber.
castle2 keep > im in hi sec id LOVE 2 C him podded
Mako5 > lets go to losec and i will challange him and his ALT , lol
castle2 keep > he cast go 2 low hes not invenceable there LOL
Mako5 > and you if you are not the coward you seem to be
Alana Charen-Teng > Mako5 I'd feel safer being in lowsec with you, than in an empty system.

...

Alana Charen-Teng > Lola Dream please purchase a 10 mil Mining Permit, or risk bump and/or gank.
Lola Dream > :)
> how much are KR worth thse dayts?
Alana Charen-Teng > Lola Dream How much are Kill Rights worth? Not very much, for -10 gankers...
Lola Dream > to bad
Alana Charen-Teng > Railgun deimos?
> The list of things I've seen now contains everything!
> Jean Pelletier No greeting for an old friend?
> Have you considered forming a New Order Fanclub?
Jean Pelletier > ../..