Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hello Eve o/

At first: Even though I doubt this thread will change anything, please keep things on-topic and polite - let´s make this a proper discussion and no flame-war.

So we all know CCP are planning to remove offgrid-ganglinks, and it´s obvious that this will have a huge impact on both small and large scale PvP, I will be focusing on solo/small gang here though.

The first, and most obvious, consequence is the fact that larger gangs will be able to maintain links on field and running way easier than the smaller group engaging them, negating a possible force multiplier. The result of this is rather simple aswell - small gangs, apart from possibly superior piloting, skills and setups, won´t be able to engage as much anymore, which will eventually mean less fights for everyone.
Forcing links to be on grid also makes certain tactics, like fighting on different grids and warping around a lot to seperate blobs, way harder and certain gang setups considerably weaker to impossible simply because the requried link ships don´t fit into the rest of the gang.
Meanwhile, blobs will have no problem keeping their ganglink-ships alive and on field, giving them another huge advantage over the already smaller group engaging them.

Wow, that sounds pretty bad already, doesn´t it? The fight/hour ratio for roaming gangs, which has been getting worse constantly over the years of CCP ignoring small gang PVP already, will be hitting a point where many people just won´t do it anymore, and eventually quit eve.

But let´s take a look at "soloing", which for me means 1 human using x accounts (let´s not discuss this definition here).
Removing offgrid-boosts will practically make using them in solo pvp at all impossible without completely destroying your engageability - having a damnation sitting next to your triple-rep myrm just looks pretty scary, doesnt it?

So what´s the result of all this? People will get less and less fights both "solo" and in small gangs, plenty will quit, plenty will unsub they booster-accounts - noone is happy.


But why are CCP going to do this then? Let´s look at some current problems, people´s complaints aswell as possible and (in my opinion) better changes:

# People get "unfair" advantages in 1v1 thanks to links.
This is true and nothing nice, you could say the same thing about logi- or falcon-alts aswell though. I have seen many people complain about this especially in minmatar/amarr faction warfare area, where linkalts are basically sitting afk in towers in every system with fleet adverts up.
A possible change to this is removing the ability to give boosts when inside a POS, forcing T3-boosters to savespots at least. This would also force mining-fleets into bringing their booster to a save/the site/belt, creating another way to force fights.

# (almost) unprobeable T3-boosters on savespots are an unbalanced force mulitplier compared to Falcons, logis or sheer numbers
I totally agree here too, especially when comparing them to Command Ships, who not only boost less, but are also way more vulnerable while boosting and traveling.
So what to change? At first, we should give Command Ships the same boosting-bonus, making them a viable alternative. Another, in my opinion, great way to even things out a little between CS and T3 is adding a signature radius "bonus" to running links, i.e. make active ganglinks bloom your sig by X %, which would solve the problem of unprobeable T3s.

With these changes, we´re looking at a choice between versatile and robust Command Ships for immediate on-grid-boosting or T3s that can travel and move safely, but are easy to probe, pin down and kill while boosting delayed from a savespot.
Sounds nicely balanced and reasonable, doesn´t it?

I really hope CCP will take a look at this again and change their minds a little, because the removal of offgrid-links will hurt solo and small gang PVP as much as no single change did before, and will cause a considerable amount of players quit the game or at least unsub certain accounts.


Another idea that has been floating around certain forum threads and discussions is some kind of compromise between the complete removal of offgrid-boosting and the changes I proposed here. I wouldn´t be too happy about something like this either, but obviously still prefer this over no offgrid-links at all:
Scripts for ganglink-modules - without a script loaded, links work offgrid and bloom your signature radius considerably, with some kind of "focused" script loaded, they´re limited to ongrid-boosting, but are more effective and don´t bloom your sig anymore.
This still favors blobs because they can keep the superior boosts on field and thus isn´t a good change either, but still better than a complete removal.


Feel free to post your ideas and opinions here, "like" this thread if you agree with me and start a big discussion to wake CCP up and take a look at their plans.

Dali out o7

Off grid links are one of the worst things ever added to eve.


Making t3 links unable to work from POS's or be easier to probe would do nothing to help a truly small gang 1-5 since they won't have a prober.


A ship giving massive bonuses without ever needing to be on field is a bad mechanic. Links need to be A) Nerfed to hell B) Brought on grid. That way they would still be great for bigger gangs/fleets without completely ******* over people without them.


If a falon or logi warps on grid with you it can potentially **** up your fight, but you see it right away and you can potentially force it off.




Maybe after the change your small gang instead of having OGB will have say.. a cane with a link in its utility? (The thing its sorta bonused for)





PS. I'm saying this as the owner of a maxed booster alt, links are broken as ****.

Take links from behind POS force fields? Sure.

Buff Command Ships and make them a higher risk, higher reward option for fleets? Makes sense.

Buff Command Ships so that they, as a specialized hull, offer stronger bonuses then T3s for ganglinks? Certainly.

Buff Command Ships so that they have bonuses to more then one link type while leaving T3s only bonused for one? Sounds logical.

Make command T3s more vulnerable and risky by making them more probe able or easier to catch? Why not?

Create "Dead Zones" (deadspace pockets such as faction warfare complexes) where external command links/bonuses lose effectiveness? Maybe. It gives players a space to force fights where they won't be at a disadvantage (if linkless) and create more dynamic gameplay without completely removing offgrid links all together.

Anything that removes tools for individuals and small gang PVP organizations to up engage against "the blob" is poor game design. Dedicating 1/2, or 1/10 your fleet to links is much more severe then dedicating 1/30 or 1/100 of your fleet to links.

Dont you know that ccp loves the blob, and loves to sh*** on small gang corps or solo players.
Nerf the asb, introduce a bullsh*** eccm skills that dont help jack for the perma jam problem or ecm problem, killl the off grid links, CCP wtf you thinking!

Make off-grid links vulnerable. They don't work inside POS shields and they lose effectiveness based on the sensor strength of the ship pushing them. IE if you make your ship unprobeable, your links don't do a thing.

Small gangs can employ force multipliers as well. It's easier for the larger gang to keep ~any~ ship on field, nothing special about boosting ships.

The solution to the issue of boosting ships not being able to fit in smaller/faster gangs is to allow links to be used on smaller/faster ships instead.

Every random person with a dumb suggestion always claims that small gang PVP has been decreasing over the years but I have not seen a whit of evidence for it.


Um, no. It will save people who do not use link alts a ton of frustration and the only thing lost is an easy button. The only person who should be unhappy with this change is the person who is awful and cannot otherwise compete.



I should be able to go out and PVP without having to have to bring along a perfect-skilled scanning alt with a Virtue set in order to find the opponent's booster, which is what would be required to scan down a booster with appropriate ECCM. Or, the boosting alts could just sit on a station and dock up if they get aggressed, then proceed to undock and hand out boosts as soon as the main gets engaged. The only thing removing links from POSes would do is make this infuriating mechanic slightly less AFKable.



Even if we assumed that you could force boosters out into safespots and make them easy to probe it would still be a crap mechanic and it would still force solo and small gang players to bring along probing alts. Ironically the group least hurt by these changes are the blobs, the ones most likely to have the resources to do stuff like probe down and gank boosting alts.




...you only need one link alt to affect an entire fleet, and when your fleet consists of 100 people you're far more likely to have one with a link alt than a fleet of 10.

Here is my solution that addresses the issues in OP (including also the implied issues ;-) :

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=193317&find=unread

Basically a solution that brings them on grid, but benefits small gangs more than large, and makes booster an interesting role, instead of something done by alt-tabbed alts.

Removing OGB will revive 1. using BC's to provide a link 2. Using command ships to do so (More than buffing command ships EVER will)

That of course would require you to make the linky ships more viable on field but its better than them just sitting somewhere.





The only reason off grid boosting hasn't been removed yet is a coding issue. Fozzie is basically waiting on CCP veritas to show up and tell him he's fixed it.

Grids themselves are ancient artifacts, when no other solution could be implemented that could actually work. And those restrictions in the 10 year old code are the sole reason off-grid boosters work. CCP stated numerous times that they are working on it, but its not an easy task.

1. Thats not solo thats duo.
2. and you mean people won'twant to fight you and your ship that massively powers up your other one? Like how people don't like 1v1ing someone with a guardian on grid? They wont just lose because of invisible bonuses they didnt know you had? terrible.




Your definition of solo is seriously ****** up.