Player Features and Ideas Discussion

High sec industrial power should be a result of player run corporations in high sec.

I feel this is a point that is lost among many of the other threads here, and something that we should be having serious discussion about.

I feel that this could have a huge positive impact on EVE as a whole.


High sec is an industrial powerhouse.
Currently all of that power lies in the hands of the NPC corporations though. It is my opinion that the NPC corporations should not have such a large reward. High sec industry is a huge reward, and should be given entirely to the player run corporations in high sec.

High sec corporations should have control over advanced industry in high sec.
Those people that work within a player run corporations in high sec should be rewarded by having control over the industrial power there.

Andvanced insutry should be the reward for any person, in high sec, that plays within a corporation that can be wardecced. It should be the reward for high sec players taking on added risk and effort.

I believe this will solve many of the "problems" people have with some mechanics in high sec, as well as lead to a more dynamic, player driven, and interesting EVE.



People can read my "high sec sov" ideas in one of the other threads.
I'm not really interested in more conversations about "the problems", high sec vs null sec, PvP or no PvP, or any other point of contentiion that is found in the other threads about high sec and industry.



TL;DR right here.
I'm saying in this thread,

CCP needs to make the focus in high sec all about the high sec player run industrial corporation.

Null sec is all about sov.
Low sec is all about faction warfare, and piracy.
High sec should be all about industry, and the player run corporations that attempt to control it.

I believe that should be the "theme" in high sec, as well as the "theme" for EVE in 2013.


I would hope that this is something that the community can get behind, as it would have an impact on just about every area of EVE, as well as involve most playstyles; not just miners and builders.

That's a compelling arguement you got there.

It's nice to know you think that high sec player run corps should be have no impact in high sec.

I like how you post the exact same sentence in mulitple threads.
I'm assuming it's the only sentence you know how to write.

New players do NOT make the economy.

A new player does not produce T2 goods.

A new player is not doing invention. Even CCP lists this as an "advanced" activity.

New players do not need the NPC corp to allow them to be the best manufacturers in EVE.

NPC corps function should only be to ease new player into the game, and for people who need a place to go between corporations.

The NPC corps should never be the final destination of play, even CCP feels this way.
The lack of anything meaningful to control in high sec is why so many people do not leave the NPC corps. As well as the ability to produce T2 products as effectively as everyone else, leads to an abuse of the NPC corps.

People like me should not have NPC corp alts to do manufacturing in high sec because it's more profitable for me to that and ship to null in a lot of cases, then it is for me to build and sell in null. I use the NPC corps like everyone else, I'm no better.

I, like everyone else, understand that the most effective way to manufacture is to do so in an NPC station in high sec, from one of the NPC corps.

CCP has even said they were considering something along the lines of pushing the bulk of T2 production to .7 systems and lower. This has everytihng to do with limitting the amount of T2 production that can be done in NPC stations, and encouraging people to join player run corps.


HIgh sec is already heavily focused on industry, it's were the very vast majority of it happens. I just want the focus to be shifted from NPC corp industry to player run corporation industry.

As an industrialist, joining a player run corporation is unnecessary, and can actually be the worst thing to do. Most industrialist never have to do anything with a PoS.

They're also looking at high sec wars, and want to find ways to make them have meaning. Without some form of control in high sec, something that can be won or lost that is worth fighting for, high sec wardecs will always be meaningless and high sec corporation won't grow.

Again, corporations can have several thousand members. Large corporation being able to control things is not an unintended side effect of poor game design, it's entirely intended.

Null sec shouldn't be the only place that large corporations are formed, and high sec shouldn't be the only area of EVE that player run corporations aren't the focus.


Most people can name a notable null sec corporation, even a low sec one. I think most people would be hard pressed to point out a high sec corporation that is impacting EVE. I believe this is the root of the problem, and of many other problems that effect every area of EVE.


I want to make this clear.
I do not want them to "squeeze out" the NPC corp guy. I just think that the industrialist in a player run corp should have an advantage that is worth holding onto, that makes them the best industrialist in EVE. I support the idea of high sec being the best place for industry, I do not suppor NPC corps getting that luxury though.

I'd rather the NPC corp guy be bulding and refining in a high sec player run station, where the player run corp can set the tax and refine rates for people both in and out of their corp. This way the player run corp member or alliance member actually get the advantage, and has something to worth holding onto.


PS: EVE-Uni is the only high sec corporation that does "something" of note in high sec, but it's mroe to do with the nature of the corporation than any game mechanics. Being a new player training corp and all.

I don't advocate anything like that.

You should be able to stay in the NPC corporations if you don't want to deal with wardecs. CCP has a problem with the state of high sec warfare because it's viewed as a mostly pointless tool, and is seen as a "greif tactic". They want to improve it.

The mechanics are fine. It's an issue of not having any "power" in high sec, the player run corps need some form of empowerment. It's why the wardec system is working in null, and high sec is the only place meaningles wardecs are happening.

High sec isn't intended as a wardec free place. The idea is that PvP in high sec is supposed to be primarilly based on people wardecing each other. Currently you just wardec for pvp targets; it shouldn't be that way.

Playing the NPC corpse is fine.
What I'd like woudln't actually take THE ABILITY to do anything away from anyone. It would just make people in player run corps more efficient.

CCP indicated they were considering something that could very well result in some people NOT being able to do something. I'm against that. CCP's idea is that if you don't have a production slot in .7-.5 available, and you're in an NPC corp, you won't be able to do T2 manufacturing. Unless you're in a player corporations.

I'd rather that NPC corp guy go to a player run station and build, paying the player run corporation for the privilege.

Giving corporations the ability to drop a system upgrade that would make the belts span higher concentration ores.

Requiring player run stations to process the higher concentration ores.

The NPC corp guy can still do the same mining, refining, and building, but the members of that corp or it's allies will do it better.

Whch is only fair. You should be rewarded in high sec for playing in a player run corporation, and high sec wars need meaning before the wardec mechanics will work in high sec.

Wrong on a few points. once you leave a player corp, or are kicked, you land in an npc corp again. so no loss there. Skills are never tossed in the bin unless your character is killed without an appropriate clone, and then only one skill level.

Eve rewards risk, so by risking yourself in a corp where you may develop tighter bonds, you get the chance to do more. if you decide the risk is too much, you may leave the corp, and you will be in an NPC corp once again. Very little risk. You can leave the corp at any time. I would advise trying it out. there really is no risk to you.
What you are currently doing is never leaving the tutorial part of a game, and it is always after the tutorial that the real game begins. Try it. it takes a leap of faith, but there is the safety net under you.

I think you will either end up in CAS again, if you choose to leave the corp you join. If you do not, you will be in The Scope or Aliastra, which are NPC corps, they both have the same tax rate (11%) and much of the same sort of side benefits.

I'll link you to a group of people you'll probably enjoy alot. Please search for them in forums to see what their people are like. As far as I have seen, they are very welcomming, and give their members alot of benefits, as well as haveing lots of events. They have classes to teach you what you would like first hand, and have mentors. I was not an eve uni person, I went to nullsec and never looked back, but they would have been good to join if i had not done so.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=195937&find=unread

Reasons why Highsec needs an industrial buff, its easier to keep as much of this linked and together.

Industry is highsec much like an established civilized culture, Lowsec are conflict and slums. Nullsec is supposed to be the frontier, providing raw materials, and a few sparkley gems, and experimental political systems. A place to escape to from the "civilization" of highsec. Wormholes a bit of the same, just smaller.

Highsec is not really civilized with the wardec system. Its more along the lines of armed mobs(griefers) and and fortified self sustaining communities(NPC corps) aloof from the plight of the peons (player corps). Concord are kind of like overworked, corrupt cops, just keeping the worst of the mobs in line, but accepting bribes to let purposless violence happen to the peons, by turning a blind eye.

Yes.

I'm not saying CCP should do anything that PREVENTS you from staying in the NPC corp, or goinng back to them. I"m saying that when you leave a PLAYER CORP, you should actually be giving something up.

For me, that should be the ability to be a BETTER industrialist. Joining a player run corp should provide you a benefit. The tax increase didn't work, and CCP raised it specificially for the reason I'm saying. To make it BETTER to be in the player run corp.

They can't just keep increasing the tax rate though, THAT does effect new players.


Let me say this again.
Soundwave said they were thinking about moving the bulk of T2 production to .7 and lower systems.
The significance of that being that 1) you can't anchor a PoS in a system greater than .7, and 2) it would limit the available slots for manufacturing T2 goods.

The idea is, if there aren't enough slots for T2 production in NPC stations, it'll give low and null a leg up in T2 production, and it will encourage people to join player run corps so that they can use PoS's to do T2 production.

My problem wit this is,
Not everyone wants to play in low or null
Not everyone wants to play in a player run corp.
This would open up the potential that SOME PEOPLE WON'T be able to build things. (if there are no slots available, and you're not in a corp with a PoS, you won't be able to do T2 production.

I do NOT want that to happen.
I want you to be able to do everything you're doing WITHOUT having to join a player run corp.


I'm saying, don't do that.

1) make PoS the "everyman" type structure. Increase the number that can be anchored, make them anchorable to a planet, or do the modular set up they talked about.

2) Instead of the PoS as a corp tool, give high sec corporations the ability to RUN A STATION. In null you don't just have PoS's, corporations have entire stations they can run and upgrade.

Instead of the NPC runing that station in a high sec system, there would be one that is run by a player corporations. In that station you would do T2 prucuction, and refine higher concentration ores. The corporation can set a "member/ ally" production and refine reates, as well as non member rates.

Give the player run high sec corp the ability to upgrade a system to have higher concentration belts, just like null corps upgrade systems to have better mining belts. High sec players should be able to do the same in high sec. A system that isn't upgraded by a player run corp would just have the standard ores, the standard ores would be processed in NPC stations.

If a corp upgrades the system, it wouldn't prevent anyone from mining it.
Player corp upgrades.;
NPC corp member mines, then they take the ore to a player run station and they reprocess, the corp can set a refine tax that will allow them to keep a small percentage of the minerals.


If you're industrial corp has a station in a system, and a unit that upgrades the belt, and I have a player run corp who's been working in that system through your station I could conceivably one day decide that I don't want to pay your rates and would rather control this stuff myself.

I grow my corp, declare war.

Now you, who are in effective control of industry in that system have something fight to hold on to, and I have something to fight to take control of. We both have a reason to grow, and we both have a reason for war.

CCP is asking, "how do we make high sec wardecs meaningful". Everyone has an opinion on how CCP should "change" wardecs in high sec.

I'm telling you guys, for a fact, that it will never happen if there is no control in high sec. If player run corps do not have some form of empowerment, if they have no form of control, if they nothing to gain and nothing to lose, there will never be "meaningful" wardecs in high sec, and no amount of changing the wardec mechanics will fix that.

Wardecs work in every other area of EVE, BUT high sec. High sec has nothing meaningful to fight for.

I'm saying, I want CCP to give you guys more tools, more content, and more control over the area you play.
If they do that, wardecs will mean something.

I"m an industrialist. For 7 years, this is all I've ever done in EVE. Almsot all of that time was in high sec. Untill I joined goons I was an NPC industrialist. There was simply NO REASON for me to join a high sec player run corp. They did not offer me anything that I didn't already have, they could not provide me any kind of an enviroment that would benefit me as an industialist.

I spent years looking for a high sec corp, trying to find a REASON to join one. The reason was simply not there. Most high sec corps do not have a PoS to work out of. There was simply nothing that a high sec corp could offer me, if they didn't own a PoS. You gain nothing joining a high sec player run corp as an industrialist. The tax rate is trivial enough to be ignored, and it is.

This is pretty much the essence of what CCP is thinking when they say things like "moving T2 production to .7 and lower."

While I wouldn't complain if they did these things, I don't want them to.

I'd very much rather see the player run corp in high sec get buffed to be better than the NPC corp by requiring the NPC corp guy to do things in a statin run by player run corps. This way the PLAYERS can tax the guys who want the safest play enviroment in EVE and the members of those corps would gain an advantage and have something of value to want to hold onto.


There's a reason damn near every MMO now does things like guild perks and achievements. Developers of MMO's want you to play in groups run by other players, you're more likely to stick around longer when you do.

High sec has no incentive to play in a player run corporation, and when you do, there's no incentive to stay in that corp or to fight for them.

In the meantime we've got this engtire area of EVE that is entirely player driven, where corporations grow the way CCP intends, and were the wardec mechanics WORK. For no other reason than there's something to fight for.

No one in null is droping or disbanding corp when they get wardecced; we have something tangible to lose.
High sec needs the same thing, period.

I'll let you take that up with him.

As for him not being an industrial corp. Your right, he's a player, he's not a corp. But that isn't my point, my point is he has taken control of a location through clever thinking and use of the tools at his disposal to exert his control over a given industry and resource. Other industrialists I know use mercs and PvP corps to push rivals out of entire systems, affording them almost exlusive access to its resources.

So, if you want to conrol something, go do it. Don't ask for it to be handed to you on a plate.


So, access to research towers is nothing then... whatever you say. Personally, I thought they were integral to industry myself, but what do I know. If T2 invention and almost all research, which is done through player corps, how is that not the driving force of indusrty?

Player generated content, including corps, is the most fundamental part of EvE. If it was up to me, I would remove most of the NPC stations and allow them to be replaced with player owned stations, built through the modular POS system that there are already many thread about. I would allow them to be built and destroyed through several means and I would see them have all the attributes and capabilities afforded to the current NPC stations, (aside from being indestructable,) provided their astronomical fuel bills are met. Sales tax would be split between the corp owning the station and the empire who owned the space it is based in. This would also apply in SOV areas.
That would be YOUR station, because NPC stations will only ever belong to NPC's.

My issue is NPC corps in general. They are not meant to be the final destination of a player, they are where you begin your EvE career before moving on and a shelter for those ill equiped or too scared to handle PvP. If you want the security afforded by these institutions, your lose out on some benefits to independant corps. Thats the choice you make.

Giving NPC corp members more benfits for using that corps stations over other corps, you just reinforce their unwilling ness to go out and do something for themselves. What you are asking for is to take freedom from the player and reward a 'sheep' mentality, forcing industrialists into NPC corps where they cannot advance or diversify themselves. They would be locked into static locations in highsec and would never really grow as players. Considering you are a member of Goon Swarm, the self styled emergent gameplay anarchists, I am suprised that you would seek to narrow the minds of so many and that you would seek to take so much from players and deliver it into the hands of NPC's.

(PS: I highlighted your spelling mistakes for you and corrected them. I was under the impression you goons took pride in your vocabulary. Bad form old chap.)