Wormholes

I agree with this other than the implication thinking was involved.

With all due respect, yes. Plan. Wormholes are hard mode.

I would have thought that was Combat 101 to an AHARM guy.

LOL i read this and shuddered since historically this has not been the case with Two Step at all. Since he has already brought this up with CCP as it being an issue but yet has never blogged about this or yet asked for a wider view from the WH community than those in his circle that he has said "has had concerns" then i am doubftull this will be any different then the last threadnaught where he disagreed and wanted to nerf all of low end WH space.

But personally i await being surprised.

So let me get this straight...you want all dreads to be the same...yes the moros has uber tracking and higher deeps, but that's blasters.....revs can tank better infact moros tank the worse....if you want an even fight, fight in the static...its assumed that someone home should be well defended with the dread better designed to hit small ships.

Nerfing the moros just like they will nerf t3's is just lame.


I think torps and cruise should hit battleships much easier but that's my opintion.

I know alot have said about just bringing ecm but you have to remember alot of people already bring remote eccm to help stop there logi getting jammed its very easy to switch that to your lokis, tengus jam strengh isnt great and with new skills its now harder still. Falcons are def a option but they are squishy as hell and would have to stay well out the way, probably 70km off the fight and at that range dreads will hit them without to much of a issue. People also seem to be under the impression its only lokis who have webs but often you will have webs and painters on other support (not as effective i agree) its hard to totally mitigate an entire fleet of webs

yep neuts is a idea although with people running guards its fairly easy to counter (or just having 1 energy guardain will keep loads of lokis capped up) most still run with archons with will also give cap. Also for the love of god people suggesting just bring lots of bhaals as a counter to blapping dreads GTFO. your looking at 10 odd bhaals to instant cap a dread and thats if its in range if its not you can kiss yoru arse good by to them. neut legions is more sensible but as hathrul (i think) has said you need 8 or 10 of them to cap out dreads in a short amount of time. yes i say short amount of time cos longer goes the more chance they have of getting lucky hits and instant popping stuff.

i've been on both sides i've instant popped tengus at 70km in my rev and i've also had guardains get instant popped by hostiles (once dreads are spread out its very hard to transveral up against them all)

i personally dont think its as much a dread blapping issue as it is moros is totally op, when the drones got removed from them moros just got insane this was made even worse by the fact t2 seige came out about the same time giving what was already a nice dps increase a further 20% dps increase on top and a 3rd lock spot (which with the lock time of dreads this really really helps in both pvp and pve) the fact the moros also has amazing tracking for a dread and that most wh fights are brawlling at 0 plays to the moros strengh with close range blasters as apposed to sniping fights at 70km.

also normally when the big fights happen it gets to the point were one side realises the dreads are winning and disengage before they take more losses.

exhale jumped us in a site and it was going ok for them up until we brought in extra webbers at range and popped drugs on the dreads at that point they took a few more losses and sensibly disengaged. they also had a great fight with norcorp on a wh and again stuff was going ok till a couple of there ecm tengus got jammed or killed then they couldnt stop all the webs and painters and noho's dreads started blapping. this fight more than any highlights that ecm while it can mitigate dreads dps isnt 100% effective you miss a couple jams get jammed yourself or die and its game over.

again i think just a slight tweak to moros tracking and most stuff should be sorted

I don't understand these ECM comments... I don't know how else to put it:

ECM is not a reliable counter. It's chance-based. It's extremely easy to bypass.


It's not as if you can neutralize the support instantly. And in the time it takes to do so, you'll be blapped.

If your jumping farmers in a site with just 1 or 2 lokis for web support to kill sleepers then yeah i totally agree its easy to jam or nuet the lokis out and then there dreads are a none issue.

I attually went and found the kill mail for the noho exhale fight

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=15014651

keep in mind this is noho home system so they have the blappy dreads and while i dont know there fits for stuff if we assume the fleet is built around helping blappy dreads. with a prop mod and point then webs and painters in spare mids.

we have:-

5 lokis probably running 2 webs each
6 legions so assume 6 webs 6 painters
6 prots so assume 3 webs 3 painters
7 dreads which could have had 1 painter (shinobi's didnt but i'm going worst case and i know alot of people do fit painters to dreads) so 6 painters

in total we have 24 ships 19 webs 15 painters (6 of which cannot be jammed) even if you manage to jam all teh lokis you still have 9 webs and 15 painters. (noho had a few extra ships i havent included so potentially i could have been more)

in big fleet fights its much harder to jam/neut/damp everything some of that stuff will be able to web and paint and when its does its blappy time

I know that most the subs were lost to other sub caps but its more to use there fleet size to show just how many webs painters there could be and how its not just a case of jam lokis.

The fight between us and exhale

http://dontshootx.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13707

potential web painter count

7 lokis 14 webs
2 legions 2 webs 2 painters
4 rapiers 12 webs 12 painters
6 dreads (ok garrisoons didnt have a painter on) 5 painters

In this case its in a sleeper site so could be alot of random sleeper webs on top of this, while its random its still something to keep in mind.

total potential 19 ships 28 webs 19 painters.

The way more interesting point is in nearly all the t3 lost the moros is the one doing the blapping even though there is 4 times as many revs on field, assuming all are equal skilled, this to me highlights the biggest issue, even with stuff webbed painted revs cant hit while moros can. also in this fight most teh t3 did get whelped by dreads it was only that exhale disenaged that there wasnt more blapped.

yeah i will say these might be extreme cases and chances are not all t3 were fitted for webs paints, but keep in mind in the aharm exhale fight that only makes it worse if less had webs and paints.

I hope this helps

TLDR Moros tracking is godly in wh space.

it can be but alot of the fights will take place on the wh meaning they are still probably in range to web and paint and if the arazu is 60 to 80 km off the fight (which it needs to be to stay out the brawl) then its easy to hit with dreads (just like falcons)

although plus 1 from me for thinking none t3

It shouldn't be easy to invade and take control of someones home system. It takes commitment and planning. Dreads should be able to hit anything they already can imo....if there is a t3 that is webbed/painted to 10m/s the dread should knock the **** out of it. That is the point of webs/paints. Just because you dont have enough in numbers or ecm or neuts to deal with it is no ones problem but your own

Why are we trying to make it easier to go into peoples systems and throw our weight around? It shouldnt be easy...that is the point of the defense systems we have in place.

It makes people question..how bad they really want it...this is lazy to make it easier.

You either seed and roll and get balls deep in her...or you GTFO.

EDIT: About the moros issue...if your QQing b/c of the moros tracking/dps...then get ur ass in a moros it also has the worst tank of all the dreads..so blapp your lil' hearts out.

Umm... say hello to my shield moros. That's without links/boosters/overheat. With those things it gets closer to 40k dps tank. Of course no one's arguing that tank should be nerfed. Tank has nothing to do with it...

Just lower moros tracking and dps a bit, put it closer to rev levels.

Also, no one's arguing that home invasion should be easier.