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Understanding Reward

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Whitehound
#41 - 2013-01-20 08:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Xenuria wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Xenuria, do not start with asking for volunteers, but offer rewards. This would be an important step if you want to be taken serious in your attempt to improve Risk vs. Reward. You cannot expect to be rewarded with results when you don't risk losing some ISKs in the process. It makes you unbelievable.


I cannot offer any kind of incentive for participation because that would invalidate any data I collected from said participation.

Then you haven't got the slightest idea on Risk vs. Reward and are a terrible choice to vote for.

Do you seriously expect players to risk their spaceships to collect data for you, with some losing ISKs in the process, and only so you can become a CSM member?

I really cannot believe that this is your intention and your comprehension of Risk vs. Reward. You simply refuse to take any risk, but expect to be rewarded!

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-01-20 12:34:30 UTC
Several posts have been removed from this thread for breaches of CCP forum posting rules regarding personal attacks. I will be very clear here, such attacks, to whoever and for whatever reason, are unacceptable. Anyone found breaking these rules can be issued with warnings and/or a forum ban of indeterminate length.


Forum Rules wrote:


6. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing “in character” disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.


11. Immediate banning from the forum can result from any of the following:

The posting of pornography; discriminatory remarks which are sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive; excessive obscene or vulgar language; posts which discuss or illustrate illegal activity; providing links to sites that contain any of the aforementioned.



[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Xenuria
#43 - 2013-01-20 13:17:01 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Xenuria, do not start with asking for volunteers, but offer rewards. This would be an important step if you want to be taken serious in your attempt to improve Risk vs. Reward. You cannot expect to be rewarded with results when you don't risk losing some ISKs in the process. It makes you unbelievable.


I cannot offer any kind of incentive for participation because that would invalidate any data I collected from said participation.

Then you haven't got the slightest idea on Risk vs. Reward and are a terrible choice to vote for.

Do you seriously expect players to risk their spaceships to collect data for you, with some losing ISKs in the process, and only so you can become a CSM member?

I really cannot believe that this is your intention and your comprehension of Risk vs. Reward. You simply refuse to take any risk, but expect to be rewarded!



You need to realize that if I pay people to participate then anybody can make the case that the data is biased or completely tainted because I paid people. It's not like I am asking people to do something they don't already do.

CSM 12 Candidate
Whitehound
#44 - 2013-01-20 14:29:11 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
You need to realize that if I pay people to participate then anybody can make the case that the data is biased or completely tainted because I paid people. It's not like I am asking people to do something they don't already do.

People will attack your study from any side. If you pay those who help you or if you don't. Or what proof do you have that people don't crap up your study for lols, because you didn't pay them?

I then already gave you a reason for why you should do it, because if you don't then your unwillingness to reward those who take risks for helping you is going to make you look really bad.

In order to lose credibility do you first need to gain some and you don't have any. So be smart. Pay players to help you get as many results as possible. The more the better. Let the results speak for themselves.

Of course, the reward for helping you needs be independent from the result. You think you can manage this?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#45 - 2013-01-20 14:53:53 UTC
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Chribba wrote:
So basically you're asking for information from others to present in your own campaign... how can you stand behind numbers you did not collect and verify yourself?

/c



Dude's whole campain is dead in one post...man that was perfect timing and funny as ****.


Xenuria: Hi, I would like attention and someone to talk to. Hopefully I'll gain enough friends to get a free trip to Iceland to creep out everyone in the meetings.

Chribba: Go get your shine box...


Any player can only run so many missions in a day. Are you against the idea of collecting data to get a broader perspective?

No data, IRL or in game is guaranteed to be accurate. That is why you collect lots, and exclude the boundary cases. There are a number of very well documented statistical methods for doing this.

So what is (EDIT) your real problem?



You are very right thank you for correcting my behavior. I will now cast my vote for you and an alt so you receive two tickets. That way you'll be able to take a kid with ya and won't have to creep around looking for the local ones.










Can we get a funny hat video now? I hear they are really popular with the twelve year olds.
Ildryn
IDLE INTENTIONS
#46 - 2013-01-20 15:14:57 UTC
Trolling by calling Chribba a troll.

Would vote for Anhkelkhdef- whatever her name was before i vote for you Xenuria.

Your past has already destroyed your chances of being a CSM rep.

This entire thread is just your troll in all likelihood.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#47 - 2013-01-20 17:48:04 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
You need to realize that if I pay people to participate then anybody can make the case that the data is biased or completely tainted because I paid people. It's not like I am asking people to do something they don't already do.



Except that paid participation in studies is pretty common and doesn't affect the validity of the results if the study is structured properly. You're just cheap.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Xenuria
#48 - 2013-01-20 18:01:47 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
You need to realize that if I pay people to participate then anybody can make the case that the data is biased or completely tainted because I paid people. It's not like I am asking people to do something they don't already do.



Except that paid participation in studies is pretty common and doesn't affect the validity of the results if the study is structured properly. You're just cheap.



The "structure" of this study is anything but standard. You make a valid point that some studies involve payment for participation, however those studies often have levels of deception to keep the participants oblivious of the true purpose behind the study. I am not using any deception in my study and that in and of itself is a problem but an unavoidable one.

I am really going to continue to do my best doing what I think is right.

Despite what you and your ilk may think of me I am still uniquely equipped to understand the human element of eve better than most people. Since people won't trust me then will have to trust my numbers.

CSM 12 Candidate
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#49 - 2013-01-20 18:02:54 UTC
I think my favorite thing is how vague everyone is about why they don't like Xenuria. As if they don't have a valid reason and are just being petty and childish.

Reminds me of Jr High. Roll

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#50 - 2013-01-20 18:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Xenuria wrote:
The "structure" of this study is anything but standard. You make a valid point that some studies involve payment for participation, however those studies often have levels of deception to keep the participants oblivious of the true purpose behind the study. I am not using any deception in my study and that in and of itself is a problem but an unavoidable one.


Quite simply wrong. You can have perfectly valid non-blinded studies (well, surveys, since that's what you're doing) with paid participants.

Quote:
I am really going to continue to do my best doing what I think is right.

Despite what you and your ilk may think of me I am still uniquely equipped to understand the human element of eve better than most people. Since people won't trust me then will have to trust my numbers.


Sure you are.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Keno Skir
#51 - 2013-01-20 18:14:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Chribba wasn't trolling you, he was suggesting you dont have much of a basic idea from which to base your further research.

The childish way you have been replying to posts you don't like makes me want to ignore you as well.

You'll fit in perfectly at the CSM...

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Singular Snowflake
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-01-20 18:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Singular Snowflake
Xenuria wrote:
-Platform listed in priority order-

LGBT issues
All Genders can wear all clothing
All Genders can have all hairstyles
All Genders can have whatever sex characteristics they want
All Genders can have all makeup styles and colors

I think your previous platform was a lot better. I hope you have not given up on getting **** for male avatars.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#53 - 2013-01-20 18:17:58 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
The childish way you have been replying to posts you don't like makes me want to ignore you as well.


Xenuria has remained calm and rational throughout all this. Anyone can see that.

You guys, on the other hand, just keep sinking lower.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Xenuria
#54 - 2013-01-20 18:36:40 UTC
Singular Snowflake wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
-Platform listed in priority order-

LGBT issues
All Genders can wear all clothing
All Genders can have all hairstyles
All Genders can have whatever sex characteristics they want
All Genders can have all makeup styles and colors

I think your previous platform was a lot better. I hope you have not given up on getting **** for male avatars.


I really can't go into to much detail on my platform in this thread because this thread is specifically for the research part 1. However I will say that I have alot of things I want to advocate for and what you listed is not going to be forgotten.

My platform for CSM 8 in its present form is still maturing and developing. In one vague phrase "the human element". I will make a specific thread for discussing this in detail when the time is right. For now I NEED to do research and gather some information before I start prioritizing things.

CSM 12 Candidate
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#55 - 2013-01-20 18:40:00 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Chribba wasn't trolling you, he was suggesting you dont have much of a basic idea from which to base your further research.

The childish way you have been replying to posts you don't like makes me want to ignore you as well.

You'll fit in perfectly at the CSM...

Leading EVE to the future.

EVE is, after all, dying.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-01-20 19:51:35 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
The childish way you have been replying to posts you don't like makes me want to ignore you as well.


Xenuria has remained calm and rational throughout all this. Anyone can see that.

You guys, on the other hand, just keep sinking lower.

I agree.

I think the OP was written good. Explained position and gave reason for needing help to compile information. There was no reason for the spiteful verbal attacks. And oh yeah,

Chribba is not God.

GD sub forum is still full of trolls.

ISD moderator missed a lot of Off-Topic troll remarks.

Thread would be better suited in Missions and Complexes sub forum.


To the OP,

As for PvE Risk v Reward on agent missions - I encountered an excellent example of when risk vastly outweighs the reward - seems CCP doesn't know or doesn't care that most mission runners will not accept or engage in this.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#57 - 2013-01-20 20:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyktor Abyss
You lost my vote when you first arrived on the forums *lol* troll posting (though only you really found it funny).

When you showed up in Gallente militia comms (no idea why) and said that your troll posting was a 'forum persona' you also lost my respect.

Good luck with the campaign though.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2013-01-20 20:34:38 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Xenuria has remained calm and rational throughout all this. Anyone can see that.
Xenuria lost any claim to rationality when he kept trying to prove that 20k is more than 50k, and since then, he has offered precious little to disprove that first appearance.
Xenuria
#59 - 2013-01-20 20:47:10 UTC
I think one of the things that is really going to stand out is the average discrepancy in LP and isk payout between lvl 3s 4s and 5s. Once I have enough data I will start making some graphs to illustrate the problems with RvR as it stands currently.

CSM 12 Candidate
Whitehound
#60 - 2013-01-20 20:48:55 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
I think one of the things that is really going to stand out is the average discrepancy in LP and isk payout between lvl 3s 4s and 5s. Once I have enough data I will start making some graphs to illustrate the problems with RvR as it stands currently.

Are you currently working on your plan?

Will you post it when it is done so we can all take a look at it and make comments and give criticism and suggestions?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.