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Is Proteus viable for Hisec exploration?

Author
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#21 - 2013-01-18 10:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Princess Saskia wrote:
With regards to using the drone subsystem on the proteus. Yes most pve involves using sentries. but using sentries on a proteus that needs to be close to its targets to apply damage you'd be full on special ****** to use sentries. You'd have to keep collecting them each time. Way to convinence yourself.

You need to be close if you use blasters. And for that reason I use rails. In this setup guns play secondary role anyway.

Also use of sentries is situational. I use them mostly for killing structures and popping overseers. For everything else Hobgoblins and Hammerheads do their job just fine.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#22 - 2013-01-19 14:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
^^^ this guy knows what he is talking about :)

The obv answer to the OP question is, all T3s are viable for high and low sec exploration.

As to the Proteus I would even go as far as saying that it's actually is as good as the Tengu. And I find it more efficient than the Loki (which I also fly extensively). It's obviously most effective against Guristas ands Serpentis, fittng just a repper and one specific nano (kin for Guristas, therm for Serpentis) will let you tank an entire 4/10 room without any problems. But it will do fine against other pirate factions too.


And this is why I consider the Proteus a match for the Tengu:


[Proteus, GSO Racer]
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corelum C-Type Energized Kinetic Membrane
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Enhancer II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Gistum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive

250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M
Salvager II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Garde II x4
Hornet II x5


Depending on your drone skills, this baby does up to 740 DPS at ~49km optimal, meaning it can compete even with substantially gank-heavy Tengus in the race for the can (and will win every time if the Tengu is not fitted/skilled for max or close to max DPS). In a Loki, I never stood a chance.

(and if you are an adventurous kind, the MWD will let you steal the loot with impunity even if the Tengu gets the kill Cool)

Like the poster above me said, use Gardes at a distance (structures, overseers, cruisers orbiting at 35km etc). Your light drones will shred everything else (including short range cruisers, not that Guristas have those) just set them loose with aggresive on, focused fire off, making sure you get the aggro 1st of course.

For regular "for fun" exploration just swap one or both Navy Omnis for codebreaker/analyzer. (Edit: and you might also want to swap the MWD for an AB, as MWDs don't work in 3/10s)
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#23 - 2013-01-19 16:38:23 UTC
Very nice setup is this of yours, Funky. I use quite similar one though with some crucial differences.

About comparing to Tengu I don't have much data. I've been in contest only once and incidentally I've won ;), though it may have been only sheer luck.

I think that Omnis are terrible things to waste so I'd remove only one. As hisec is concerned Analyzers are not necessary due to low value of Magneto sites. And in Serpentis space MWD works in 3/10 so if there's one which forbids use then maybe it's an omission from CCP's side and friendly petition should be in order.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#24 - 2013-01-19 17:50:43 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:

About comparing to Tengu I don't have much data. I've been in contest only once and incidentally I've won ;), though it may have been only sheer luck.


In Gurista space these races actually happen quite often. I'd say as many as 1 in 5 of 4/10s I find in the peak hours are contested, occasionally by more than 2 people ;)

I just got tired of losing them to them newbs in Tengus, and this setup is my pretty specialized response ;). Tengus actually start off with a pretty big advantage over all the other T3s which is especially telling in GSOs - not only do they deal excellent ranged damage with their bonused Scourges, but they additionally compound it by burning towards the overseer structure. No close range boat can compete with that (not even a 1700m/s MWD Loki), so going sniper/sentry seemed the only answer.


Quote:

I think that Omnis are terrible things to waste so I'd remove only one. As hisec is concerned Analyzers are not necessary due to low value of Magneto sites. And in Serpentis space MWD works in 3/10 so if there's one which forbids use then maybe it's an omission from CCP's side and friendly petition should be in order.


I basically agree about the omnis ;). I am 100% sure MWD doesn't work in Angel 3/10, not sure about the others, I just assummed it's the same everywhere (and I skip 3/10s in Gursitas space nowadyas, I find them rather tedious and the only really good drop is pretty rare).



dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-01-20 06:48:58 UTC
Funky Koval wrote:
No close range boat can compete with that (not even a 1700m/s MWD Loki), so going sniper/sentry seemed the only answer.


If you want to do exploration in a proteus in high populated hi-sec systems, it's not a bad idea to get some snake implants or Overdrive Injector System II.

Fitting 4 drone damage upgrades is not worth it compared to using overdrive injector, which brings a mwd proteus to 1800 km/s and 2567 km/s overloaded, also using 1 T2 rigs you can get to 1937 km/s and 2762 overloaded. With a full set of snakes, overdrive injector and T2 rig, the mwd proteus is at 2416 km/s and 3445 km/s overloaded.

Speed is close to being as important as dps, and much more important then tank, after all a T1 cruiser can tank full room aggro in a 4/10

Funky Koval wrote:
I am 100% sure MWD doesn't work in Angel 3/10, not sure about the others, I just assummed it's the same everywhere (and I skip 3/10s in Gursitas space nowadyas, I find them rather tedious and the only really good drop is pretty rare).


Never hurts to have a afterburner in the cargohold, there is a good chance you have a station in the same system making it easy to swap out the mwd.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#26 - 2013-01-20 10:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
dexington wrote:
Fitting 4 drone damage upgrades is not worth it compared to using overdrive injector, which brings a mwd proteus to 1800 km/s and 2567 km/s overloaded, also using 1 T2 rigs you can get to 1937 km/s and 2762 overloaded. With a full set of snakes, overdrive injector and T2 rig, the mwd proteus is at 2416 km/s and 3445 km/s overloaded.

Speed is close to being as important as dps, and much more important then tank, after all a T1 cruiser can tank full room aggro in a 4/10



For a blasterboat, yes. But then, even doing 3500 m/s it will take you 15s+ to bring your blasters in effective range (you need a few sec to accelerate after all). By that time a good Tengu pilot will have fired 8-10k worth of missile damage, putting you way behind (and out of the contest, really).

Ranged dps is by far the most important factor in this case IMO.

In my mind the MWD is there mostly to safeguard against the other guy stealing the loot (not that it has happened to me yet, but yeah, that possibility exists and it being EVE is bound to happen at some point I guessBlink)

But like I said, this fit is designed with that one particular scenario in mind. In general, there's obviously nothing wrong with exploring in a blasterboat Proteus (nor with switching a damage mod for an overdrive ;).
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#27 - 2013-01-20 12:15:05 UTC
Confirming sentry Ishtar and Proteus will win a GSO against a Tengu every time

Both can also be fitted with neuts, point and explosive drones if you feel like harvesting the Tengus as well :)

.

azumi las
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-01-20 20:34:18 UTC
Funky Koval wrote:
dexington wrote:
Fitting 4 drone damage upgrades is not worth it compared to using overdrive injector, which brings a mwd proteus to 1800 km/s and 2567 km/s overloaded, also using 1 T2 rigs you can get to 1937 km/s and 2762 overloaded. With a full set of snakes, overdrive injector and T2 rig, the mwd proteus is at 2416 km/s and 3445 km/s overloaded.

Speed is close to being as important as dps, and much more important then tank, after all a T1 cruiser can tank full room aggro in a 4/10



For a blasterboat, yes. But then, even doing 3500 m/s it will take you 15s+ to bring your blasters in effective range (you need a few sec to accelerate after all). By that time a good Tengu pilot will have fired 8-10k worth of missile damage, putting you way behind (and out of the contest, really).

Ranged dps is by far the most important factor in this case IMO.

In my mind the MWD is there mostly to safeguard against the other guy stealing the loot (not that it has happened to me yet, but yeah, that possibility exists and it being EVE is bound to happen at some point I guessBlink)

But like I said, this fit is designed with that one particular scenario in mind. In general, there's obviously nothing wrong with exploring in a blasterboat Proteus (nor with switching a damage mod for an overdrive ;).



You can't explore in guristas space on cookie cutter T3 fits, take it from someone that is on the other side of the fence and steal loot from people all the time.
The most important thing is to be faster than the other dude, that's it. It doesn't need to be overkill to the point of using snakes and that kind of ****, you just need to be faster, period.
When the can is contested, who does the most damage doesn't matter, what matter is who gets to the can faster.
The only thing high dps does for an explorer is finish an uncontested site faster, that's it, nothing else.

I explore on a 160 dps ship and the only time I lost a contested can was when I derped and tried to loot the can 3 times before realizing I had safeties on.
Sure it takes me 10 minutes to finish a 4/10 on my own, but for me it is more than worth it to have almost guaranteed chance of having the loot in the end should someone come in and try to get it(and they will).

The only scenario(on a 4/10) where a T3 can compete with any faster ship for the loot is if it gets in range of the can before going all out on the telescope trying to get the loot rights like all the morons do.
Even then a lot of things can happen, I've seen people do that on their 700dps tengus just to warp out before destroying the telescope because they can't handle the dps while sitting still so yeah.
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
#29 - 2013-01-20 22:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Koval
I get what you are saying, but believe me, for every guy like you there are probably 20 people exploring in Tengus and 10 who do it in other T3s/HACs.

EDIT: actually you should know that already, cause they are the guys you steal from, right? /EDIT

So yeah, if we happen to bump into each other, you'll likely make it away with the loot, but in the meantime I will be happy to win 20 races against the other guys (who don't even think about stealing, nor do they usually even have a MWD fitted).

Like so many things in this game,. it's a percentages game and I'd rather focus on what's more important.

Having said that, I just might actually fit that overdrive, seems that I am comfortable enough winning them DPS races as is, anyway.

BTW, this Proteus fit needs the Omnis, but in Sansha space I have an armor tanked Loki that has 2 mid slots basically free, so I am just gonna fit a point/web and see if I can get any luck with that ;). Not that Sansha space is so hotly contested tho.
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