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Proposal for the Annihilation of Sansha's Nation.

Author
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-01-20 10:39:24 UTC
This is a preliminary proposal by the CFC to secure a contract to obliterate Sansha's Nation from the Cluster.

When Sansha's Nation originally emerged all five empires banded together to attack and destroy it. Obviously, they failed, seeing as how they are marauding around the cluster causing all sorts of havoc. However, when it comes to actually achieving anything, luckily, Nation has not done more than enrich capsuleers. Nation vessels are destroyed at such a rate, that I am convinced Kuvakei's goal is to bankrupt CONCORD.

Quite simply, every major power has failed in it's most basic duty to safeguard it's citizens. Each of the big four seem more interested in petty squabbles and grudges that are now generations old, rather than protecting their citizens. CONCORD has proven itself similarly unable to stop Nation. In any sort of power vacuum, a new group emerges. That group is us.

The CFC is the cluster's premiere warfighting organization. The pilots of our coalition understand campaigns and how to win them. The leadership has extensive experience in conquering regions. Our sky marshal and her team are unmatched anywhere else in New Eden. And I am counting the admiralty of the empire navies. The CFC would prosecute a total war against Nation, which would wipe the region of Stain literally off the map.

Our final goals would be simple. Using our immense super-capital and capital fleets we would not just bombard planets, but crack them in half. Nation stations would be similarly destroyed. All fleet anchorages, staging points, supply caches would be scanned down and eliminated. Finally, we would take advantage of our force projection abilities in the form of jump capable fleets and titan bridges to ensure secured systems were not re-inhabited by destroying stargates on our way out. Unlike the empire's efforts before, we would not be restrained. We would burn Stain to the ground before moving out to other regions infested by Nation.

Naturally, the best things in life are not free. If the cluster wishes to live in a world free of Nation, it's going to cost. The original bid for this war would be ten trillion in liquid ISK. Also, CONCORD and the empires will provide the CFC with five hundred capital ships, a mix of dreadnoughts and carriers. The exact mix to be determined later. In addition, one hundred supercarriers and one hundred titans will be provided. Again the exact mix of types to be determined later. All of these ships will be retained upon completion of the contract. Finally, CONCORD will provide BPOs of their anti-cloaking technology to each of the CFC alliances.
Losses of sub-capital ships will be covered at one hundred and fifty percent by Pend Insurance and they will reexamine payouts for tech II and tech III ships to align them in accordance with market prices.

All safeties of capsuleer vessels that CONCORD has hardwired into pod interfaces will be removed in regions that Nation infests. Stargates, stations, planets and moons, as well as other minor structures will be designated as proper targets.

While the CFC is on this campaign, CONCORD DED and SWAT vessels will defend all CFC structures (stations, towers, I-Hubs) with the same lethal force they use in high security space. They will disallow SBUs from being anchored in all CFC sovereign space. CONCORD will order traffic control to limit stargate access to CFC sovereign space to those entities designated by CFC diplomats.

It's time that something is done. The cluster cannot continue under the shadow of Nation for any longer. Decisive action is required and an inordinate amount of force is called for. No one else seems to be able to defeat Nation. We can. We will.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-01-20 10:45:49 UTC
Why do you make these demands, knowing they'll never be met?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-01-20 10:53:54 UTC
Oh, I expect that there will be negotiations before this gets close to finalized. I simply stated terms that I knew I could go to The Mittani with and have the invasion be approved. The terms are not chiseled in stone, rather written in digital form.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Graelyn
Aeternus Command Academy
#4 - 2013-01-20 10:59:28 UTC
If you could point to a spot on the map, and say 'blow this up', I'd be the first into the breach.

But you can't. The CFC would have similar problems.

Defeating Nation will one day be a task for the Warriors, but right now, any assembled might is useless. A sword is of no use against the mists.

For now, it is a task for the Great Thinkers of our Age.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#5 - 2013-01-20 10:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jinari Otsito
Nation seems content with focusing on Capsuleers, who in turn seems content with feasting on the ISK payout. It's not so much a threat as a cute little income source. Let me know if they focus on dirtsiders or anything, then I might be persuaded to give a [edit] single unit: Fecal Matter [/done edit].

Of course, I'd still have to find someone to hang with that aren't completely batfuck insane, like the OP there. I have never seen such a nutbag in my life. Kuvakei pales in comparison.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-01-20 11:09:32 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Oh, I expect that there will be negotiations before this gets close to finalized. I simply stated terms that I knew I could go to The Mittani with and have the invasion be approved. The terms are not chiseled in stone, rather written in digital form.


Yeah, but you know for a fact that CONCORD is never going to approve anything remotely close to the demands you've made, and in fact, some of the demands you're making seem to violate some core tenets of the CFC philosophy. Take, for instance, the demand for DED SWAT protecting CFC territory - you're basically asking CONCORD to keep your assets safe while you go and attack something else - that seems very counter to the core CFC tenet of "if you can't protect it, you don't deserve it." CONCORD has never protected capsuleer-controlled nullsec assets from other capsuleers before - why should it deign to do so now, even if you're providing a service for it?

Similarly, you want Pend Insurance to cover lost sub-capital assets at 150% cost and revalue T2 and T3 prices? Does "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" not apply anymore? And this demand about the empires just up and giving you capital and supercapital assets, and DED cloak-scrambling technology - what happened to the attitude of "no organisation should have advantages it can't make for itself?" Didn't you guys get all up in arms about rogue Jovian agents giving technology to Band of Borthers years ago, violating CONCORD legislation?

I'm sorry, as much as I want to see the Sansha gone from this world, I can't help but feel like this press release is just meaningless posturing, which is something I thought you always strongly opposed. It honestly feels like CFC is making truly preposterous demands so it can act morally superior when the Nation does something bad - "if only you'd conceded to our patently ridiculous demands, maybe this wouldn't have happened!"

The CFC have never needed any incentive other than "it's there" to destroy something they didn't like before. Why has this suddenly changed?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-01-20 11:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Grideris
To be honest, I'm with Graelyn. For the moment, while you could roll into Stain with your fleet, that still wouldn't remove Sansha's Nation entirely. Don't forget, they have access to stable wormholes from points of their choosing. I wouldn't be surprised to find they had a large number of assets hidden away in unconnected systems, in empty space between systems or even in Anoikis. Until you develop the means of finding and reaching these hidden bases, all you'll do is mildy annoy them.

I also don't think CONCORD will give you all that you demand. Though on the flip side, I don't think you even need , let alone expect, all that you've asked for. But like you stated, this is your starting point, and you're open to negotiations: I would expect the demands to become more reasonable if you actually get anywhere. I think they would be more receptive to requests for them to bring their own forces and equipment (such as the anti-cloaking tech) in support of your campaign, but I believe that's as far as they would go.

Mind you, the moment you do work out how to generate/transit those wormholes and find all their hidden bases, I'll be right there with you shooting the bastards. I think it's great that you're offering: it's just that there are some problems that need to be worked out before this plan would work. If you really are serious about this, I would recommend you send a mail to Keraimo Hakanuro.


Andreus Ixiris wrote:
The CFC have never needed any incentive other than "it's there" to destroy something they didn't like before. Why has this suddenly changed?


I think the saying "If you're good at something, never do it for free" comes to mind.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-01-20 11:35:56 UTC
Grideris wrote:
I think the saying "If you're good at something, never do it for free" comes to mind.


They had pretty much no motivation other than ennui to disrupt the Caldari economy with Burn Jita, but they did it anyway, at substantial cost to their reimbursement system - which they accepted gladly, because it amused them.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#9 - 2013-01-20 11:40:12 UTC
Ahahaha, good luck!
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-20 11:41:26 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Grideris wrote:
I think the saying "If you're good at something, never do it for free" comes to mind.


They had pretty much no motivation other than ennui to disrupt the Caldari economy with Burn Jita, but they did it anyway, at substantial cost to their reimbursement system - which they accepted gladly, because it amused them.


I'm pretty sure that worked in with some clever market manipulation on their part to make a whole bunch of ISK for themselves. Not to mention that their operations were directed more at disrupting the Capslueer economy, not the Caldari economy.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need

Wei Soikutsu
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-01-20 12:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Wei Soikutsu
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I'm sorry, as much as I want to see the Sansha gone from this world, I can't help but feel like this press release is just meaningless posturing, which is something I thought you always strongly opposed. It honestly feels like CFC is making truly preposterous demands so it can act morally superior when the Nation does something bad - "if only you'd conceded to our patently ridiculous demands, maybe this wouldn't have happened!"

I find myself forced to agree; as much by the format of the message as its contents. If the proposal is even remotely serious, this should have been a diplomatic communique to CONCORD, not a post in a public forum. None or very few of us have any ability to affect these matters, or the opinion of someone who does, or even very valid opinions on the subject; nevertheless the notions presented will make many feel compelled to comment anyway.

This has the shape and smell of what I'm given to understand is called "trolling some random eggers, lol."
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#12 - 2013-01-20 15:12:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Evi Polevhia
Speaking as someone who has immense personal understanding of how Nation fights, and a greater understanding of how they behave then most Capsuleers (Ones not actively fighting for Kuvakei, anyways), I'd like to say you're somewhere between fatally ignorant and insane.

Alizabeth Vea wrote:
... luckily, Nation has not done more than enrich capsuleers. Nation vessels are destroyed at such a rate, that I am convinced Kuvakei's goal is to bankrupt CONCORD.


Nation forces in High Security space meet heavy resistance. Capsuleer cooperation in combination with CONCORD forces united are able to push off Incursions days after they start. During that time many, many more Nation forces fall then the number of Empire forces that is true. But in Low and Null security space there is no such cooperation. Many times though while Nation may be losing millions in high security space, in Low and Null they reap tens of millions or more as their Revenants are overseeing the "Uplifting", and then withdraw without serious contest.

Alizabeth Vea wrote:
The CFC would prosecute a total war against Nation, which would wipe the region of Stain literally off the map.

Our final goals would be simple. Using our immense super-capital and capital fleets we would not just bombard planets, but crack them in half. Nation stations would be similarly destroyed. All fleet anchorages, staging points, supply caches would be scanned down and eliminated. Finally, we would take advantage of our force projection abilities in the form of jump capable fleets and titan bridges to ensure secured systems were not re-inhabited by destroying stargates on our way out. Unlike the empire's efforts before, we would not be restrained. We would burn Stain to the ground before moving out to other regions infested by Nation.


Stain is a shadow. Ever since the Empires united to fight Kuvakei the first time, Stain has never again held even one percent of the forces of Nation. If you think you can obliterate Stain and declare victory you do not even know what you are fighting.

Alizabeth Vea wrote:

All safeties of capsuleer vessels that CONCORD has hardwired into pod interfaces will be removed in regions that Nation infests. Stargates, stations, planets and moons, as well as other minor structures will be designated as proper targets.


How dare this pirate organization target civilians! We'll stop that, let's go target civilians.

I'll be honest I've never seen the CFC as anything more then a neutral annoyance. I've either lived in high security space, or so far away from your kind in Null that your existence made no difference. But if this is the level of thinking you put into war efforts, I hope for all the CFC's sake that your Sky Marshall's or whoever know their enemies better.
Niraia
Starcakes
Cynosural Field Theory.
#13 - 2013-01-20 15:34:17 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Ahahaha, good luck!


I'd settle for the destruction of moronic so-called loyalists like this, who have accomplished nothing in their pathetic lives short of riding the coattails of a popular figure in the cluster and marginally increasing the weight of their amusingly meager wallets.

It would be most satisfying to see their corporation and stolen alliance fall to pieces.

You have my support and gratitude, Alizabeth.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#14 - 2013-01-20 15:46:39 UTC
Niraia wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Ahahaha, good luck!


I'd settle for the destruction of moronic so-called loyalists like this, who have accomplished nothing in their pathetic lives short of riding the coattails of a popular figure in the cluster and marginally increasing the weight of their amusingly meager wallets.

It would be most satisfying to see their corporation and stolen alliance fall to pieces.

You have my support and gratitude, Alizabeth.


I can agree with that. Let's go one step at a time instead of launching a sudden full scale assault. You could probably kill off more vermin with that method in the long run anyway.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-20 16:12:24 UTC
So, let me sum this up for you captain Vea: "if CONCORD is willing to lower their pants and give us a free fleet with millions of isk's worth, with additional technology banned from other pod pilots, protects our space and we get better insurances than most people... then we go out and do that job."

That's more or less your proposal. I don't like CONCORD, but I don't think they're stupid, so all of this petitions are, at best, laughable. Hell, if they are willing to do that, I'll go into wherever you believe Sansha Kuvakei is hiding (which, as has been said already, is beyond your reach) and guide a fleet of free super-capitals into victory. Why not? But, then again, why would CONCORD bother in giving any of those things to you instead of doing it themselves?

As it stands, I'm not sure if you're just trying to get a laugh out of your proposal, or simply are too stupid to undertsand the utter nonsense of your petition.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#16 - 2013-01-20 16:20:05 UTC
If CONCORD was so eager to see Stain destroyed, they would do so themselves.

If CONCORD was so eager to destroy Nation, they would do so themselves. This presumes their ability to backtrace the wormhole network from which National incursions emerge.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#17 - 2013-01-20 17:32:10 UTC
Niraia wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Ahahaha, good luck!


I'd settle for the destruction of moronic so-called loyalists like this, who have accomplished nothing in their pathetic lives short of riding the coattails of a popular figure in the cluster and marginally increasing the weight of their amusingly meager wallets.

It would be most satisfying to see their corporation and stolen alliance fall to pieces.

You have my support and gratitude, Alizabeth.


So I take it that you have decided that Nation isn't worth your time then, Niraia? This confirmation of already figured motivation is appreciated.

1) We do more for Nation every single day than you have ever accomplished.

2) You still think we stole the alliance? Oh dear.

3) You care about wallet size? We long ago stopped caring about ISK as anything other than yet another method to acquire material to accomplish the needs of Nation. I've said in the past that a society that requires money is a society in poverty, and this shows you to be very poor indeed.

However, again, thank you for your confirmation that you now cheer for the death of Nation. This completes your total marginalization and the destruction of what little influence you may still have maintained.

Fly safe!
Kalanaja
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-01-20 17:34:04 UTC
I have to wonder what the Jovians did with that rogue agent.
Niraia
Starcakes
Cynosural Field Theory.
#19 - 2013-01-20 17:53:07 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Niraia wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Ahahaha, good luck!


I'd settle for the destruction of moronic so-called loyalists like this, who have accomplished nothing in their pathetic lives short of riding the coattails of a popular figure in the cluster and marginally increasing the weight of their amusingly meager wallets.

It would be most satisfying to see their corporation and stolen alliance fall to pieces.

You have my support and gratitude, Alizabeth.


So I take it that you have decided that Nation isn't worth your time then, Niraia? This confirmation of already figured motivation is appreciated.

1) We do more for Nation every single day than you have ever accomplished.

2) You still think we stole the alliance? Oh dear.

3) You care about wallet size? We long ago stopped caring about ISK as anything other than yet another method to acquire material to accomplish the needs of Nation. I've said in the past that a society that requires money is a society in poverty, and this shows you to be very poor indeed.

However, again, thank you for your confirmation that you now cheer for the death of Nation. This completes your total marginalization and the destruction of what little influence you may still have maintained.

Fly safe!


1. I don't consider doing things for nation an accomplishment. It felt like it for a while, but you'll find out soon enough that Kuvakei doesn't place much value in his capsuleer-led ventures, and for good reason.

2. Ghost Hunter should be able to confirm. If not, it's well documented, just search. This is mostly why I hate you, if you were curious, as well as Kuvakei for allowing it to happen with no change in the relationship between TS-F and Nation. Unity, indeed.

3. You're part of the same society, I hate to admit. You need ISK to buy ships for these "accomplishments", right? Still, I'll happily accept donations, so you can prove your stupid point and make me "poor".

I've cheered for the death of Nation for quite a long time now, and have had zero influence for just as long.

I suppose this is what happens when arrogant pilots suddenly decide to jump into the shoes of a faction loyalist; they think they know everything, and don't bother researching the history of the organization they become a part of.

I'd encourage you to try and keep up, but willful ignorance is common, near-celebrated, in the faction you happened to pick.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2013-01-20 18:08:13 UTC
Apparently, unity is not always an absolute truth in loyalist Nation.
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