These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

reactive armor hardener usage
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#41 - 2013-01-17 18:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
Whang'Lo wrote:
Quote:
How about Navy Domi with Sentries? Where you put the Omnidirectionals?


This.

On my navy domi I really like:

Target Painter
Omnidirectional
Afterburner
Sensor Booster
Cap Recharger

And yes I have tried to shield tank it, I see little dps difference.

After trying both, I believe the armor tanked version clears level 4's quicker.





I'm intrigued. I don't really mission anymore and I never did fly a Navy Domi. But I put together a couple fits anyway. I'm wondering what everyone thinks. Though this isn't really on topic anymore. Oh well!

1200 DPS w/Gardes
Overheated ASB 728 Tank against Serp
Cap Stable
452M ISK

[Dominix Navy Issue, Lv 4 Shield]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Gist C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
[Empty Rig slot]


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Ogre II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

1038 DPS
310 Tank against Serp
439M ISK

[Dominix Navy Issue, Lv 4 Armor]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner II

350mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
[Empty Rig slot]


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Ogre II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


Not really sure what to do about rigs but hey, I'm just playing around anyway. You could also downgrade to 350mm Meta 4 guns and then dual ASB with 1 x-large and 1 large for backup when the x-large is reloading, for a very SILLY 1200 overheated tank from the x-large alone. The sustained tank of such a dual ASB fit factoring in recharge times would be 548.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#42 - 2013-01-17 20:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Stuff about domi


You need at least 2 Omni on a Domi for your drone performance.
Since you put Gist hardeners there you don't need more than 2 hardeners and 1 SBA.
So the tank is 2 hardeners, 1 SBA and 1 X-Large shield booster, X,A,B - type one. This tank is more than enough for any mission. Having a 4 mod tank allows you to use 2 Omni.

Also Ancillary Shield Booster is bad for PvE generally. I only had one fit with use of this mod, and it was for passive Rattle.

As for armor tanked domi, well for me it's just the same as fitting some Mach with the lasers.

Whatever.
Songbird
#43 - 2013-01-18 04:05:35 UTC
[Dominix Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Damage Control II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I


Garde II x5

Yeah 1280 dps on eft. Range for the hybrids is 36+30, Gardes are hitting at 45 + 12 , if you bring lower damage sentries you can go all the way up to 75km. Yeah I know the guy up there doesn't like to use ASB but I find them great. Turn off auto reload and recharge it while shooting at the last 2 BS(or 4-5 cruisers) before the next spawn
I don't see how you can armor tank a pve ship with 6 midslots.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#44 - 2013-01-18 04:40:36 UTC
Its a ship with 2 weapon systems, and a damage bonus for each. It just seems like madness NOT to shield tank it and throw 5 or 6 damage mods on it to help out both systems.
Whang'Lo
Cosmically Irrelevant
#45 - 2013-01-18 07:52:36 UTC
Quote:
[Dominix Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Damage Control II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I


Garde II x5


Interesting build. There's quite a few level 4's that the tank on this build can't handle though.

I realize that you can clear alot of the level 4's with a pretty craptastic tank. But there are some
where you need a pretty respectable tank. When you get those missions all the inherent advantages
of the shield tank setup go out the window.

[u]A Paranoid is just someone with all the facts - William Burroughs[/u]
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#46 - 2013-01-18 09:59:59 UTC
Well, navy dominix fitting and armor vs shield is quite nice topic, but does not fit this one exactly. Please stay on the main topic which is RAH usage.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#47 - 2013-01-18 10:36:11 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
Well, navy dominix fitting and armor vs shield is quite nice topic, but does not fit this one exactly. Please stay on the main topic which is RAH usage.


There is no usage for this mod. Period.
Armor tanking is inferior to shield tanking and RAH is too Cap hungry therefore there is no good usage for it.
Nothing else to add here.

Those who use RAH might fit lasers to a projectile ship as well or armor tank some caldari ship that has shield bonuses.

Whatever.
Songbird
#48 - 2013-01-18 12:51:39 UTC
It has use in pvp. In PvE everything is too predictable.

As for the guy who said my domi tank is crap, IIRC EFT said 645 sustained tank before the charges run out. After that you can still run the tank, as I advised you should turn off auto reload, so you can still run the xlASB on cap alone. You might have to shut down the guns and only activate the ASB when you hit the 30% shield point so you can also use the natural recharge of the shield and cap and not over boost but this is domi. It gets 6oo+ dps even without guns. Besides the tank can easily be amplified - use CN invuln (or gistum c-type or pithum), put boost amp instead of the AB. Hell the biggest tank for this specific fit and most shield fits comes from the speed with which it kills enemies. 10 Bs??? no problem, by the time they start shooting at you there's only 7 left. 1200 applied DPS is a beautiful thing. As for specific mission, for instance worlds collide where enemies are in your face nothing stops me from putting blasters and getting some 1500 close range dps with ogres.

But as somebody said - it's not a domi tank thread , it's a RAH one. I still say they should have given us ancillary armor reppers and given shield the useless mod :)
LordSpock
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-01-18 13:12:26 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Shpenat wrote:
Well, navy dominix fitting and armor vs shield is quite nice topic, but does not fit this one exactly. Please stay on the main topic which is RAH usage.


There is no usage for this mod. Period.
Armor tanking is inferior to shield tanking and RAH is too Cap hungry therefore there is no good usage for it.
Nothing else to add here.

Those who use RAH might fit lasers to a projectile ship as well or armor tank some caldari ship that has shield bonuses.


Period........Roll

Again this mod is very usefull on armor tanked, ships and not everyone uses the über best of the best for missions. Not everyone flies vindicators, machariels, rattlesnakes or any other fancy ship. Ships that do indeed shine like no other due to the fact they're shieldtanked.
I have seen people fly Apoc with 2*2 specific hardeners. There is already one solid reason to use the RAH, free one low-slot and get another heatsink and still have good resists.

Good you like to fly shieldtanked ships, but saying people that fly armorboats are brainless and probably the same people fitting lasers to projectile ships is a little shortsighted imo

However I do think I can optimize missionincome and try out my NavyDomi with a shield tank because some nice fits came up here. But my NGeddon will remain amrored tanked for the simple reason my alt just won't fly anything but Amarr and 1EM+1Th+RAH just simply does the trick in the sense of (perma) tanking for me.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#50 - 2013-01-18 13:55:25 UTC
LordSpock wrote:
Funky Lazers wrote:
Shpenat wrote:
Well, navy dominix fitting and armor vs shield is quite nice topic, but does not fit this one exactly. Please stay on the main topic which is RAH usage.


There is no usage for this mod. Period.
Armor tanking is inferior to shield tanking and RAH is too Cap hungry therefore there is no good usage for it.
Nothing else to add here.

Those who use RAH might fit lasers to a projectile ship as well or armor tank some caldari ship that has shield bonuses.


Period........Roll

Again this mod is very usefull on armor tanked, ships and not everyone uses the über best of the best for missions. Not everyone flies vindicators, machariels, rattlesnakes or any other fancy ship. Ships that do indeed shine like no other due to the fact they're shieldtanked.
I have seen people fly Apoc with 2*2 specific hardeners. There is already one solid reason to use the RAH, free one low-slot and get another heatsink and still have good resists.

Good you like to fly shieldtanked ships, but saying people that fly armorboats are brainless and probably the same people fitting lasers to projectile ships is a little shortsighted imo

However I do think I can optimize missionincome and try out my NavyDomi with a shield tank because some nice fits came up here. But my NGeddon will remain amrored tanked for the simple reason my alt just won't fly anything but Amarr and 1EM+1Th+RAH just simply does the trick in the sense of (perma) tanking for me.


Man, really no offence, but "Again this mod is very useful on armor tanked" is just the same as "this mod is very good for dying fast or tanking a sh*t". Armor tanking is bad, especially when you do PvE.

NGeddon just rocks when Shield tanked. You get like 4 med mods for a tank, which is enough because you don't need an AB for it. Scorch makes magic so your optimal is like 70km which is enough.
You fit 4 heat sinks, 3 TEs and 1 Cap power relay in lows and your ship starts making magic.

"but saying people that fly armorboats are brainless" - you see, shield tanked ship has more tank, uses less mods to tank, has more damage because of free lows and also performs better with the guns because of TEs and the most important thing it costs less to fit like that.
So yes, it is brainless to choose a bad fit over a good one.
If you like armor tanking because you just like it then it's alright, but saying armor tanking is good, viable or balanced overall is bad.

Whatever.
Goran Konjich
Krompany
#51 - 2013-01-18 14:17:01 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:

tl;dr


wtf is wrong with you ? have you even tried RAH ?

I'm a diplomat. Sometimes i throw 425mm wide briefcases at enemy. Such is EVE.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-01-18 15:09:45 UTC
One of the strongest armor modules you can fit on a (super)capital ship and one of the cheapest too.

No sig.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-01-18 15:14:32 UTC
It is best against as few damage types as possible not tried it against sleepers but I imagine it is not the best use for it.

PVE

I have used it in a few missions it works ok as third hardener against enemies with two damage types it seems quite good against guristas with their high kinetic damage component.

I used it on my Proteus in the dread pirate Scarlett as well as a exp hardener and faction eanm. Faced angels and guristas, versus angels interestingly went to 30/30 kin exp but after I had disposed of a certain number of rats then went full 60% exp. 60% kin versus the guristas element also.

PVP

Any passive armour buffer Afterburner fit frigate/cruiser can offset the cap by a small NOS. It is only it's questionable effectiveness against more than two damage types and whether it reacts quick enough compared to fight duration that puts the mod in doubt. Originally I felt it could be used to replace my exp rig/ hardener but it leaves too big a hole, omni your resists first.

I tried one on a AB plate Tristan, I do feel it helped against a laser tristan I fought but lost it to a dram that overwhelmed me too quickly. I had and upscaled Algos fit that I felt worked better. Algos can already fit great buffer and of you end up in a fight with a missile destroyer the RAH works well.

I have a Plated AB Vexor for brawling on FW medium complex entrances. Fourth mid is a tracking disrupter to help against turret ships and again I am using the RAH as an anti missile system. This vexor gets silly EHP against a ship that wants to use a single damage type.

On the Domi issue

Shield Domi is better close range mission runner, Armour Domi should still have more omni's and makes a better mid range/long range ship especially with micro jump drive.

Dual XL Asb navy Domi is a monster for PVP.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#54 - 2013-01-18 15:57:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Funky Lazers wrote:
A bunch of narrow minded carebear PVE BULLSHlT.

Just because shield tanking is generally the best choice for running missions, in high sec, does not make armor tanking crap. In PVP any ship without tackle mods is crap.

Every one of my PVE fits is sheild tanked, every one of my PVP fits is armor tanked. Every one of my PVP fits has at least one web and one wrap scram/disruptor, some have multiple. If you can not stop them from running, you can not kill them.

You group with a small fast tackle to catch them. But most of these will not last through the fight if they stay in tackle range. They just hold them until the larger ships can lock and use there own tackle. If you get caught by a couple ships in null with 2 warp disruptor and 4 webs on you, no amount of shield tank will save you. If you try to jump someone when you have a shield tank with no tackle they will just laugh and warp away. Some ships have enough mids to fit a shield tank and tackle, but I prefer to armor tank and use those extra slots for more tackle and E-war.

I would say from your comments that you are one of those PVE carebears that refuses any mission that sends you into low sec. It must really make you mad when you get a storyline "materials for war" that sends you into low sec. Those of use who are not scared little mama's boys have no problem going in and out of low sec, or null sec for that matter.

This discussion is about the utility of the RAH module. Not about whether to armor or shield tank in high sec missions.

The RAH module works very well in the right armor tanking setup. Whether you armor tank or shield tank in high sec is irrelevant to the discussion.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#55 - 2013-01-18 16:00:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
Funky Lazers wrote:
Shpenat wrote:
Well, navy dominix fitting and armor vs shield is quite nice topic, but does not fit this one exactly. Please stay on the main topic which is RAH usage.


There is no usage for this mod. Period.
Armor tanking is inferior to shield tanking and RAH is too Cap hungry therefore there is no good usage for it.
Nothing else to add here.

Those who use RAH might fit lasers to a projectile ship as well or armor tank some caldari ship that has shield bonuses.


At most its 6 cap a second. That's not that intensive.

It's BAD cap consumption for a non-weapon, don't get me wrong. I'm not ok with the fact that cap consumption goes up with training the relevant skill. But on bigger ships, they can get away with it. Especially amarr ships.

It's almost like a second damage control exclusively for armor ships. I just don't see how anyone could honestly claim its a BAD or USELESS mod.
Jullious Rhudabard
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-01-20 04:53:36 UTC
After reading what everyone had to say about them I bought one and tried it out in a situation where I'm fighting 3 different groups that each have thier own different dps profile (so to speak) and as I kill off each group I'm noticing that my resists bounce around. I read where people say you have to turn it off and back on to get it to reblance to a new type of dps but if that is true why is mine bouncing around as I kill ships? So it got me to thinking.

#1: If I am attacked by two ships, the first doing 20 dps of explosive and the 2nd doing 10 dps of thermal, then the mod should shift from 15/15/15/15 to 0/20/0/40, right?

#2: OK, say I kill the first ship, will it continue to shift until it is 0/60/0/0?

#3: Other than looking at your ship's resists and calculating backwards, is there a way to see what the mod's current resists are?

#4: How much does it shift per cycle?

#5: Do you turn it off and back on not to get it to rebalnce, because it already will do that eventually, but to speed it up (by resetting it)? i.e. faster to get from 0/60 to 60/0 by starting at 15/15 rather than coming all the way up from 0 or down from 60?
LordSpock
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-01-21 08:27:26 UTC
Jullious Rhudabard wrote:
After reading what everyone had to say about them I bought one and tried it out in a situation where I'm fighting 3 different groups that each have thier own different dps profile (so to speak) and as I kill off each group I'm noticing that my resists bounce around. I read where people say you have to turn it off and back on to get it to reblance to a new type of dps but if that is true why is mine bouncing around as I kill ships? So it got me to thinking.

#1: If I am attacked by two ships, the first doing 20 dps of explosive and the 2nd doing 10 dps of thermal, then the mod should shift from 15/15/15/15 to 0/20/0/40, right?

#2: OK, say I kill the first ship, will it continue to shift until it is 0/60/0/0?

#3: Other than looking at your ship's resists and calculating backwards, is there a way to see what the mod's current resists are?

#4: How much does it shift per cycle?

#5: Do you turn it off and back on not to get it to rebalnce, because it already will do that eventually, but to speed it up (by resetting it)? i.e. faster to get from 0/60 to 60/0 by starting at 15/15 rather than coming all the way up from 0 or down from 60?


#1 indeed
#2 It should. I have seen 60% on sansha missions
#3 You can rightclick the mosule and see the stats. Keep in mind the info window does not update after a full cycle so after a new cycle is done it might have different stats again.
#4 No idea tbh.
#5 Never tried that as I don't fly that many onmi missions.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#58 - 2013-01-21 10:48:18 UTC
RAHs are very useful on ships that have the capacitor to run them and that would use 3 EANM anyway. However, i don't think the RAH is something for supercaps, since a 3rd A-Type EANM should still have better resists - and losing some resistances because a fleet is shoting you with explosive sucks when you get doomsdayed right afterwards.
On carriers though it's quite useful. Cheap, effective. Probably pretty cool on Dreads, too.
Totaly useless on frigates, and very useful on some cruisers.
Jullious Rhudabard
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-01-21 21:12:21 UTC
Does the RAH base it's decision on "before resist" damage or "after resist" damage?

i.e. If I have 100 dps EM and 100 dps KN coming at me and
I've got 80% EM resist and 20% KN resist so that
I'm taking 20 dps EM and 80 dps KN

will the module shift to 30/30 or 12/48?
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#60 - 2013-01-21 21:34:58 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
However, i don't think the RAH is something for supercaps, since a 3rd A-Type EANM should still have better resists


I think this is where you went wrong, as a capital using hardeners should get less out of the third EANM due to stacking than it would get out of the RAH in an omni configuration.

At least, this is my understanding of the situation from what I got playing around in EFT.