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[Retribution 1.1] Black Ops Little Things - now with Covert Cyno update

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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#81 - 2013-01-19 15:24:36 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
They need T2 resists before black ops become usefull. I'd like to see two black ops for each race, one which can use covt jump portal and the other one a dps combat ship.

Both need the ability to fit cov ops cloaks.



At least this first change allows a small entity to hot drop for under 2billion isk with bombers and curses ect.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-01-19 15:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
if they split the ships into 2 one will collect dust in the hanger until a BLOps portal is needed

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#83 - 2013-01-19 16:15:11 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
if they split the ships into 2 one will collect dust in the hanger until a BLOps portal is needed


It is not like you have already two fitted BO in your hangar: one super pimped combat fit and on bridging fit.

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2013-01-19 16:29:33 UTC
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
if they split the ships into 2 one will collect dust in the hanger until a BLOps portal is needed


It is not like you have already two fitted BO in your hangar: one super pimped combat fit and on bridging fit.

Do you want this to remain the rule? I know I don't.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Spliffsan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-01-19 16:42:46 UTC
Long overdue; yes, yes and yes!
Tess La'Coil
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#86 - 2013-01-19 17:33:18 UTC
I'm gonna go on a limb here and put this idea here.

New Destroyer hulls will become CovOps capable Dictors.

Their "submarine look" explains it all.
Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother. 
Dirk Morbho
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2013-01-19 17:37:22 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I fear giving BO a covert cloak will make it over the top.


In it's current form - agreed. Perhaps there'd be a way to pull it off when looking @ Blops reblancing as a whole. Hard to say.


Also, Fozzie - Please give the Sin another turret hard point. Cool
Robert Mason
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#88 - 2013-01-19 18:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Mason
CCP Fozzie.....hero!

That is all

Forlorn Wongraven wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
if they split the ships into 2 one will collect dust in the hanger until a BLOps portal is needed


It is not like you have already two fitted BO in your hangar: one super pimped combat fit and on bridging fit.


Truth is strong in this one ;)
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-01-19 18:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Robert Mason wrote:
CCP Fozzie.....hero!

That is all

Forlorn Wongraven wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
if they split the ships into 2 one will collect dust in the hanger until a BLOps portal is needed


It is not like you have already two fitted BO in your hangar: one super pimped combat fit and on bridging fit.


Truth is strong in this one ;)

And CCP should continue to make ships that will sit in stations because.....

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-01-19 19:40:07 UTC  |  Edited by: fukier
Tess La'Coil wrote:
I'm gonna go on a limb here and put this idea here.

New Destroyer hulls will become CovOps capable Dictors.

Their "submarine look" explains it all.



i was hopeing they would become a cloak hunter ships...

what i envision is a pulse the goes out from the ship once ever 30 seconds and what it does is not decloak any ships in the area (30km pulse range 360 degrees) but puts them on the overview for 3 seconds which if you are lucky you can get within 2.5km and then decloak them...

it would make a fun mini profession... but i still say you if you afk cloak you should be safe... perhaps a mechanic wear any non tech II cloak requires Liquid ozone to operate (like 1 unit per cycle or something)

or if you have a tech I cloak on it and do not move for an hour there should be enough tachions emited from the ship to make the scanable via probes (like in star trek with old school klingon cloaks)

but tech II or covert ops should never be detectable...

plus make 0.0 delayed local and improve directional scanner...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Evanga
DoctorOzz
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#91 - 2013-01-19 21:42:27 UTC
awesome Big smile
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-01-19 23:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Greetings spacefriends.

Those of you who have read the CSM minutes (You've read the CSM minutes, right?) will already know that we have a modest package of Black Ops tweaks in the pipeline that didn't quite make it into Retribution 1.0. These changes are meant to reduce some of the difficulties using Black Ops battleships for covert bridging, and hopefully open up some more options for those of you who are or will be involved in covert gameplay. This is not the big Black Ops rebalance, and we here at CCP do not consider Black Ops "done" after these changes. We are putting these tweaks out now since it may be a while before we can get to the full Black Ops rebalance and we don't want to leave them in their current state in the meantime.

None of this will be a surprise to you avid minute-readers, but for everyone else here's what we have planned:

  • Increase the base jump range of all Black Ops ships to 3.5 light years (equal to that of Titans)
  • Reduce the mass multipler used for Covert Jump Portal fuel costs from 0.00000018 to 0.000000135 (Reduces the fuel cost of covert bridges by 25%)
  • Increase the fuel bay on all Black Ops to 1250m3 (25% increase)


These changes will not be in the current Sisi build but should be in the build after that so you can start playing with them. We're aiming to have the changes out in Retribution 1.1 on February 12th.

Let us know what you think of the proposed changes in this thread.

:Edit: Also apparently Two Step is getting close to me in likes so you should all like this post. Takk. :Edit:


Frantically i think these changes are over the top.
You have basically made a pvp ship class with limited movement into a - pvp taxi class.

Burn Eden is one of the corps with a proven long term impressive stats using black ops. They have proven that black ops are very good for pvp. Now you give it a range of a titan at 5% the cost of titan and to top it all up they can move massive amount of ships just like a titan? Not to mention that they can jump into a cyno blocked system!

I think this is whats wrong here. You either make it a taxi or a pvp ship but not both. If you are gonna make a taxi of if, please nerf its dps or ability to spider tank. Its too much for a tini fraction of the cost of a titan!
By removing their ability to use heavy repair drones and some power grid may do the trick here. But this nonsence of remote repping with heady drones and having a decent dps and tank while making very long jumps including into cyno blocked systems and acting as trojan horse is too op.

Its important to strike a balance here. So far from what i can see, not much thought has been put behind these changes.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-01-19 23:35:13 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Now you give it a range of a titan at 5% the cost of titan and to top it all up they can move massive amount of ships just like a titan?

But they can't move a massive amount of ships like a titan. Only if they can fit a covert cloak can a ship take the cover jump portal, where a titan can bridge any ship outside of those with jump drives (not sure about black ops ships themselves). So that narrows the 'just like a titan' down to covert ops, bombers, force recons, T3 with covert subsystems and of course the black ops battleships which will just jump and not take the bridge. Another thing to consider is the fuel consumption to bridge. Under current fuel consumption mechanics; it's cheaper for a titan to bridge a freighter then for a black op to bridge 2 rapiers!! So even after the buff proposed in this thread by Fozzie, the titan is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar superior in bridging ships around in fuel efficiency.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-01-19 23:40:17 UTC
would be better if they removed bridging from everything but the blops that way its a useful ship and actually black ops/covert

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#95 - 2013-01-20 01:59:24 UTC
While I agree that BO have been in dire straights a bit, I'm very much against making jump capable ships more "powerful", more range is fine and less annoyance is also fine. But if the future changes are about making them more viable in a combat situation I'm very much against it.

Jump bridges and jump capable ships are the very reason why we have boring and meaningless 0.0 and I would hope CCP to tone them down rather than to add more of them.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-01-20 02:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Vilnius Zar wrote:
While I agree that BO have been in dire straights a bit, I'm very much against making jump capable ships more "powerful", more range is fine and less annoyance is also fine. But if the future changes are about making them more viable in a combat situation I'm very much against it.

Jump bridges and jump capable ships are the very reason why we have boring and meaningless 0.0 and I would hope CCP to tone them down rather than to add more of them.

Perhaps nerfing the range of all other jumping and bridging ships instead of buff the BO jump and bridge range would make black ops a bit more competitive. Big smile But yeah, I understand your concern about power projection.
Syzygium
Ventures Bar
#97 - 2013-01-20 06:46:43 UTC
Yeah, even more hotdropping. *clap clap*

The Fuel-Change is okay, the range increase is just plain stupid. Its more than stupid, because it makes hotdrops even easier and that just means one thing: more GANKS.

Thank you CCP, for more one-sided engagements where instead of scouting, misinformation about the own strenght and good tackle, you only need a Cynobait + Gankfleet to jump on some fool who dared to pick a fight some lightyears away.

It's another step in the wrong direction, I wonder when the devs notice that all this no-risk-hotdropping is growing like a cancer.

BOs were already fine in the hands of a skilled group of players. This buff was completely unnessessary.
ry ry
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2013-01-20 11:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ry ry
Tess La'Coil wrote:
I'm gonna go on a limb here and put this idea here.

New Destroyer hulls will become CovOps capable Dictors.

Their "submarine look" explains it all.

That is the worst idea ever.

racial ewar bonuses on blops on the other hand, is pretty cool. it doesn't have to be huge recon-esque bonuses to give blops some much needed utility.
Tomytronic
Perkone
Caldari State
#99 - 2013-01-20 11:56:52 UTC
I have to say that I quite dislike the idea of EVE becoming more focused on the brilliant game mechanic where your gang sits on a single ship for hours waiting for a cyno ship to find someone who can't fight back. It doesn't create pvp content in any meaningful fashion and just keeps gangs apart from each other while they try and find someone weak to drop on.

I thought CCP was trying to create more active PvP with the small ship rebalancing and the increased focus on roaming. Instead, the seriously flawed hotdrop mechanic is getting a hefty buff. Who will engage in small gang now knowing that there'll more than likely be a bomber/falcon/rapier gang sitting on a Sin one bridge away? The bs doesn't even need to be remotely risked anymore.

With these changes, now you can just stick a Black Ops bs in a carrier and bingo, here's your titan; you can take it anywhere on deployment with the minimum of hassle and avoid actually having to encounter things that aren't 100% to your advantage. This is once again not creating or driving together conflict - something that ostensibly was the idea behind the jump bridge nerf - this is forcing it apart.
Quindaster
Infernal Laboratory
Infernal Octopus
#100 - 2013-01-20 18:26:33 UTC
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Want to make the Black Ops more worthwhile flying?

Simple, give them their racial EWAR bonus.

Right now the only ship benefiting from it's racial EWAR bonus is the Widow, and to good effect, because why would I jump a billion isk ship into a fight, when I could throw a stealth bomber into the battle instead, with almost double the DPS at a fraction of the cost?

Making the Sin a long range point with damps, the Redeemer a close range neut boat like the Pilgrim and the Panther a web bonus like the panther would make them more worth fielding.

- Dread


Absolutely stupid idea.

Black Ops NOT a tackler. You play this game 2 weeks, right?

For this ewar we have RECON ships.
And what you want to damp in close range?! OMG, you noob.

close range redeemer with neuts...you crazy.
Somebody save us from this idiotic ideas.