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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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New Player Feedback (long)
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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#21 - 2013-01-18 18:04:30 UTC
If you start a new account you are by default in the "rookie" chat, a channel designed especially FOR new players.
Furthermore, there is almost always an ISD-guy around (easily recognizable by their blue (teal) or green writing) whose job it is to answer all your newbie questions (and who probably know the Tutorials by heart).

Really, this is as close as a mentor-mentee system can go and I don´t know helping new players could be further improved.

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]
Tyberius Koto
#22 - 2013-01-18 20:58:45 UTC
I gotta second Nerath Naaris, I recently created an alt just for fun to experience the new player experience in EVE after retribution hit. While I had years of experience under my belt, I found the Rookie Help channel to be extremely courteous and helpful, whether there was an ISD present or not. Of course there is the occassional troll, but most times people really tried to help. But Whining, complaining, swearing, and an obviously reluctance of the player to want to read the tutorials was generally greeted with harsh words. This is EVE, it is a harsh world, you need to try and figure it out, and if you can't ask for assistance.

I could count about once every 10 minutes "Where is my ship?". Seriously?!? That's the first thing you do, is the tutorial quest to get your first ship in space.... come on!!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-01-18 21:50:59 UTC
Zyn Graveside wrote:
I decided to try this game out after 9 years, because I kept seeing information about the game. I am very impressed with the depth of this game and have decided to try the game out with the free trial.

I was having some fun at first; however all that quickly faded:

The new player learning curve is HUGE, I was following the first tutorials and was actually seeing how indepth this game goes.

Then came my career choice and decided to try exploration. This sounds like something I would like to do and would enjoy in the long run.

I started out doing the 1 and 2 tutorials of this and learning about the anomalies out there I could find. Then the game went to hell for a "I throw you to the wolves" sort of mentality.

I went to the wrong area trying to find a Gramatic anomaly using probes. Well my ship was destoryed and I had to go back and dock. I was able to get my "Starter" ship back up and was going to try it again.

This is where things went down hill, the mission requires you to have a "Pass Key" to access the second part of the training career. Well I can't get my contents from my other ship because the pirates - 4 shot me and I die again.

What I don't understand is that, I couldn't complete a career training mission (Learning about all the types of anomalies out there" because of no "pass key" to space jump to second part of mission. I deleted the training mission because I was frustrated and now the stupid agent will not talk to me.

If this is a training career mission...then why the hell would you have it that it will not talk to me any more for a certain period of time. I have to wait or might not ever learn about anomalies if I can't chat with him for training. I DO NOT want to do the other career aspects of the game at this time, because the "TIME SINK" is huge when you are trying to learn the game and the "reward/fun vs. Time Sink" isn't very great imo.

I believe if you wanted to attract new players to this game after 9 years then have a space area that trains players and not hinders them. If players feel like they know over 30-50% of the game somewhat they might actually want to sub and then as more players join the game, older players see new blood and life into the game and might return as wel.

I just can't at this time, see myself sinking time and money into a game that hinders me from the start in learning "Vital" aspects of a game which involves multiple careers.

Good luck and thanks for the free trial.


TL:DR

Whine, whine, whine mixed in with a very impatient person. Don't think he would have got EVE-fever even if he did manage to complete the career agents (which can be done 12 times, which can be petitioned for a reset).

So all in all, the OP makes me think this guy just isn't cut for EVE and cause of that didn't subscribe. All in all, the tutorials are pretty good (not perfect though) in explaining you everything.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-01-18 21:58:40 UTC
Zyn Graveside wrote:


In the end this is a "game" and there are many of them, some requiring subs and others f2p...when learning something new you want to have fun and learn the mechanics, if you suffer learning the mechanics then do you think you will continue to grow or shrink in new players joining up.

I am not complaining, I am stating my opinion as a new player wanting to find a game with depth and fun and overall - mature and great community.


1.) EVE has been growing ever since it was released. EVE tutorials now are WAY better then when I started 2 years ago (back then the tutorials was: [start of tutorial] This is your ship, this is a gun, this is miner, bottom left is undock button. Good luck pilot [end of tutorial].

And from the amount of new players I see on these forums, in the (Rookie) Help channels, Rookie Corps and general in game, I say that EVE still has plenty of people that join and stick with the game. Cause it's not your type of game with YOUR type of tutorial system doesn't make it that the game is bad.

2.) Good luck finding an in depth game with a mature community that gives you hand-holding tutorials.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-01-18 22:02:27 UTC
Zyn Graveside wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Zyn Graveside wrote:


I believe if you wanted to attract new players to this game after 9 years then have a space area that trains players


Good luck and thanks for the free trial.


Training is your responsibility and no NPC can do it as well as another player. A simple google search or a question here would have led you to a wealth of knowledge. Instead you posted "waaaaa this game makes me read and has consequences even on day one waaaaa."

Good luck in your search for a game that is hard and rewarding but also holds your hand like a two year old.






P.S.
Maire use some spaces between paragraphs or your stuff just looks like an unreadable wall of text.



Awesome, a new player is posting his opinion and being slammed by the players of a community because what they have been through in the 6 hours of play...hmm. Thanks but no thanks, you can keep what community you have and good luck with the game and new players joining.

ps. I have done some research on the game, but "google" isn't the game...and by the way if you do google the game information, there are "MANY" threads about the "Elitist Jerks and bad community" outside of the new player channel. Thank you for actually making those threads true to their word.


Love how you rant and whine on the community here. Been playing many MMOs / Multiplayer games, EVE has the best community ever on the forums (apart from GD and COAD).

The big point is, come to the forums with a well thought questions about how to improve something, how to learn something or just general information. You WILL receive a truck load of well informed and generally friendly comments (want proof, read other thread here in NCQA).

Come to the forums to whine like a rage quiting teenager and all the trolls that live deep inside us will surface and show you how cut throat EVE can be, both in game and on the forums.

You, obviously, fall in the 2nd category.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-01-18 22:15:52 UTC
Zull Zyion wrote:
Thank you for all the positive comments and to those that are semi-trolling me to leave for this game might not be for me, well you are correct.

I understand the older generation that came to the game from start or even in the last 4 - 5 years had a HUGE learning curve as well and sometimes it was try and try again to achieve things. Today thou, it is 2013 and the game has made many vast improvements, but I still question one thing.

If new-blood isn't having fun in a tutorial, then how do you keep them and willingly pay a subscription? I am new face in a 9 year old game with many new games on the horizon. What is calling me to this game, the space adventure of an open world? "HELL YEAH!!!", but if one can't survive in tutorials missions or doesn't understand the full effect of the game then most will leave and say stupid stuff like, "I'll wait until it is F2P" which to me is just down right silly.

I am not whinning about the game, it is awesome and wish I would've started the game 9 years ago, because I love getting into a world from the start and help it develop.

All I was stating, if there was a more mistake friendly tutorial before I did the leap of faith. Things like a mission reset for just the tutorial area, something like the Passkeys you need. Then when a new player does something stupid they don't feel like they have wasted their time, resource and then become frustrated and move back to another game.

When a new player reaches said end of tutorials and career path missions, they are given a message like, "Welcome to the Universe of Eve, from this point forward you are vulnerable and responsible for the decision you make as you progress within...enjoy."

Anyhow, thanks community and I wish you all well in the universe of Eve.


On bolded:

Well we, the EVE community, tend to try to convince people to stay by showing them how awesome this game is and by helping them with their questions and problems so that they too can see how awesome that game is and that even they as a fresh new player have a part in how the history of the EVE universe will be displayed in the future.

What we ask in return:
* Have an open mind about anything in game and any advice given.
* Take anything you hear from anyone with a grain (or bucket) of salt cause it CAN be totally false.
* Ask GOOD questions, so not something like: What should I do? but more like: I jumped through a low-sec gate and got killed within seconds, what can I do to survive / get out? (so as specific as possible / related to the game and not personal interest).
* Be willing to accept advice and criticism from others.
* That you will have fun playing cause EVE is a game and games are played to have fun.

AS for the underlined:

That will just have postponed your exact same OP post. You would have learned in a risk free enviroment, moved out to the real world to be blown up cause you didn't learn that there would be NPC rats in that exploration pockets in real.
Or that any other player could shoot you as soon as you undocked.
A risk free tutorial part in EVE would be giving new player a very very VERY false idea of what EVE is. EVE tutorials as they are there now actually are quite good in the way that they mimic the EVE universe quite good, they are harsh and research and having friends / a corp do help.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Zull Zyion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-01-18 23:07:45 UTC
J'Poll,

IF EON ever presented a picture in their ISK Volumes of a TROLL, I seriously think your Eve portrait would be the budding example.

My forum posting wasn't a whine or rant...it was a new player "trial acct" stating an obvious experience. To anyone that has bashed me because I made my own opinions, OH well, trolls and bad community are like moths to a flame.

I thanked everyone that responed with great balance of ideas and directions I could possibly follow. These are the players that make a difference in Eve:Online and pull those new players and potential subscribers to this game, because in the end it is just a game.

I will enlighten you J'Poll about communities. I have played games that brought about the inception of MMO's. These communities were the backbone of their games in those days and there were hardly no trolls back in those days. The reason for this was because the player base was smaller and the communities were more tight and shunned potiental "Ass-Hats".

To the players of this community that know some of those past games (aka "MUDs") then you understand some were complicated and down-right broken, but we played. I become involved in games such as Merdian 59 and DragonRealms, using dial-up back then.

In hindsight, J'Poll you should know the person before you go making comments about them needing games that hold hands and tutorials that teach. In this day and age games are a vast improvement in retrospect of the games before them.

a prime example of this J'Poll is Eve itself. It was launched in 2003 and is 9 years strong. It has made leaps and bounds in helping players of all aspects, while stay to the core design.

However, real-life affects us all and things change, players must scale back or potentially move on. No game or business is immune to this and over time has to adept/change to maintain and/or grow their customer base.

I put this question to you, "What would you change, if anything, in order to increase the growth of this game for new player subscriptions?"
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-01-18 23:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Zull Zyion wrote:
J'Poll,

IF EON ever presented a picture in their ISK Volumes of a TROLL, I seriously think your Eve portrait would be the budding example.

My forum posting wasn't a whine or rant...it was a new player "trial acct" stating an obvious experience. To anyone that has bashed me because I made my own opinions, OH well, trolls and bad community are like moths to a flame.

I thanked everyone that responed with great balance of ideas and directions I could possibly follow. These are the players that make a difference in Eve:Online and pull those new players and potential subscribers to this game, because in the end it is just a game.

I will enlighten you J'Poll about communities. I have played games that brought about the inception of MMO's. These communities were the backbone of their games in those days and there were hardly no trolls back in those days. The reason for this was because the player base was smaller and the communities were more tight and shunned potiental "Ass-Hats".

To the players of this community that know some of those past games (aka "MUDs") then you understand some were complicated and down-right broken, but we played. I become involved in games such as Merdian 59 and DragonRealms, using dial-up back then.

In hindsight, J'Poll you should know the person before you go making comments about them needing games that hold hands and tutorials that teach. In this day and age games are a vast improvement in retrospect of the games before them.

a prime example of this J'Poll is Eve itself. It was launched in 2003 and is 9 years strong. It has made leaps and bounds in helping players of all aspects, while stay to the core design.

However, real-life affects us all and things change, players must scale back or potentially move on. No game or business is immune to this and over time has to adept/change to maintain and/or grow their customer base.

I put this question to you, "What would you change, if anything, in order to increase the growth of this game for new player subscriptions?"


You made me smile by calling me a troll and I'm very very happy too by it, I can only imagine all those real trolls that are angry now.

This shows how little research you have done. How little you know about the EVE community. How little you know about what the NCQA is used for. (tip: look at my forum post history for starters. After that, talk to the other NCQA residents).

And I wouldn't change a single thing about how the EVE tutorials work, maybe improve them a bit on some things, but in the style that they currently are.

I rather have 1 quality new player that knows how EVE works, knows that Google is your biggest friend, knows where to ask questions and also actually asks them (rather then your "I don't like the current tutorials, so I won't sub" post) then 1.000.000 brainless teenagers subscribing to the game.

EVE is a special kind of game that attracts only a limited audience and that is what makes EVE a good MMO in my opinion. I played a lot of others like said, and in none of them I got the community feeling of EVE, in none of them I got the feeling I was actually using my brains to do stuff / find things out. That's the whole thing that I personally like about EVE, it requires some thinking and dedication, if you can't / don't want to use either of them, then EVE won't be the game for you. If you DO want to use your brain, if you do not mind having Google open a lot (like we all did when we were newbs), if you don't mind learning things the hard way, then EVE will be a game you will love for a long time.


As for your response that I should know people before saying they need a game that teaches them the game, wasn't you that posted you wanted a less risky tutorial (area). That sound very much hand holding to me.

And like I said before. EVE has been GAINING numbers ever since it was released. So all that mocking they need to change things to attract new players too the game...why? They are still growing each single year, name any MMO that survives for 9 years and has an increase in subscribers every year while not being some lame F2P game...

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-01-18 23:45:01 UTC
Zull Zyion wrote:
My forum posting wasn't a whine or rant...it was a new player "trial acct" stating an obvious experience.
And we offered help, in spite of being phrased not as "I'm having trouble with X, can you tell me what I can do?" but instead as "I had X happen to me, and this is why your game sucks". I deal with a lot of people who would rather complain than help themself, and it is a relief to not have to deal with many of them in EVE.
Quote:
I have played games that brought about the inception of MMO's. These communities were the backbone of their games in those days and there were hardly no trolls back in those days. The reason for this was because the player base was smaller and the communities were more tight and shunned potiental "Ass-Hats".
I frequented some different MUDs, MUSHes and MOOs than you did, but I know the feeling. That said, all the communities I have dealt with that have flourished had that same expectation of self-sufficiency in its members. They all have been open with help, but shunned those who made one-sided demands or declarations of helplessness portrayed as the fault of the community and game. Those people have always been the ones wearing the foppish mushroom-shaped hats in any community.
Quote:
a prime example of this.. is Eve itself.. It has made leaps and bounds in helping players of all aspects, while stay to the core design. However.. things change...
Let me see if I understand what you are saying correctly: "EVE is the only game which is actually still growing, whereas all other games are shrinking. Clearly, EVE is dying and needs to take on the model of its failing competitors in order to survive!" This doesn't make a lot of sense to me for you to ask this.

I would suggest that perhaps you need to step back and return to your start point in this conversation and try again to mesh in with the very helpful and active community here by trying to capture this spirit of assisted self-sufficiency, instead of projecting something different onto this thriving community and being disappointed to find that no, you aren't on your other game, you are on EVE.
Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-01-19 00:03:39 UTC
Zull Zyion wrote:
J'Poll,

IF EON ever presented a picture in their ISK Volumes of a TROLL, I seriously think your Eve portrait would be the budding example.

Dude!

J'poll puts more time and effort into helping noobs like you on this forum than prolly anyone!

You might not like whats being said but "TROLL". Sereiously!

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Flakey Foont
#31 - 2013-01-19 00:35:34 UTC
EVE is not for everyone.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#32 - 2013-01-19 02:31:38 UTC
@Zyn

Ignore the trolls in this post. Overall, you are correct to assume that this game may not be for you. But you always have the chance to keep trying to push yourself should you decide to come back.

Remember, the reason Eve Online is so popular due to its constant growth during the past 10 years is because the universe is harsh and challenging. Many of us here are adults who have lives, careers, and things like that yet still get drawn into the game regardless of the $15/month subscription cost because the way the game is made makes it worth it.

Of course, games like WoW may have millions of players compared to Eve's 450,000 subscribers, but look at the quality of the game. WoW is just a theme park MMO where everyone expects their hands to be held along the way. In Eve, as soon as you undock you are expected to learn how to survive on your own even if the learning experience is brutal to begin with. No hand holding outside of the extremely few starter systems that are available (which aren't profitable at all).

Adapt or Die
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#33 - 2013-01-19 03:48:34 UTC
Well, it looks like you are staying Zull and I can't wait for you to join a player corp so I can instruct you on 30-50% of EvE.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-01-19 06:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Zyn Graveside wrote:


I believe if you wanted to attract new players to this game after 9 years then have a space area that trains players


Good luck and thanks for the free trial.


Training is your responsibility and no NPC can do it as well as another player. A simple google search or a question here would have led you to a wealth of knowledge. Instead you posted "waaaaa this game makes me read and has consequences even on day one waaaaa."

Good luck in your search for a game that is hard and rewarding but also holds your hand like a two year old.






P.S.
Maire use some spaces between paragraphs or your stuff just looks like an unreadable wall of text.


Great job flaming someone who just needs helpful advice instead of condecending tones.

If you want more people to pew pew with then you need to help people learn the game instead of putting them down.

To answer the OP, you need to learn you skills up and petition for a reset maybe in order.

Personally exploration was too complicated. You should try either mining or missioning to start out with. Missions are more for fighting and mining is just for earning isk without too much risk (depending).

I'd try to google eve ships fits for frigates to help you with defeating the NPC reds.

[edit]

Also I suppose I should advertise the chat channel which you should join dedicated to helping newbies over teamspeak (and you can learn a lot about eve by listening to people just shooting the breeze or fighting in FW).

The channel is "EvE Voice Help's" and the teamspeak address is in the message of the day.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#35 - 2013-01-19 07:35:50 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:


Also I suppose I should advertise the chat channel which you should join dedicated to helping newbies over teamspeak (and you can learn a lot about eve by listening to people just shooting the breeze or fighting in FW).

The channel is "xxx Help's" and the teamspeak address is in the message of the day.



Yeah, it's much better to recruit for your channel here which is against the rules...
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-01-19 09:33:49 UTC
The new player experience is notoriously atrocious. It's a complex game and explaining everything in simplistic terms (no insult intended) has proven to be near impossible. Or so far nobody has successfully created a good newbie tutorial yet.

CCP is trying, but I believe they could do better. Pure-Text tutorials are so 2002. They're bland, they're uninteresting, and they don't hold newbies attention.

I think the best thing you can do is to just forget the tutorials all together and join a newbie friendly corp. Many players will insist you go back and suffer through the tutorial, but IMO sometimes the best way to learn is from fellow players.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-01-19 09:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Captain Tardbar wrote:


Great job flaming someone who just needs helpful advice instead of condecending tones.

If you want more people to pew pew with then you need to help people learn the game instead of putting them down.

To answer the OP, you need to learn you skills up and petition for a reset maybe in order.

Personally exploration was too complicated. You should try either mining or missioning to start out with. Missions are more for fighting and mining is just for earning isk without too much risk (depending).

I'd try to google eve ships fits for frigates to help you with defeating the NPC reds.

[edit]

Also I suppose I should advertise the chat channel which you should join dedicated to helping newbies over teamspeak (and you can learn a lot about eve by listening to people just shooting the breeze or fighting in FW).

The channel is "EvE Voice Help's" and the teamspeak address is in the message of the day.


Nice covert recruitment part in your edit...almost got away with it.

And as for your post, the OP clearly doesn't need help. Each single post he maked he whines and says he won't be subscribing. So why WOULD we even bother to try and teach him the game, I rather put that effort into a new player with the correct and open minded attitude.

And secondly, just cause you don't like explorations doesn't mean it's a PITA and people just should move to missions / mining.
This is where you are 10000% wrong, people should do what they like, even if it's something that you don't.

If his OP was more in the line of:

Okay. I started this game about 6 hours ago and need some help. I was doing the exploration tutorials and lost my ship in it while I went into the Gravimetric site. What happened and how can I prevent this from happening again.

In stead the OP:

* Whines how the tutorials are too hard.
* Rage quited a career agent (which also has a pop up that says that if you quit, you can't continue the agent) and complained that he can't do it anymore (which is false, there are 12 career agent stations in EVE, he just has to move).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#38 - 2013-01-19 10:05:50 UTC
OP is either a troll or a non-effort clown. Either way, any constructive effort on our part is a waste of time in this case, just stop trying and move on to other threads :)
flakeys
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-01-19 10:40:47 UTC

I'm in eve for over 9 years and AT LEAST once a week i learn new stuff.

The struggle you have with that tutorial ... embrace it because that is how eve will feel for the first year to start with and then once you think you know it all it'll slap you again and again and again to show how ignorant you where thinking to know EvE.


It is what makes this game the best game out there and god at times i wish there where more because frankly i feel improssened to eve because there is just no competing game to go to.

Be persistant and don't back down that's the biggest rule in eve.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
CerN Frostwolf
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-01-19 13:50:47 UTC
I enjoyed all the tutorials EXCEPT the exploration one. That one is hell on earth, and I will never be doing exploration in this game:p
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