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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

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Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#2181 - 2013-01-18 22:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaekessa
Current POS mechanics are a steaming pile of feces.

CCP, Please don't abandon the revamp.

Starbase 2.0 needs to be done, please.

LOL, I didn't know feces would be censored, otherwise I would've just used ****
Phizban
The Needs Of The Few
#2182 - 2013-01-18 22:48:49 UTC
Posting in a threadnaught.

Or maybe this has become a threadnarok.

Anyhoot - 6 years playing and my 2 isk:

POS got timers shortened for online/offline tower/modules.

POS got fuel blocks.

Security has never been a theme of EVE. The risk of being stabbed in the back is part of EVE. More divisions and more security makes things HARDER to manage not easier.

Managing any type of roles in the corporations is borked. Everyone in my corp is a director. Risky? Sure. Could I get screwed? Sure. That is also the reason I play EVE. I have been screwed. I have also been rewarded with epic loyalty... for now anyway.


POS being small part of player base? What planet are you living on? Thousands and thousands of POS in hi-sec alone. People grinding faction for hi-sec POS is probably the MAJORITY of mission runners.

meh
P5LD2SE
Star Mining Corporation
#2183 - 2013-01-18 22:48:51 UTC
post
mr roadkill
Silent but Violent
#2184 - 2013-01-18 22:51:55 UTC
Another post...

Cus really, these people are right... pos needs work ccp.
Max Biados
Kriegsmarinewerft
Goonswarm Federation
#2185 - 2013-01-18 22:56:29 UTC
CCP... the current pos systems needs a workover :D
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2186 - 2013-01-18 23:01:00 UTC
I am one of the POS users right now. From my perspective I loved the idea of a modular pos.
What i would want from the pos:es is

1# make it totaly modular that a new player can use a lowgrade version of every module to get industry slots.

2# make them scalable from the 1person manufacturing/research (personal pos) to the huge starwars like deathstar pos with guns and even more guns.

3# allow new modular modules to be added like docking bay and shield expander (forcefield today) that allow every other station in game to be exchanged for a new POS. this would make them destructable.

4# once this is in place remove 95% of all build/research slots in highsec stations (or even better remove 90% of all highsec stations let the players run them).

5# create a

I would love a minigame like how i setup my pos from a resource point of view.
for example
a Powercore creates powergrid but creates heat and eats fuelblocks
from the powercore i can add datacores that also create heat and eat power
then we got the normal modules like Labs & Manufacturing & guns etc.
with the new Docking bay (so you can dock like in a station) if you got a habitat module.
combined with a force shield generator that can expand a shield (so our supers can be safe) at high cost of power and cpu.
giveing then all modules a bonus if the adjent module is of the same type.
and a heatsink module that allow the heat to dispatch faster (when you start to stack you modules)



POS i highsec cost system status nr of licence charts every hour the cost of those should be substantial thus giving the player/corp/alliance an incentative to move to "cheaper and more dangerous territory"

the other bonus from this thinking is

# you move all the manufacturing to a bigger risk, that of a player owned stations that can be destroyed.
# thues boosting both mercs & pirates alike.
and giving the nullsec a big incentative to run the manufactuing in nullsec.

with this thinking and with a "civilian modules" you can introduce POS for new players


You could also make the POS the backbone for a nullsec revamp removing station,IHUB,TCU,TBU and moving its functiosn to new modules for the modular pos.

I know its asking to mutch but put a small team on starting to build the building blocks for the new pos,es even if it takes
Galatea Galilei
Summa Universalia
#2187 - 2013-01-18 23:15:00 UTC
[Reposting my thoughts from another thread, as this appears to be the more appropriate place for them.]

Arguing about how many people are affected by POS issues and whether they're a small portion of the community or not misses the point entirely. Their willingness to devote time to niches of the game is the problem here.

The wonderful thing about EVE is there are so many diverse things you can do. Not everyone does everything in EVE, and many of us do things that only a small portion of the community really does. The game has a huge variety of small niches. That's what makes EVE great.

If CCP is going to from now on only concentrate on adding or improving things that affect the majority, they will strip away from the game its greatest feature. It will certainly make the game much more homogenous, and probably reduce their work-load a lot, and allow them to devote more attention to features that affect more people. But the game will rapidly lose its depth, if this is to be the future direction CCP takes. It's worrisome to hear that kind of talk.
Seelen Jager
Perkone
Caldari State
#2188 - 2013-01-18 23:37:23 UTC
I think that it is the wrong approach to view a pos fix as something that only helps a few players. If done well the fix will get many more people making use of individual pos's thus making it a fix that helped a great many players.
Eco Gordianus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2189 - 2013-01-18 23:47:45 UTC
+1
ExDex
F1 Academy
#2190 - 2013-01-18 23:49:32 UTC
post
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2191 - 2013-01-19 00:08:27 UTC
You have GOT to be kidding me.

POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is?

What was more important than fixing poses?
What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses?
What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix?

"Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2

That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es.

You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing.
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
Out of the Blue.
#2192 - 2013-01-19 00:11:05 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
It is good to hear that all of you are so heavily invested in the game, and specifically in things that need an overhaul. You guys still have passion for EVE and that in turn makes me more passionate for what I do here. Furthermore, it would appear that Two step, albeit being present at the CSM summit, seems to have misinterpreted what has been stated so far. That said, I want to bring three quotes from the CSM meeting minutes to your attention:

From page 15:

"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "

From page 99:

"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"

"Seagull: The reason there's a “no” to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."

Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE

I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.


your quoting irrelevant stuff.

CCP Unifex. (Page 37)

It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes.

CCP Soundwave (Page 38)

On top of that, Soundwave added, the POS system by itself would only affect a small portion of the community.

The objections are to those. Any defence for them when it is quite clear that a lot of people have vested interests?

Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net
MedinaRegal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2193 - 2013-01-19 00:14:05 UTC
Come on CCP.

You can't spend eternity trying to resist modernity. This is how you create bittervets.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#2194 - 2013-01-19 00:14:25 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
You have GOT to be kidding me.

POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is?

What was more important than fixing poses?
What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses?
What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix?

"Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2

That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es.

You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing.

Well.. I think that limited engagement feature was actually meant for Retribution and just didn't get done in time... so I don't think it was developed at the expense of POS's explicitly. I'm not sure that CCP even has firm plans yet for the summer. From the minutes it looks like there is no plan whatsoever.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2195 - 2013-01-19 00:16:22 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
You have GOT to be kidding me.

POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is?

What was more important than fixing poses?
What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses?
What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix?

"Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2

That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es.

You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing.

Well.. I think that limited engagement feature was actually meant for Retribution and just didn't get done in time... so I don't think it was developed at the expense of POS's explicitly. I'm not sure that CCP even has firm plans yet for the summer. From the minutes it looks like there is no plan whatsoever.


The POS rebalance has been many years overdue, and we were actually promised it a year ago, so development into limited engagements, while perhaps not drawing exclusively away from POS revamping, did directly draw away from the resource pool that we were informed what, last december (2011) was going to go towards the pos revamp.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#2196 - 2013-01-19 00:40:19 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
You have GOT to be kidding me.

POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is?

What was more important than fixing poses?
What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses?
What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix?

"Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2

That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es.

You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing.

Well.. I think that limited engagement feature was actually meant for Retribution and just didn't get done in time... so I don't think it was developed at the expense of POS's explicitly. I'm not sure that CCP even has firm plans yet for the summer. From the minutes it looks like there is no plan whatsoever.


The POS rebalance has been many years overdue, and we were actually promised it a year ago, so development into limited engagements, while perhaps not drawing exclusively away from POS revamping, did directly draw away from the resource pool that we were informed what, last december (2011) was going to go towards the pos revamp.

Actually they've been taking about the need for a POS re-write since 2006. Don't get me wrong, I'm on the side of wanting the POS's to get fixed. I'm just saying if the foundation of an argument is shaky the probability of winning decreases. Here's a list of some links to devs talking about modular POS's going back to 2006.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#2197 - 2013-01-19 01:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Not Politically Correct
Steve71342 wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
This is actually a kick at the CSM 7 meeting notes that were recently released, too.

Too many of the vocal CSM 7 members want more stuff to destroy and have no interest in building things. I think this issue would have been pushed if that wasn't true.

Once again, CCP has totally missed the boat. A LOT of people want to build POSes, but, with the current interface, it just doesn't make much sense.

Are the vocal CSMers afraid that a revised POS system would make them harder to kill?

Yes, I read all 113 pages.


more creation means more destruction.


Not exactly what I had in mind, but POSes still need a LOT of work.

Edit 1. As well as many other things. What's irritating here is that CCP is NOT totally ignoring the issue. They are saying they don't have the resources to fix the spaghetti code. Is that our problem? Well yes, in a way. But I see it more as a CCP problem. But they seem to be wasting a lot of time, AS USUAL, on things that no one, except CCP, cares about.
Zandithious
Angry Dragons
Brothers of Tangra
#2198 - 2013-01-19 01:13:34 UTC
Please Fix POSes there is a large section of the community in Low and Null that uses them on a daily basis.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#2199 - 2013-01-19 01:24:54 UTC
I have managed and manage POSes.

I would greatly appreciate it if there was an improvement to the POS system. CCP has often demonstrated that to improve numbers of players partaking of a system, they improve that system - T1 Frigate and Cruiser improvements for instance. While the numbers of POS uses are small at present, anyone who has used a POS knows it is a pain in the tush to set them up and manage. Fuel Blocks simplified fueling - that was great. But right now I feel like I have a junk yard floating in a soap bubble around a moon.

I want something closer to a station in space, something that I and fellow corp mates could even dock in - perhaps Incarna's vision of players interacting out of pod can at least be realized in a small environment like a POS? But I digress: A modular system would be great to have. I want something that looks neat and clean. Something where I don't have to manually move minerals from X module to Y module to manufacture or invent something.

Give me a mini-station, that is really what I am looking for.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#2200 - 2013-01-19 01:27:01 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
+1 do something about this.

1. They should be more logical - for example common storage space.
2. Have more DPS - be able to take at least one capital during a reinforce phase ( if someone is stupid )
3. Be more customizable
4. Pos shield could be an additional module - vary in size ... and fuel consumption
5. Have different base setups:
- industry pos 1 reinforce but no major ship storage
- "home pos" large ship storage ... but no industry capability ( multiple reinforce timers ... yes sometimes you want to get 3 days off from the game)
- military instalation High damage, high defence - JB, Cyno Jammers etc ... no industry or big ship storage, but large shield .



yes and no...
You wrote:
"home pos" large ship storage ... but no industry capability ( multiple reinforce timers ... yes sometimes you want to get 3 days off from the game)

However, I personally build stuff in my garage or basement all the time, i do little projects here and there plus I have tools, some people even have a home office, so simply saying "no industry" would have me and others like me simply living in a regular station since we'd have to go there to do any work anyway...
I don't disagree with different sizes of POSes as that might determine how many items can be connected to it (IE. Modular) but the whole idea behind it being modular is to allow folks to customize their POS into their vision and that which would make it useful to them.
in a sense we already have what you've suggested due to power and CPU limitations in the current system of small med and large/standard sized POSes all it would need is some permissions cleanup and a few smaller tweaks

just saying.

o/
Celly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.