EVE General Discussion

I have an awsome new idea.

Let Tactical S ammo destroy PI infrascture you find belonging to the war declared corp. May need a special locking module that makes you suck in space combat but allows targeting of buildings on the ground at least.

Small scale destruction, little time investment, no need for a dreadnaught, and maybe a new mechanic needed to prevent 'scutteling' of a colony if threatened.

I would say things like your idea, not allowing a single person to form a corp, and limitting the ability to do advanced manufacturing in NPC stations would go a long way to giving people an incentive to fight or get people to fight for them.

I also feel CCP needs to engage in a kind of information campaign.
I have a feeling that if CCP pulled the data, what they'll see is an overabundance of really small corportations; especially in high sec.

I feel that the level of safety in high sec has lead to a community of individuals, who aren't constantly beset by danger, to feel secure within the confines of just there small group. Null groups ally themeselves with many other groups in an effort to secure their space, and make it safe, and that isn't needed in high sec. So you end up with a bunch of smaller corporation who don't feel any real need to work within a larger group, let alone organize.

It very telling when someone says that they're getting wardecced by much smaller groups, and that that smaller group is able to actually disrupt their activites. That is nothing more than disorganization. There are no mechanics that a small group has access to that a larger does not, that would give that smaller group the ability to do that to a larger one.

It's player inflicted.
They're not organized, they're not growing within their own group, and they're not working with a larger number of other groups.

There's nothing wrong with that though. If that's how they want to play in high sec then more power to them, but the idea that CCP should do something to prop that up is just awful and that's what a lot of this boils down to.


There's a lot of people in high sec that don't want to put in the same kind of effort to develop their corporation and alliance that people in null do, and then want CCP to do things to make it "fair". They won't just say, "I don't want to grow my corp" or, "I don't wan to work in a larger alliance" they complain that there's something wrong with the mechanics, and CCP should change them because they don't really support their desire to play the way they do.


CCP needs to start campaign of perception.
Start reinforcing the idea that high sec corporations and alliance have as much a need to grow into larger, more powerful entitities, and that there is safety in numbers.

Safety in numbers.
CCP needs to start drilling this into the minds of every EVE player.
Just because you're in high sec doesn't mean you have less of a need to grow.

There's no reason for null sec corporations and alliances to be the only place were large groups form, when we have the least amount of characters overall. Hundred of thousands of high sec charcters, and not one alliance has grown to the scale of a GSF or TEST.

Who is a larger high sec group going to war with in high sec, if not a bunch of smaller groups. If I'm a larger group in high sec, and I don't have any other large groups around me to go to war with, I'm going to declare war on as many small groups as I can so that I hopefully have war targets for my members to shoot at.

High sec should be all about industrial warfare, but high sec industrial corps don't seem to feel that they have any reason to grow into larger groups.

Afterall, I'm not forming a high sec industry corp to actually build something of value. I start a high sec industry corp for me and my 6 other accounts so that I can avoid taxes, and when someone declares war on me, I drop my corp and form a new one. It's not like I have anyone but my own acounts to consider, so it really doesn't matter.

That needs to end.



Am I the only one that noticed that no one from high sec is even bothering to offer ideas on ways to improve the situation, they're just saying remove it or change it so that it's concensual. And there are a couple of null guys who are actually making suggestion, but no one really wants to talk about sensible ways to improve things.

It's just easier to say remove it. (which happend to be one of Solomons points. If they wanted to go the easy route and fix the problem, they would just remove wardecs from high sec. It was the same point Soundwave tired to make in regards to ganking a couple of months ago; if they wanted to do the easy thing, they would just flip the switch and turn off pvp in high sec.

But they're not interested in the "easy" solution, they want EVE solutions.)

I cannot believe that I actually agree with you.

One of the major drawbacks of the EVE system is NPC corps and that alliances can easily outsource all of their vital logistics to them. With only a few "soft targets" left, asymmetrical warfare has become very hard, thus putting smaller corps at a disadvantage.

You mention a lot of really good points. Im sure the hardcore player base will still find a fight no matter how much the war dec system is tweaked.

Well, I am mostly highsec now and I did make suggestions.

But yeah, I have the feeling that I might be about the only highsec character in this thread. I guess all the others are in F&I right now and threaten Fozzie to cancel all of their accounts if he dares to lay hand on the Drake :P

My idea of an awesome EVE:

A high sec with large industrial blocks. In the way that null has formed for the purpose of securing space, I'd love to see high sec develop that same kind of industrial entities that work for control of high sec industry.

I want to see high sec engage in massive wars, all revolving around industrial blocks trying to disrupt the activities of other industrial blocks.

Even right now, with imperfect tools, you have the ability to enforce your will on entire markets.


Who are the high sec equivilents of an -A-, TEST, GSF, RAZOR, Solar?


Well...
The largest corporations in EVE are in control, and they aren't player run.

As long as the NPC corporations have the ability to control high sec, player run corporations will never be able to do what CCP has given us the tools to do. There effect is felt much less in null, but it still effects even us.

The NPC corporation is much more detrimental to the health and growth of the high sec industrial corporation. The NPC corporations leave no incentive to grow and fight for what you have.

If you refuse to undock because you are afriad to lose something, you're playing EVE wrong. Your stuff is designed to be blown up, and nothing in EVE can't be replaced; stop being afraid of losing things.


To "fix" high sec, you need to make things a little more difficult for the OLDER player. After several months in EVE you should have enough undertanding of EVE that you can break away from the NPC corps and be fine. If you want to do the more advanced stuff, like T2 production and mid level refining, you should have to join a player run corporation.

The guys that want to fly around high sec and just shoot little red crosses should be able to stay in the NPC corps. They should also actually pay something significant -the tax increase was trivial, and everyone playing EVE knows that-. Decreaesd payout on rats, and higher level missions would have an effect on the people who have learned how to play EVE, while not impacting the NEW player.

If an increased tax had an impact on the new guy then I wouldn't have a problem with a very slight increae in level one and two mission payouts, but only enough that it negates the effect of an increased tax.



Everyone that wanted to stay in the NPC corps would be able to do so, but your impact would be much less. The impact that they have is to large, it's having to great an impact on the way that the game is played outside of them.

Once upon a time I was very much apposed to any kind of NPC corporation changes. After having experienced the wider game I've come to realize that they are very much having a large, negative, impact on the game.

I started in '05. Goonwaffe is the fist and only corporation that I have ever joined, and I've been in Goonwaffe for like a year. I didn't play for 6 years straight. It was a few months out of each year. It wasn't until I joined a player run corporation that I got stuck on EVE.

Goonwaffe literally save my EVE life.

I see the value of the player run corporation as being the biggest asset that CCP pocesses. The NPC corporations are a detriment to that asset, and the number one reason that high sec warfare fails so miserably.

We could also nerf npc corps with some more immersive and lore-compatible nastiness.

A big corporation isn't going to be just a hostel for broke capsuleers- they want something in return.
So, as long as you are a member of an npc corp, you are supposed to work for them, too.
This work happens offline, while you are not playing eve we can suppose that your character is doing jobs for his npc megacorp.

In game effect (the funny part): each time you log back in, your character will be in a different, randomly selected station belonging to your corp. This is just the last place where he dropped off after doing his errands. And yes, with random station I mean "including stations in low sec".

Sure, to fight or not to fight is 100% your choice, and no matter how you decide, you will have to live with the consequences.
But when newbies are taught never to undock during a war and to shun every kind of risk, it's no longer yourself you are hurting- you are hurting all of EVE.

The ONLY thing that comes from fighting when you are war dec'ed, is more war decs. There is no incentive that you could give that would make carebears want to fight.

Instead, a war dec comes in, we issue the standard order that no one is to undock in ANYTHING larger than a shuttle or cov ops. log in, throw a skill into queue, log out.

Boring the war dec'ers is the ONLY way to limit the number of war decs.


I don't see how the current system, where people go weeks without undocking, is a benefit to anyone.

I agree, I wasn't really saying you shouldn't care about your loss.

Some people care "to much". Some people will not undock because they simply don't want to lose the ship they fly to shoot a red cross.

Minimizing your losses is a tactic to achieve a level of success, minimizing your loss because you "affraid" to lose your ship is playing EVE wrong. There's far to much of the later.


If we were playing lineage 2 I would say those same people are correct in feeling that way; especially if it was the L2 I played for 2 years straight. Losing a 100 million fit PvE ship is not the same thing as losing a set of B grade gear in the original Lineage 2.

Once you've reached the point were you can afford to fly a ship like that, you should have reached the point that you can afford to replace it as well. Most things in EVE are easily reobtainable.

An indy mining corp that doesn't undock to protect it's exhumers is playing smart. Not being willing to jump into a crappy firgate and a spare clone to shoot the guys that wont let you mine is silly. It's better than sitting in a station and crying that you can't do anything.

If you can't afford to blow a million isk on some crap fit frigates, then you're not a very good industrialist. A new player I understand, but those guys can always go back to the NPC corp in the meantime so they can earn money. Someone who's flying aroun din a machinaw or an orca has no excuse.

Not liking PvP is fine, I don't do any PvP; I never have, but no one is right in complaining that they might have to engage in a little when they play a game like EVE.

We are not playing a PvE centric game, and no one started EVE thinking they were. We all CHOOSE to play a game explicity built around PvP.