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CSM minutes on FW
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ground ctrl
Goose Swarm Coalition
#21 - 2013-01-17 03:41:44 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
ground ctrl wrote:
Sorry Veshta I am not sure what you think I misunderstood....

SW's comment is smack in the middle of some back'n'forth on the topic and consensus (which is against him) is a very hard thing to shake.
Just the idea of auto-run timers will have a huge impact on the farm aspect and it would let both sides of the argument 'win' by letting farmers be farmers but without the mad advantage that current timers gives them .. comes down to not having the war in its entirety controlled by people with no actual interest in said war.

Would love for LP to be shifted to pew but it is a hard nut to crack, have suggested it be a modifier applied on plex grid to limit abuse, but even I know it will not prevent it completely so I can understand CCP hesitation on the matter.



I reread and think I know what you mean now. Hans and a few others on the csm were pushing for all sides to get the most lp per pvp kill. Personally I think that will have a de minimis effect on making plexing a pvp game. Generally the farmers are in such cheap fits that giving a few more lp per kill won't change much at all.

My point is that in this discussion SW pointed out that most people who are plexing are not looking for good fights. Everyone seemed to agree - or at least did not contest that point. And no one suggested that should change. No one suggested that the mechanics should make it such that when people go into plexes they should expect to be pvping.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#22 - 2013-01-17 04:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
IbanezLaney wrote:


EDIT:
I thought LP for plexing was a great idea at 1st. It let us make some isk in FW without being mission runners.

I was wrong - LP needs to go. All of it. If you can't make isk elsewhere in eve then you fail and should quit the game altogether.

LP for plexng is great. Allows us to stay on station and available for fights almost all of the time now instead of 50% of the time or less.

Your concern, I think, has more to do with the Tier system that amplifies LP payouts.

Edit: The other thing is that no matter what you do, farmers are gonna farm. I'd rather live with the farmers and be able to stay on station 99% of the time than nuke them all and have to run missions to make isk.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#23 - 2013-01-17 04:19:43 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
meh

Blah blah blah Lets all pretend we are game designers and know how to 'fix' this awesome game we play!

F*** off ppl!


whiners.....GTFO and go play something else.

You are all accusing the CSM of doing stuff that you are currently doing. trying to make the game better for themselves.

FW is not EVE. It is a small part of it. Changes to FW affect other areas of eve and whjat YOU think may make it better balanced may in actual fact completely screw over other who play in a different area.

PVP needs to be an isk SINK or the game economy will eventually collapse under it's own weight. Sov warfare needs to be a PVE activity 'driven' by players. Despite eve being a large population server 50K people is not an aweful lot to have a very small portion of those have direct control of a sizable area of space. If FW WZC became a totally pvp based activety them it would turn into a watch the timers/structure bash to prevent the WZC from flipping 2-3 times a day.

Wait and see how the null changes affect the game as these will no doubt have a big impact on the future of how FW WZC evolves.

And apart from that it looks like FW has had it's shot for the enxt few years so I guess if you don't like it then just leave and stop pollution the forums with yet more I'm a cry baby and can't adapt to change posts!

Seriously are you all 10 year olds or something? Actually my ten year old has better ability to deal with sh!t than most of the posters on the gripenet that Warfare & Tactics has become!!


Chill Dude. You are the one acting like a child here.

We are discussing a topic about eve on the eve forums. Just because you don't like what we have to say doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it.

We have every right to discuss our wishes for fw to be more pvp focused - just because it will hurt your 'cloaky stabby farm' doesn't mean we can not discuss it.


https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#24 - 2013-01-17 04:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
X Gallentius wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:


EDIT:
I thought LP for plexing was a great idea at 1st. It let us make some isk in FW without being mission runners.

I was wrong - LP needs to go. All of it. If you can't make isk elsewhere in eve then you fail and should quit the game altogether.

LP for plexixng is great. Allows us to stay on station and available for fights almost all of the time now instead of 50% of the time or less.

Your concern, I think, has more to do with the Tier system that amplifies LP payouts.


Yeah that's a good point X Gal. The Tier system does amplify the issue.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#25 - 2013-01-17 07:49:06 UTC
Current FW is worst version of FW ever.

It do have some nice improvements but basics on system control and rewards are not generating fight for systems.

Caldari do have taken back some systems from area where no one normally play FW but that does not make it working FW.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#26 - 2013-01-17 10:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Taoist Dragon
IbanezLaney wrote:


We have every right to discuss our wishes for fw to be more pvp focused - just because it will hurt your 'cloaky stabby farm' doesn't mean we can not discuss it.





Since when are the discussions on here rational and not filled with all sorts of whiney crap?

As for my 'cloaky stabby farm' WTF are you on dude! I have never flown such ships and would never fly such ships....I enjoy getting blown up way too much. Twisted


The issue I have with these FW threads is that they way too often are certain posters constantly whine posting about how FW is 'not this' or 'not that' and very little actually content or ideas are expressed. And on the few threads that there is an actual proposal put forward as soon as someone replies with a counter argument or questions the reason why the proposal was put forward they original idea proponent simply reverts to whine and **** posting rather than giving substantive arguments as to why their proposal has issues.


post your ideas by all means but take any constructive criticism for what it's meant to do - help refine your idea into something that would actually work. If you receive blatant criticism then just ignore it and become a whiney 12yr old. If your ideas have merit people will say so (maybe with just a little ribbing Roll ) and you will gain way more respect than just constant s**T posting.

EDIT: I have re-read my post above and yes it is a frustration post and I apologise as it is very much against my character to do so. I do however stand by my comments on sov war needing to be a PVE mechanic and that pvp is required to be an isk sink for the good of the eve economy as a whole....

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-01-17 13:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Squatdog
ground ctrl wrote:
Squatdog wrote:
The minutes seemed to completely miss the single most jarring imbalance in Faction Warfare ie: the 'losing' side getting punished with a 50% LP reduction (while the 'winning' side gets an easily achievable +150% bonus from T4).

This means that players will simply leave the 'losing' side or be discouraged from joining in the first place, while all the farmers and gankbears will flock to the 'winning' side for free LP and cheap ganks.

If anything, T1 should be the default, or at most a trival penalty



To be fair they really didn't have the data on this. They still weren't sure if people would choose more money instead of less money.

It appears they were interpretting the people going to gallente and leaving caldari as evidence that the losing side could attract players. The problem with that analysis was that Caldari was losing as of October 22nd patch so the data actually showed the opposite of what they thought.

They also interpretted the farmers leaving minmatar en mass as some sort of proof that there was sufficient balance. Like I said when you look at the data now its pretty clear people are in fact choosing to play for the winning side - other than null sec alliances that figure they can swing the war with their own weight.


It really makes you wonder when CCP can wildly misinterpret these kind of statistics when the actual situation has been glaringly obvious for a while now.

The reason why Caldari Militia has always been over-represented is that the Caldari is by far the most selected race on character creation and Eve's primary trade hub of Jita is in Caldari highsec, with the wilds of Lowsec only four jumps away. The majority of the excess are players who contribute nothing to Faction Warfare after joining on a whim.

The recent 'balancing' involved PVP players and alliances leaving Caldari en masse, while farmers and gankbears flocked to Gallente. As predicted on these forums.


Quote:
They didn't think of it because no one that takes part in the discussion/meetings there has been our side and had to deal with Tier1.

Wouldn't even have registered to them.

EDIT:
I thought LP for plexing was a great idea at 1st. It let us make some isk in FW without being mission runners.

I was wrong - LP needs to go. All of it. If you can't make isk elsewhere in eve then you fail and should quit the game altogether.


The other major issue is that only one side of Faction Warfare has been represented by the CSM and developers.

Any attempt to draw attention to the problems on Eve forums is always going to by muddied by the rampant lying and trolling of people with a vested interest in maintaining a status quo that favours them:

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...the current system is FINE! LOL! You dumb noobs just need to learn how to play! LOL! Thanks again CCP! LOL!"
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#28 - 2013-01-17 14:20:24 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:

It's either pvp or pve, decide and stick to one - stop changing what you think FW and plexes should be every 2nd week.


It's an hybrid, as most of EvE gameplay. The blunt distrinction PvP/PvE used to work in themepark games doesn't work in EvE where anything is connected in a shared echosystem and where any kind of activity is directly or indirectly related to player competition/interaction.

Conflicting against other players to control/destroy/steal/deny a resource IS PvP gameplay, regardless if some ship explode in the process.
Then one can say "it's not the kind of PvP I like, I want more instant gratificating duels/arenas and consequenceless fight", that's fine. But is only a personal preference and not something proper to the EvE nature and settings.



ground ctrl
Goose Swarm Coalition
#29 - 2013-01-17 15:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: ground ctrl
Sura Sadiva wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:

It's either pvp or pve, decide and stick to one - stop changing what you think FW and plexes should be every 2nd week.


It's an hybrid, as most of EvE gameplay. The blunt distrinction PvP/PvE used to work in themepark games doesn't work in EvE where anything is connected in a shared echosystem and where any kind of activity is directly or indirectly related to player competition/interaction.

Conflicting against other players to control/destroy/steal/deny a resource IS PvP gameplay, regardless if some ship explode in the process.
Then one can say "it's not the kind of PvP I like, I want more instant gratificating duels/arenas and consequenceless fight", that's fine. But is only a personal preference and not something proper to the EvE nature and settings.






Some people call just about anything pvp "market pvp" etc. But as far as actual pvp as in players in ships trying to blow up other players in ships, winning faction war has little to do with this.

I think faction war is best described as "a pvp pve race." Its players competing against other players to see which side can do more pve. Which militia can get more rabbits hiding in plexes orbitting buttons wins.

Thats fine if people like that but there are many people who would like a war that yields frequent quality pvp. Not "pvp pve." There I hope that makes sense. Lol Bottom line on this if the players werent *hiding* in plexes but instead fighting other players in plexes it would be a pvp game.

So how can we make it so they can't hide in plexes?

@taoist: XG and Zarnak constantly start the name calling and insults to anyone who disagrees with their view that fw is is wonderfull. I think we have all come to expect that from them. Don't add your name to the ledger. Stick to the points made about the game. You (and xg and zarnak for that matter) make good posts when you do that.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#30 - 2013-01-17 15:28:14 UTC
ground ctrl wrote:
@taoist: XG and Zarnak constantly start the name calling and insults to anyone who disagrees with their view that fw is is wonderfull. I think we have all come to expect that from them. Don't add your name to the ledger. Stick to the points made about the game. You (and xg and zarnak for that matter) make good posts when you do that.

We actually respect opinions of those who actually log in and play the game. So, no we don't respect your opinion.
ground ctrl
Goose Swarm Coalition
#31 - 2013-01-17 16:02:12 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
ground ctrl wrote:
@taoist: XG and Zarnak constantly start the name calling and insults to anyone who disagrees with their view that fw is is wonderfull. I think we have all come to expect that from them. Don't add your name to the ledger. Stick to the points made about the game. You (and xg and zarnak for that matter) make good posts when you do that.

We actually respect opinions of those who actually log in and play the game. So, no we don't respect your opinion.


I have logged in and played the game. You know it because you already apologized, for your mistake in saying I don't log in. It seems you are so concerned about your conclusions that you are now willing to flat out lie. Roll
Enaya Wendos
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-01-17 17:53:20 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:

If you don't like it leave.


Taoist Dragon wrote:

meh

Blah blah blah Lets all pretend we are game designers and know how to 'fix' this awesome game we play!

F*** off ppl!


whiners.....GTFO and go play something else.


Taoist Dragon wrote:

simply reverts to whine and **** posting


Taoist Dragon wrote:

I am all for expressing opinions and giving good arguments for these opinions (it's a hobby of mine!).


No offence but did you recently take a break from this hobby, or perhaps just having an off day?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#33 - 2013-01-17 18:05:06 UTC
ground ctrl wrote:
I have logged in and played the game. You know it because you already apologized, for your mistake in saying I don't log in. It seems you are so concerned about your conclusions that you are now willing to flat out lie. Roll

You log in so much that you use an alt to post on forums because your main has been unsubscribed. Well done. I did see the 46 kills in December on your main. For that +1.

You want fights? Done. Go to highly populated system and get fights. Proven.
You want occupancy warfare? Done. The mechanic is there - almost completely like YOU PERSONALLY have always wanted it with the exception of one tiny rat that can easily be killed.
You want fights + occupancy warfare? Done. Go to a highly populated system and take plexes.

Your completely self-serving opinion that the "spiking tier" system is better is just that - self serving. It was a way for you to be gauranteed to make massive amoutns of isk. That occupancy map did not reflect reality "on the ground". The current one does a much better job of that. You were only interested in making massive amounts of isk from the spiking system, not a map that reflected the reality of the war effort.

You have NEVER been able to respond to the following fact: No mechanic CCP creates can be 100% pvp-centric if one side refuses to fight. Your suggestions on how to improve FW have NEVER answered this point because they can't. No mechanic can, and yet that is what you require from FW to be happy.

So please, lower your expectations or go find another game. CCP is pretty much done with FW with the exception of some tweaks here and there - and FW is in decent shape. Well done CCP. Farmers are "noise" on the system. In Inferno that noise was huge. Now it is smaller. We can argue whether or not it needs to go down more, but this is a tweak to the system, not an indictment of it.

Caldari lost all their systems not because of anything other than Gallente have the numbers and better coordination amongst our corporations and alliances. It has been this way for four years and running. The addition of an 800 man alliance has been enough for them to win some systems back, but we will see if it is enough for them to get to a higher tier. Probably so. Maybe not. It's going to be fun to see what happens.

Amarr, were in the same boat as Caldari, but have pulled themselves together and have made a fight of it.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2013-01-17 18:23:14 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
meh

Blah blah blah Lets all pretend we are game designers and know how to 'fix' this awesome game we play!

F*** off ppl!


whiners.....GTFO and go play something else.

You are all accusing the CSM of doing stuff that you are currently doing. trying to make the game better for themselves.

FW is not EVE. It is a small part of it. Changes to FW affect other areas of eve and whjat YOU think may make it better balanced may in actual fact completely screw over other who play in a different area.

PVP needs to be an isk SINK or the game economy will eventually collapse under it's own weight. Sov warfare needs to be a PVE activity 'driven' by players. Despite eve being a large population server 50K people is not an aweful lot to have a very small portion of those have direct control of a sizable area of space. If FW WZC became a totally pvp based activety them it would turn into a watch the timers/structure bash to prevent the WZC from flipping 2-3 times a day.

Wait and see how the null changes affect the game as these will no doubt have a big impact on the future of how FW WZC evolves.

And apart from that it looks like FW has had it's shot for the enxt few years so I guess if you don't like it then just leave and stop pollution the forums with yet more I'm a cry baby and can't adapt to change posts!

Seriously are you all 10 year olds or something? Actually my ten year old has better ability to deal with sh!t than most of the posters on the gripenet that Warfare & Tactics has become!!



Pvp isn't an isk sink..

Insurance actually pumps isk into the system... pvp is a mineral sink...

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#35 - 2013-01-17 19:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Tuggles
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Item #1 is misunderstood on your part.

They actually picked up on what we (me, me, me, me, and that other guy) have been yelling since LP was thrown at everything .. that more LP should come from pew by incentivizing pew MOAR!

CCP is of same mind but afraid that the "Ma Wallet" crowd will throw a fit so want to go slow on that count.

Quote:
Soundwave responded that he didn’t think people inherently choose the most profitable thing, they
choose the best thing they can do that fits their play-style. People running the complexes aren't usually
looking for a good fight.

Good to see that SW is on the ball and can see that farmers are farmers with the right to stab the hell out of their ships .. now if only he could be made to see that the very same right should bar them from having any impact on anything other than their wallets Big smile

All in all, the minutes gave me the impression that Fozzie is a lot more attuned to the goings on than any of the other participants. What tickled me the most was the mention that FW should be "a thing to do in low-sec' and not the definition of low-sec, gives me hope that they are brain-storming options for a LS revamp (THAR BE PIRATES!) which has been sought by just about everyone of note the past 5-6 years.



If you give higher LP reward for ship kills you will just have people farming 1 day old alts in t1 frigs all day.



Actually..... anyone know what the LP payout on a rookie ship is?
ground ctrl
Goose Swarm Coalition
#36 - 2013-01-17 20:22:57 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
ground ctrl wrote:
I have logged in and played the game. You know it because you already apologized, for your mistake in saying I don't log in. It seems you are so concerned about your conclusions that you are now willing to flat out lie. Roll

You log in so much that you use an alt to post on forums because your main has been unsubscribed. Well done. I did see the 46 kills in December on your main. For that +1.

You want fights? Done. Go to highly populated system and get fights. Proven.
You want occupancy warfare? Done. The mechanic is there - almost completely like YOU PERSONALLY have always wanted it with the exception of one tiny rat that can easily be killed.
You want fights + occupancy warfare? Done. Go to a highly populated system and take plexes.


When did I ever say the only thing i wanted was for them to address the npcs. The problem with plexing is now and always has been hide and seek plexers. The answer is a notification system so they can no longer hide. Plenty of people have expressed their view that decent pvp in fw happens too rarely and that plexing is just farming.

X Gallentius wrote:

Your completely self-serving opinion that the "spiking tier" system is better is just that - self serving. It was a way for you to be gauranteed to make massive amoutns of isk. That occupancy map did not reflect reality "on the ground". The current one does a much better job of that. You were only interested in making massive amounts of isk from the spiking system, not a map that reflected the reality of the war effort.


So I see you still refuse to read the reasons I gave for prefering the cashout system. And you can't just compare the reality now to the reality when the cashout system was in place because there were other huge changes including ccps end to farming by requiring all rats to be killed. Even though the minmatar had that huge farming community Amarr has never been as financially on par with minmatar since the tier 4 cashout. Even by hitting tier 4 cashouts, which we can definitely do now that farming was nerfed, we would be on more of an even economic footing.

Again look at the reasons I gave for prefering the cashout system.

And to say its self serving to have a system with economic balance is ridiculous. Everyone in faction war should hope that the system is not lopsided.


X Gallentius wrote:

You have NEVER been able to respond to the following fact: No mechanic CCP creates can be 100% pvp-centric if one side refuses to fight. Your suggestions on how to improve FW have NEVER answered this point because they can't. No mechanic can, and yet that is what you require from FW to be happy.



I believe lots of people in eve want fights. You may think no one wants to fight but that is very hard to beleive. The fact is it just takes a long time to find people who want to fight. People get discouraged because 1) plexers currently can hide and plex so 2) plexers do hide and plex and when found warp off and go hide somewhere else and plex. If we eliminated the hiding then that would end this. People who entered plexes would know they will get fights. The game would change in a big way.

I will spend 2 hours flying around to the busiest wartarget systems and sometimes not get a single fight. I know very well that there are other minmatar would love to fight but its a matter of us both wandering around and running into us. I also know that if plexing was a reliable way to get frequent quality pvp more and more likeminded players would join. It would become a bloodbath and people would be spending every isk they earn from that lp.

X Gallentius wrote:


So please, lower your expectations or go find another game. CCP is pretty much done with FW with the exception of some tweaks here and there - and FW is in decent shape. Well done CCP. Farmers are "noise" on the system. In Inferno that noise was huge. Now it is smaller. We can argue whether or not it needs to go down more, but this is a tweak to the system, not an indictment of it.

Caldari lost all their systems not because of anything other than Gallente have the numbers and better coordination amongst our corporations and alliances. It has been this way for four years and running. The addition of an 800 man alliance has been enough for them to win some systems back, but we will see if it is enough for them to get to a higher tier. Probably so. Maybe not. It's going to be fun to see what happens.

Amarr, were in the same boat as Caldari, but have pulled themselves together and have made a fight of it.



If amarr wants to win the sov war the answer is to do what DCM, sasawong, and Cynthia Nezmor are doing. Get their alts orbiting buttons in backwater systems. That may be interesting to you, but its not for me.


X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#37 - 2013-01-17 20:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
you wrote:
The fact is it just takes a long time to find people who want to fight.


I wrote:
You want fights? Done. Go to highly populated system and get fights. Proven.


Solution: You should leave Eve Online and find some other game to play.
ground ctrl
Goose Swarm Coalition
#38 - 2013-01-17 21:25:17 UTC
Mister Tuggles wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Item #1 is misunderstood on your part.

They actually picked up on what we (me, me, me, me, and that other guy) have been yelling since LP was thrown at everything .. that more LP should come from pew by incentivizing pew MOAR!

CCP is of same mind but afraid that the "Ma Wallet" crowd will throw a fit so want to go slow on that count.

Quote:
Soundwave responded that he didn’t think people inherently choose the most profitable thing, they
choose the best thing they can do that fits their play-style. People running the complexes aren't usually
looking for a good fight.

Good to see that SW is on the ball and can see that farmers are farmers with the right to stab the hell out of their ships .. now if only he could be made to see that the very same right should bar them from having any impact on anything other than their wallets Big smile

All in all, the minutes gave me the impression that Fozzie is a lot more attuned to the goings on than any of the other participants. What tickled me the most was the mention that FW should be "a thing to do in low-sec' and not the definition of low-sec, gives me hope that they are brain-storming options for a LS revamp (THAR BE PIRATES!) which has been sought by just about everyone of note the past 5-6 years.



If you give higher LP reward for ship kills you will just have people farming 1 day old alts in t1 frigs all day.



Actually..... anyone know what the LP payout on a rookie ship is?



They give lp for ship kills now but it is typically not enough to justify the amount of loss. (but see the goon exploit early on) I don't think any lp would be given for a rookie ship unless it had some expensive cargo or mods.

Right now the tier level your militia is at effects how much lp you get from these pvp kills. They were saying that everyone should always get the most lp allowed that would not be exploitable. I don't think this would really have much of an effect as we don't see more kills on the side that currently gets more lp for pvp.

http://facwarstats.appspot.com/

So boosting the lp per pvp kill is unlikely to change much.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#39 - 2013-01-17 21:59:17 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:


We have every right to discuss our wishes for fw to be more pvp focused - just because it will hurt your 'cloaky stabby farm' doesn't mean we can not discuss it.





Since when are the discussions on here rational and not filled with all sorts of whiney crap?

As for my 'cloaky stabby farm' WTF are you on dude! I have never flown such ships and would never fly such ships....I enjoy getting blown up way too much. Twisted

...

EDIT: I have re-read my post above and yes it is a frustration post and I apologise as it is very much against my character to do so. I do however stand by my comments on sov war needing to be a PVE mechanic and that pvp is required to be an isk sink for the good of the eve economy as a whole....



No hard feelings dude - was just having a dig with the stabby cloaky thing because I was a bit surprised at your post.

You have always done good posts and it did seem out of character which is why I responded back.


I normally only post stupid comments most of the time in misguided attempts to remind people that this is only a game but when the minutes were so barren of any real discussion about major issues - I decided to add my 5 cents worth here.
Every now and then - we are all within our rights as paying subscribers to say what we do or don't like in eve.

+ I understand where you are coming from as there are too many similar thread here atm.
Just seemed the one about CSM minutes was an appropriate one to comment in with what I wanted to say.
Much better than me starting ANOTHER thread to **** up these forums further.

You an aussie ? If you are - Do you go on the Anzac day roams?
aka - The 'if it's not Aussie or Kiwi it dies' fleet.

Last years was fun (but a bit short - damn abaddons)

o/

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-01-18 03:45:40 UTC
cynthia and dcm running alts in backwater systems?

A) aset and isabra are not backwater

B)the reason they have to plex with alts is from the lack of mains on amarr side

i joined them along with others and the aset pocket swong to our side. then alot of mains joined in amd look what happened?

see what stops alts are mains....a system can only hold 2-3 plexers for an hour then they have to move on


so 15-20 mains can plex an area very quickly and stop all farmers from doing anything in a 4-6 system area


you wanna stop alts? get your main to plexing