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You folks might want to read the CSM minutes
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Vince Snetterton
#1 - 2013-01-17 07:50:42 UTC
Starting around page 44.
Given that most manufacturers look at the long run, you might want to make your estimations / extrapolations / plans now.

Losing 100% refine in high sec looks like a dead certainty, and higher higher mfg taxes very likely. (page 44, 45)

When T2 mfg will be removed from high sec is not mentioned in these CSM minutes, but is a pet project of both Soundwave's and Greyscale's, so no real idea when that will happen.
Soundwave: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1230077#post1230077
Greyscale: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=946

The other thing that looks like a very strong possibility is superveld and superscordite for null sec (page 45).
If that happens, it can only drive down trit and pyerite in high sec.
Though I still doubt many null sec players will mine the stuff, so the impact might be small.
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-01-17 11:32:45 UTC
i see it as a progress to industry. Null sec do have to have options to make money and not as combat pilot ratting . Any coalition should have a developed industry in order to supply their combat pilots . And as you refer miners they should get in line with combat pilots on isk/h as it is something many people want for their career.
Overall CSM minutes i saw many things discussed that i do agree especially for industry. As high sec - null sec comparison well the transaction isnt that much dangerous as many people think. Null sec is safe enough once you learn how to live there

Ride hard, live with passion 
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#3 - 2013-01-17 12:53:46 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Starting around page 44.
Given that most manufacturers look at the long run, you might want to make your estimations / extrapolations / plans now.

Losing 100% refine in high sec looks like a dead certainty, and higher higher mfg taxes very likely. (page 44, 45)

When T2 mfg will be removed from high sec is not mentioned in these CSM minutes, but is a pet project of both Soundwave's and Greyscale's, so no real idea when that will happen.
Soundwave: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1230077#post1230077
Greyscale: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=946

The other thing that looks like a very strong possibility is superveld and superscordite for null sec (page 45).
If that happens, it can only drive down trit and pyerite in high sec.
Though I still doubt many null sec players will mine the stuff, so the impact might be small.



Its a good thing imo, Industry endgame should try to aim for the wild edges of space. And i dunno if you have ever tried to build caps in nullsec but do so and then come tell me they wont mine super veld or super scordite please.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#4 - 2013-01-17 14:26:54 UTC
Sounds fantastic. Seriously.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-01-17 15:28:02 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Sounds fantastic. Seriously.


sounds good to me too

now move ice on another system like move it to grav site(need to be scanned and be able to clear a rock) or lower the ammount in high sec + make rocks smaller so it become depletable

moon goo ,ake it so you need to find and mine it(ring mining where is it???!!!! )
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#6 - 2013-01-17 17:07:09 UTC
Who cares if the refine rate is 50% or 1000% percent, it won't change anything. It's going to be the same percentage for everyone so the price will simply settle wherever it settles. Grayscale and Soundwave are complete and total ***************. Read through the CSM minutes, practically every idea they have sucks. Do they even know what this game is or how it is played?
Vince Snetterton
#7 - 2013-01-17 17:40:01 UTC
Toku Jiang wrote:
Who cares if the refine rate is 50% or 1000% percent, it won't change anything. It's going to be the same percentage for everyone so the price will simply settle wherever it settles. Grayscale and Soundwave are complete and total ***************. Read through the CSM minutes, practically every idea they have sucks. Do they even know what this game is or how it is played?


Well, actually the refine rate does matter, based on a few conditions:

1. IF they introduce the superveld and superscordite, and that is still not certain, but seems a probability.
2. IF, and a big IF, the value of the ore is good enough to entice people to actually mine in null. That means null sec miners will have to be making close to 100M / hour, in order to entice them to either add a bot/ afk miner char to their accounts and put it in one of their safe enclaves, or to entice them to switch over a char from running anoms at 100M / hour.

If those two conditions are met, then high sec mining faces a double hit:
1. The price of the low end mins will crash in high since null sec won't be importing trit and pyerite from high.
2. High sec miners will no longer be able to get 100% refine, on whatever product they can extract.

I do think that CCP will bend to the wishes of null and fulfill both conditions. Just read the minutes and see how much they are bending over for the null sec reps of the CSM.

Personally, in the next few months, I am positioning myself to reprocess any items that are meta 3 and lower that I own, and get ready to sell off all the mins that I have. There won't likely be a rush for a few months yet, until more details are leaked out, but I can envision a massive sales rush on high sec mins when more details become available.

In truth, the ONLY thing that CCP should do to level the playing field is to remove the 75% max efficiency cap on POS's and increase ALL station refine to be easily 100% with skills.
That way wormhole and null sec miners have the same conditions as high sec.

And to be perfectly honest, if CCP wipes out high sec NPC station mfg, that will hurt, but is not truly devastating, since the vast, vast majority of all manufacturing slots in high sec are at POS's already.
Now, if they go insane and remove all NPC mfg slots, including low sec, that will be devastating, since cap production will be slammed hard. But null sec does not want their carrier/dread production slowed, so it is unlikely low sec mfg slots will be touched.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#8 - 2013-01-17 18:29:17 UTC
Its hard to predict what they might come up with, but without improving null sec production lines at the station level or improving the way POS structures are handled it will not improve the null sec industry. As it stands producing in a POS requires control over the different arrays there. In a large corp keeping individuals minerals and products seperate is a nightmare, so most often only people with ceratain roles have access to those arrays. It will create a manufacturing bottleneck and drive up the price of everything.
Vince Snetterton
#9 - 2013-01-17 18:43:39 UTC
Toku Jiang wrote:
Its hard to predict what they might come up with, but without improving null sec production lines at the station level or improving the way POS structures are handled it will not improve the null sec industry. As it stands producing in a POS requires control over the different arrays there. In a large corp keeping individuals minerals and products seperate is a nightmare, so most often only people with ceratain roles have access to those arrays. It will create a manufacturing bottleneck and drive up the price of everything.


That problem runs across the all lines of sec space.
A high sec corp has the same trust issues as a null sec corp.

The larger the corp, the higher the risk that mins/items/BPO's will be stolen.

But fundamentally, a null sec corp can just as easily produce items in null as a high sec corp can in high sec.
POS's work the same way, and the most efficient mfg corps do not depend on the vagaries of high sec station slot availability.

The only difference is the refine rate/tax system at stations.
I have stated several times I am all for null sec station refine rates being buffed to create a chance at 100% efficiency.
As for the tax rate at null sec stations, that is entirely a null sec created internal problem.

Given the current game mechanics, and the current blue nap climate in null, manufacturing in null is actually EASIER than high, since the high end mins are so easily accessible in null, and essentially cheaper. (outside of course the already mentioned refining costs).
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-17 19:04:42 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Toku Jiang wrote:
Its hard to predict what they might come up with, but without improving null sec production lines at the station level or improving the way POS structures are handled it will not improve the null sec industry. As it stands producing in a POS requires control over the different arrays there. In a large corp keeping individuals minerals and products seperate is a nightmare, so most often only people with ceratain roles have access to those arrays. It will create a manufacturing bottleneck and drive up the price of everything.


That problem runs across the all lines of sec space.
A high sec corp has the same trust issues as a null sec corp.

The larger the corp, the higher the risk that mins/items/BPO's will be stolen.

But fundamentally, a null sec corp can just as easily produce items in null as a high sec corp can in high sec.
POS's work the same way, and the most efficient mfg corps do not depend on the vagaries of high sec station slot availability.

The only difference is the refine rate/tax system at stations.
I have stated several times I am all for null sec station refine rates being buffed to create a chance at 100% efficiency.
As for the tax rate at null sec stations, that is entirely a null sec created internal problem.

Given the current game mechanics, and the current blue nap climate in null, manufacturing in null is actually EASIER than high, since the high end mins are so easily accessible in null, and essentially cheaper. (outside of course the already mentioned refining costs).


^this

In the deeper rear end of the blueness that is sov null, you don't see hostiles for months on end. It's far safer in null than highsec where every innocent looking neut loitering around the corner can gank you. The only thing preventing industry growth in null is lack of already established market and supply chains.

Frankly, sov null needs to be less safe than highsec, not more, to match its rewards.
Nour Aerilon
Inhumanum Legionis
#11 - 2013-01-17 19:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nour Aerilon
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Its a good thing imo, Industry endgame should try to aim for the wild edges of space.



Sandbox! Endgame is for WoW

Moving T2 to null is probably a bad idea cause big null alliances already control T2 Manufacturing. Giving T2 to null and transfer even more isk out of high is beyond me.
How will smaller Corps going for takeoff ever reach that far with a disadvantage like that? I will only serve to create even more Big nul alliance grunts.

I dont want a linear game. This is hardly a sandbox as it is.
Mark Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-01-17 23:14:11 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Toku Jiang wrote:
Its hard to predict what they might come up with, but without improving null sec production lines at the station level or improving the way POS structures are handled it will not improve the null sec industry. As it stands producing in a POS requires control over the different arrays there. In a large corp keeping individuals minerals and products seperate is a nightmare, so most often only people with ceratain roles have access to those arrays. It will create a manufacturing bottleneck and drive up the price of everything.


That problem runs across the all lines of sec space.
A high sec corp has the same trust issues as a null sec corp.

The larger the corp, the higher the risk that mins/items/BPO's will be stolen.

But fundamentally, a null sec corp can just as easily produce items in null as a high sec corp can in high sec.
POS's work the same way, and the most efficient mfg corps do not depend on the vagaries of high sec station slot availability.

The only difference is the refine rate/tax system at stations.
I have stated several times I am all for null sec station refine rates being buffed to create a chance at 100% efficiency.
As for the tax rate at null sec stations, that is entirely a null sec created internal problem.

Given the current game mechanics, and the current blue nap climate in null, manufacturing in null is actually EASIER than high, since the high end mins are so easily accessible in null, and essentially cheaper. (outside of course the already mentioned refining costs).


^this

In the deeper rear end of the blueness that is sov null, you don't see hostiles for months on end. It's far safer in null than highsec where every innocent looking neut loitering around the corner can gank you. The only thing preventing industry growth in null is lack of already established market and supply chains.

Frankly, sov null needs to be less safe than highsec, not more, to match its rewards.


Have you lived in Null sec? Saying it goes for months on end without seeing a hostile or neut is silly and very untrue. While I will concur that compared to a low sec system that isn't under an alliance control the odds of a random showing up are less. That said those who live out of outposts in sov null are always at risk of getting their assets trapped which isn't a concern for low however, thus creating the higher risk.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-01-17 23:21:14 UTC
Mark Munoz wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Toku Jiang wrote:
Its hard to predict what they might come up with, but without improving null sec production lines at the station level or improving the way POS structures are handled it will not improve the null sec industry. As it stands producing in a POS requires control over the different arrays there. In a large corp keeping individuals minerals and products seperate is a nightmare, so most often only people with ceratain roles have access to those arrays. It will create a manufacturing bottleneck and drive up the price of everything.


That problem runs across the all lines of sec space.
A high sec corp has the same trust issues as a null sec corp.

The larger the corp, the higher the risk that mins/items/BPO's will be stolen.

But fundamentally, a null sec corp can just as easily produce items in null as a high sec corp can in high sec.
POS's work the same way, and the most efficient mfg corps do not depend on the vagaries of high sec station slot availability.

The only difference is the refine rate/tax system at stations.
I have stated several times I am all for null sec station refine rates being buffed to create a chance at 100% efficiency.
As for the tax rate at null sec stations, that is entirely a null sec created internal problem.

Given the current game mechanics, and the current blue nap climate in null, manufacturing in null is actually EASIER than high, since the high end mins are so easily accessible in null, and essentially cheaper. (outside of course the already mentioned refining costs).


^this

In the deeper rear end of the blueness that is sov null, you don't see hostiles for months on end. It's far safer in null than highsec where every innocent looking neut loitering around the corner can gank you. The only thing preventing industry growth in null is lack of already established market and supply chains.

Frankly, sov null needs to be less safe than highsec, not more, to match its rewards.


Have you lived in Null sec? Saying it goes for months on end without seeing a hostile or neut is silly and very untrue. While I will concur that compared to a low sec system that isn't under an alliance control the odds of a random showing up are less. That said those who live out of outposts in sov null are always at risk of getting their assets trapped which isn't a concern for low however, thus creating the higher risk.


Giving the nap train and rate of sov changes these days, the chances of your home outpost changing hands anytime soon are about as big as CCP making Jita lowsec...

And as of safety, I obviously was talking about sov null, not npc null. God forbid a scary neut alt shows up once in a blue moon, everybody docks up.Roll
Mark Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-01-17 23:35:13 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Mark Munoz wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Toku Jiang wrote:
Its hard to predict what they might come up with, but without improving null sec production lines at the station level or improving the way POS structures are handled it will not improve the null sec industry. As it stands producing in a POS requires control over the different arrays there. In a large corp keeping individuals minerals and products seperate is a nightmare, so most often only people with ceratain roles have access to those arrays. It will create a manufacturing bottleneck and drive up the price of everything.


That problem runs across the all lines of sec space.
A high sec corp has the same trust issues as a null sec corp.

The larger the corp, the higher the risk that mins/items/BPO's will be stolen.

But fundamentally, a null sec corp can just as easily produce items in null as a high sec corp can in high sec.
POS's work the same way, and the most efficient mfg corps do not depend on the vagaries of high sec station slot availability.

The only difference is the refine rate/tax system at stations.
I have stated several times I am all for null sec station refine rates being buffed to create a chance at 100% efficiency.
As for the tax rate at null sec stations, that is entirely a null sec created internal problem.

Given the current game mechanics, and the current blue nap climate in null, manufacturing in null is actually EASIER than high, since the high end mins are so easily accessible in null, and essentially cheaper. (outside of course the already mentioned refining costs).


^this

In the deeper rear end of the blueness that is sov null, you don't see hostiles for months on end. It's far safer in null than highsec where every innocent looking neut loitering around the corner can gank you. The only thing preventing industry growth in null is lack of already established market and supply chains.

Frankly, sov null needs to be less safe than highsec, not more, to match its rewards.


Have you lived in Null sec? Saying it goes for months on end without seeing a hostile or neut is silly and very untrue. While I will concur that compared to a low sec system that isn't under an alliance control the odds of a random showing up are less. That said those who live out of outposts in sov null are always at risk of getting their assets trapped which isn't a concern for low however, thus creating the higher risk.


Giving the nap train and rate of sov changes these days, the chances of your home outpost changing hands anytime soon are about as big as CCP making Jita lowsec...

And as of safety, I obviously was talking about sov null, not npc null. God forbid a scary neut alt shows up once in a blue moon, everybody docks up.Roll


Your original post was complaining about neuts now you are saying they pose no risk to sov null? Irregardless in this game if they aren't blue they are hostile. Even if they are blue still be careful. Arguing the relative "safety" of null manu versus high manu is silly though as clearly you are at a greater risk in low and null and wh. There are plenty of things to protect you in high while your protection elsewhere are your comrades and brains. It only stands to reason that the risk vs reward should be put into place.

As far as sov changing hands it happens, usually in only one region at a time but it does. That said do you fault people for creating coalition networks to help protect themselves when thats all there is to protect yourself? Especially when it so easy to have hundreds of hostiles dropped in on a system in a moments notice?
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#15 - 2013-01-18 00:39:58 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Toku Jiang wrote:
Its hard to predict what they might come up with, but without improving null sec production lines at the station level or improving the way POS structures are handled it will not improve the null sec industry. As it stands producing in a POS requires control over the different arrays there. In a large corp keeping individuals minerals and products seperate is a nightmare, so most often only people with ceratain roles have access to those arrays. It will create a manufacturing bottleneck and drive up the price of everything.


That problem runs across the all lines of sec space.
A high sec corp has the same trust issues as a null sec corp.

The larger the corp, the higher the risk that mins/items/BPO's will be stolen.

But fundamentally, a null sec corp can just as easily produce items in null as a high sec corp can in high sec.
POS's work the same way, and the most efficient mfg corps do not depend on the vagaries of high sec station slot availability.

The only difference is the refine rate/tax system at stations.
I have stated several times I am all for null sec station refine rates being buffed to create a chance at 100% efficiency.
As for the tax rate at null sec stations, that is entirely a null sec created internal problem.

Given the current game mechanics, and the current blue nap climate in null, manufacturing in null is actually EASIER than high, since the high end mins are so easily accessible in null, and essentially cheaper. (outside of course the already mentioned refining costs).



Have you ever lived in nullsec? Yes the high end minerals are plenty but the lowends are what is the major problem out here. I can so n90% of the trit and pyer iv built with have come from hauler spawns and those are rare. Building opertunitys are more plenty yes but the lowends are not, And not all of nullsec is easy to access deep null require many gate jumps in a freighter full of trit or pyer and jbs or titan bridges.


Quote:
In the deeper rear end of the blueness that is sov null, you don't see hostiles for months on end. It's far safer in null than highsec where every innocent looking neut loitering around the corner can gank you. The only thing preventing industry growth in null is lack of already established market and supply chains.

Frankly, sov null needs to be less safe than highsec, not more, to match its rewards.


Wrong, come out to deep null and tell me you never see nuets or roaming gang or worse. The thing that makes nullsec safer than highsec is in highsec everyone is a nuet, in nullsec you know whos your freinds and whos not, That doesnt mean you dont see enemys.


Quote:

Giving the nap train and rate of sov changes these days, the chances of your home outpost changing hands anytime soon are about as big as CCP making Jita lowsec...


Have you seen whats heppened in the past 3 months in nullsec? One of the largest alliances and coalitions crumbled, 8+ regions changed hands and are still changing hands,.
Vince Snetterton
#16 - 2013-01-18 00:57:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vince Snetterton
Zetaomega333 wrote:

Have you ever lived in nullsec? Yes the high end minerals are plenty but the lowends are what is the major problem out here. I can so n90% of the trit and pyer iv built with have come from hauler spawns and those are rare. Building opertunitys are more plenty yes but the lowends are not, And not all of nullsec is easy to access deep null require many gate jumps in a freighter full of trit or pyer and jbs or titan bridges.


Errrr...I have lived in wh's for over a year, and used to RUN a null sec corporation's entire T1 ship and T2 module industrial wing.
I know a thing or 2 about null sec indy.

The fact is that mining in null only becomes a pain if you get an afk cloaky, and then it becomes nervewracking wondering when he comes back to keyboard.

Veld and pyerite rocks are enormous in null sec.
And hauler spawns....many times the belt ratters would not tell you about the fact that they popped a 10M trit hauler, and would leave it to pop. If you jumped into a belt, you would the scramble for haulers to grab 100K cu mof pure trit.

To say that low end mins don't exist in null in huge quantities is ludicrous.
Now, in wh space, totally different story. We are always used to cry for trit and pyerite, so little veld and scordite spawns, relative to the other rocks.
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#17 - 2013-01-18 05:04:16 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:

Have you ever lived in nullsec? Yes the high end minerals are plenty but the lowends are what is the major problem out here. I can so n90% of the trit and pyer iv built with have come from hauler spawns and those are rare. Building opertunitys are more plenty yes but the lowends are not, And not all of nullsec is easy to access deep null require many gate jumps in a freighter full of trit or pyer and jbs or titan bridges.


Errrr...I have lived in wh's for over a year, and used to RUN a null sec corporation's entire T1 ship and T2 module industrial wing.
I know a thing or 2 about null sec indy.

The fact is that mining in null only becomes a pain if you get an afk cloaky, and then it becomes nervewracking wondering when he comes back to keyboard.

Veld and pyerite rocks are enormous in null sec.
And hauler spawns....many times the belt ratters would not tell you about the fact that they popped a 10M trit hauler, and would leave it to pop. If you jumped into a belt, you would the scramble for haulers to grab 100K cu mof pure trit.

To say that low end mins don't exist in null in huge quantities is ludicrous.
Now, in wh space, totally different story. We are always used to cry for trit and pyerite, so little veld and scordite spawns, relative to the other rocks.



Your pretty dilusional on whats in the belts out here in nullsec. Whs and nullsec are no where near the same. Saying you ran a nullsec's t1 and t2 production isnt much credibility either. Alot of belt ratters dont pay attention to hauler spawns that is true but the days of getting 100million trit from a set of haulers is gone with the rat randomization where different class's spawn in the belts at the same time. The veld and scord rocks in null may be big but the largest veld rock can be mined out in under 10minutes. The problem is they arnt available enough, Where as in highsec every system is saturated with veld and scordite along with stations. That just isnt true out here, I would have to strip 4 systems worth near were i live to get enough for a dread. You seem to be commenting on living situations that you dont have a clue about.
Vince Snetterton
#18 - 2013-01-18 08:02:10 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:

Have you ever lived in nullsec? Yes the high end minerals are plenty but the lowends are what is the major problem out here. I can so n90% of the trit and pyer iv built with have come from hauler spawns and those are rare. Building opertunitys are more plenty yes but the lowends are not, And not all of nullsec is easy to access deep null require many gate jumps in a freighter full of trit or pyer and jbs or titan bridges.


Errrr...I have lived in wh's for over a year, and used to RUN a null sec corporation's entire T1 ship and T2 module industrial wing.
I know a thing or 2 about null sec indy.

The fact is that mining in null only becomes a pain if you get an afk cloaky, and then it becomes nervewracking wondering when he comes back to keyboard.

Veld and pyerite rocks are enormous in null sec.
And hauler spawns....many times the belt ratters would not tell you about the fact that they popped a 10M trit hauler, and would leave it to pop. If you jumped into a belt, you would the scramble for haulers to grab 100K cu mof pure trit.

To say that low end mins don't exist in null in huge quantities is ludicrous.
Now, in wh space, totally different story. We are always used to cry for trit and pyerite, so little veld and scordite spawns, relative to the other rocks.



Your pretty dilusional on whats in the belts out here in nullsec. Whs and nullsec are no where near the same. Saying you ran a nullsec's t1 and t2 production isnt much credibility either. Alot of belt ratters dont pay attention to hauler spawns that is true but the days of getting 100million trit from a set of haulers is gone with the rat randomization where different class's spawn in the belts at the same time. The veld and scord rocks in null may be big but the largest veld rock can be mined out in under 10minutes. The problem is they arnt available enough, Where as in highsec every system is saturated with veld and scordite along with stations. That just isnt true out here, I would have to strip 4 systems worth near were i live to get enough for a dread. You seem to be commenting on living situations that you dont have a clue about.


I don't know what to tell you.
You and I live in different worlds, that is for sure.
Other that you are making ridiculous statements, which are just plain wrong.

And to say the largest veld rock can be mined in less than 10 minutes is a pretty dumb point.
A tricked out Hulk, with full skills, and boosted by a fully skilled Rorqual, with implants, does about 25,000 Veld/ min.
That means in 10 minutes it mines out 250,000 Veld.
And yeah, there are not many Veld rocks that big if a system is mined consistently.
In fact, outside of wh's, there are not that many that big ANYWHERE in the game.
So guess what, you put your 3 lasers on separate 100K rocks, and come back in 10 minutes. Obviously, you can't do that anymore with the new Hulk.
But the thrust of the argument is the same.
Null has VAST quantities of low sec mins.

And let's examine your statement about needing to strip 4 systems for a Dread.
When I made Moros (yeah, I did that too), I needed a little over 104M trit and a little under 25M pyerite.
If you are going to suggest that a single system, with a dozen belts, does not yield 26M trit and a little more than 6M pyerite, people will lock you away. Unless of course, other people are there before you and you are mining dregs.

And I said 10M trit = 100,000 cu m.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-01-18 08:19:17 UTC
sounds good except for the T2 mfg in low sec part. it would combine the clickfest of inventions and cyno-jumping (unless you want to use gates with a freighter), the two most annoying things in game. Even tho there are still people gona do it, it simply wont be fun anymore.

shar'ra phone home
Dave Stark
#20 - 2013-01-18 10:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Quote:
Taking the issue of refining, Soundwave stated his
belief that there should never be a 100% refine rate, but the closest one could get would be at a fullyupgraded outpost. Hans noted that this could potentially be a disruptable type of activity and argued that
a good refining system should be put in space so people would have to risk something to get the best
refine. Elise countered that making an activity a logistical hassle would deter from the activity itself.


so, unless you're going to start adding more low ends to null sec space, then you're just going to reduce the supply of low ends driving their prices further up, which means more expensive ships and... well, nothing else really.

even then, adding more low ends to null wouldn't really do much, if i'm in null sec i'm not mining veld for 5m/can when i can mine hed/hemo/ark for 7m/can.

edit: that said, this idea needs to happen.
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