These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Can't believe how many CSM/CCP employees want a theme park

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#321 - 2013-01-17 22:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
A war dec in EVE only involves the legal acquisition of someone's sneakers if they leave them on a specific porch. And when the owner of said sneakers can simply put them on and walk away or set them on another porch. Big deal. That is not a war. There is nothing to fight for. No homes. No resources. No schools. No religion. No land. Nothing. There is nothing you can't stuff into a suitcase and walk away. Everything of value can easily be taken to safety without losing value or usefulness.

There needs to be real reasons to fight. There is endless possibilities to give players the tools to build empires. Empires they can from. Empires that can't be quickly tossed into a players pocket and moved. Empires that need to be protected. Empires that are worth undocking and fighting for.

I believe the answer to creating this lies in the possibilities of not thinking about how a POS revamp can make a POS better, but how a revamp opens the door to creating far more than something dangling off a moon mining.
Stalker ofeveryone
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#322 - 2013-01-17 22:59:48 UTC
It's OK, we're already burning HI-SEC to the ground.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#323 - 2013-01-17 23:09:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Mister S Burke wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:


Yes! You don't get them by doing the same thing everyone else does. If EVE becomes more like other games out there, everyone will have already played it by the time they create a character. The only difference will be fluff (ships instead of toons, planets instead of mountains). That won't retain anyone.


To be clear I am not advocating that, but I do think that the suicide ganking and hulkadeggon stuff in hisec may be doing more harm than good. Some people try to weakly argue about "the economy" but we all know griefing some guy in his miner or blasting an AFK autopiloter is about the lulz and not about the market. I've griefed in game, everyone has, it's all about ruining someones day. I don't pretend to have the answer but I am not sure how much mileage you are going to keep getting by being the "lose you're ass and be made to cry" MMO.

EVE has never gone down in subscriptions because of PvP, stop it.

For 10 years, with a small hiccup that didn't even have anything to with any gameplay mechanic, CCP has made nothing but slow and steady progress. They do not add hundreds of thousands of playrs at a time, no, they add a few thousadn here and there.

Forbes just wrote an article about EVE being one of the few subscription based MMO"s that thrive, and you guys come her and keep talking about pvp is driving subscriptions down.

You're arguement is entirely in opposition to reality.

CCP isn't trying to REGAIN subs, they want MORE subs.

And shitting on your customers has never been a profitable business tactic.



And for record, no one in the minutes said anything about removing pvp or wardecs from high sec. One deve made a bit of a smartass comment that the easiest way to fix a "problem" would be to just remove wardecs from high sec.

Just like soundwave made a comment a few months ago, tongue and cheek, that if they wanted to remove pvp from high sec they would just flip the switch and be done with it.

But CCP keeps saying they WON'T do it.
The were simply fishing for the CSM's idea of ways to ENCOURAGE people to engage in high sec wars. They did not discuss or suggest removing it.

However, two of the CSM's did indeed advocate they do that. In fact, I do believe one of them has an affiliation with a certian high sec training corp that has a long standing rule that when they're decced, you dock. What a shock.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#324 - 2013-01-17 23:11:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Mister S Burke wrote:
To be clear I am not advocating that, but I do think that the suicide ganking and hulkadeggon stuff in hisec may be doing more harm than good. Some people try to weakly argue about "the economy" but we all know griefing some guy in his miner or blasting an AFK autopiloter is about the lulz and not about the market. I've griefed in game, everyone has, it's all about ruining someones day. I don't pretend to have the answer but I am not sure how much mileage you are going to keep getting by being the "lose you're ass and be made to cry" MMO.


The whole trick to "getting" EVE is that you don't cry.

I see people bandy around the phrase "non-consensual PVP." I think they're mostly killers (in the Bartle sense) who want to frame the situation that way because it gives them more of a rush. There is no non-consensual PVP in EVE. You consent to PVP when you undock (and in the case of the market and diplomatic chat/mail, even if you don't undock). If you undock in something that can't shoot back, you need to heed the advice of a certain low-sec industrialist who used to post on the forums a lot: "In a game of cat and mouse, there's no shame in being a better mouse."

Once you understand that, you're in.

Also, whether a ganker is conscious about his effect on the market is irrelevant. The system works as long as enough ships die to keep ore prices up, manufacturing viable, and market PVP feasible. Whether the people involved see the big picture doesn't matter. Ideally, the market's incentives work to influence peoples' behavior the right way.

BTW, I've never ganked or griefed anyone. I don't get anything out of grief play except heartburn. But it's part of the game, and other people who play EVE do get something out of it, and it's not only possible, but not especially difficult, to have the right attitude about it and to take precautions against it.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#325 - 2013-01-17 23:50:45 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:
Mister S Burke wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


Do you have any proof that the market has changed, and that EVE will die if it doesn't turn itself into a WoW clone? Anything at all? No?


..... Drivel......

.5-1.0 = NO PVP

.4 and below, welcome to the jungle.

Fixed.



Ugh. There are no words to describe how reprehensible and non-sandbox like this idea is. You are bad, and you should feel bad.
In one fell swoop you just killed Eve, congrats. Thank ******* God you dont make the decisions around here.

Burke has been in Eve for almost a whole month now. He is like a 3 year old who made a mess in his pants; right or wrong is really irrelevant as long as people pay attention to him.

On the bright side I think we have found a game for him; there's "Hearth and Home" or Minecraft. both sound suitable.


I take it you've never enjoyed greifing on Minecraft survival multiplayer.

Once I accidently set fire to someone's wooden mansion and then blamed it on lightning.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#326 - 2013-01-17 23:56:23 UTC
they will do whatever is good for bussines

if you dont like it,give me your stuff and unsubscribe
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#327 - 2013-01-18 00:01:46 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Mister S Burke wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:


Yes! You don't get them by doing the same thing everyone else does. If EVE becomes more like other games out there, everyone will have already played it by the time they create a character. The only difference will be fluff (ships instead of toons, planets instead of mountains). That won't retain anyone.


To be clear I am not advocating that, but I do think that the suicide ganking and hulkadeggon stuff in hisec may be doing more harm than good. Some people try to weakly argue about "the economy" but we all know griefing some guy in his miner or blasting an AFK autopiloter is about the lulz and not about the market. I've griefed in game, everyone has, it's all about ruining someones day. I don't pretend to have the answer but I am not sure how much mileage you are going to keep getting by being the "lose you're ass and be made to cry" MMO.

EVE has never gone down in subscriptions because of PvP, stop it.

For 10 years, with a small hiccup that didn't even have anything to with any gameplay mechanic, CCP has made nothing but slow and steady progress. They do not add hundreds of thousands of playrs at a time, no, they add a few thousadn here and there.

Forbes just wrote an article about EVE being one of the few subscription based MMO"s that thrive, and you guys come her and keep talking about pvp is driving subscriptions down.

You're arguement is entirely in opposition to reality.

CCP isn't trying to REGAIN subs, they want MORE subs.

And shitting on your customers has never been a profitable business tactic.



And for record, no one in the minutes said anything about removing pvp or wardecs from high sec. One deve made a bit of a smartass comment that the easiest way to fix a "problem" would be to just remove wardecs from high sec.

Just like soundwave made a comment a few months ago, tongue and cheek, that if they wanted to remove pvp from high sec they would just flip the switch and be done with it.

But CCP keeps saying they WON'T do it.
The were simply fishing for the CSM's idea of ways to ENCOURAGE people to engage in high sec wars. They did not discuss or suggest removing it.

However, two of the CSM's did indeed advocate they do that. In fact, I do believe one of them has an affiliation with a certian high sec training corp that has a long standing rule that when they're decced, you dock. What a shock.


Well the point is that we are trying to make is that it is quite possible that when you are unexpectently ganked or griefed you might decide to quit the game.

People who want to play more of a game that punishes them out of the blue at random (like on of those rat mazes with random electric shocks) is in fact a MASOCHIST.

The majority of people who play these games are not MASOCHISTS. There are probaly more SADISTS who like to grief/gank than people who enjoy pain and sufering.

People eventually get fed up with being on the poop end of the stick. This is truly human nature. You will not simply proceed to endure the suffering that people want to inflict on them.

I mean these people want to gank every thing that moves and if they could then those people would get tired of it. Even if they fit out tanks, sometimes they still get ganked with superior numbers. Again the majority of people are not MASOCHISTS and will not tolerate the abuse that the griefers/gankers want to inflict on them.

Look I'm not arguing that griefing/ganking should be removed, I'm arguing that in truth it affects CCP's bottom line and will be addressd accordingly whether we like it or not.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#328 - 2013-01-18 00:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Captain Tardbar wrote:


Well the point is that we are trying to make is that it is quite possible that when you are unexpectently ganked or griefed you might decide to quit the game.

People who want to play more of a game that punishes them out of the blue at random (like on of those rat mazes with random electric shocks) is in fact a MASOCHIST.

The majority of people who play these games are not MASOCHISTS. There are probaly more SADISTS who like to grief/gank than people who enjoy pain and sufering.

People eventually get fed up with being on the poop end of the stick. This is truly human nature. You will not simply proceed to endure the suffering that people want to inflict on them.

I mean these people want to gank every thing that moves and if they could then those people would get tired of it. Even if they fit out tanks, sometimes they still get ganked with superior numbers. Again the majority of people are not MASOCHISTS and will not tolerate the abuse that the griefers/gankers want to inflict on them.

Look I'm not arguing that griefing/ganking should be removed, I'm arguing that in truth it affects CCP's bottom line and will be addressd accordingly whether we like it or not.

I began as a goon, getting ganked, while mining in high sec.

The best thing that ever happend to me, was getting ganked for lulz in high sec.

The thing is, if you're going to quit because you lost something in EVE, you SHOULD.
I love playing games with my brother. Couple years ago my brother moved 16 hours away, I'm man enough to admit I cried the day he moved, and two and half years later I still tear up at the thought of my brother being so far away.

We would play EVE together though, it was nice.
Then he got blown up, and quit. I still laugh at him, and tell him to stop being a pussy and come back.

6 years in high sec. I was ganked once.
It doen't happen often.


See, you're forgetting a very important thing about EVE. All that stuff you make isk to accumulate, is designed, intended, and expect, to get blown up.

I'm sorry, I genuinely do not like saying this. Contrary to what some people might think because of the name of the corp I'm in, I WANT you to KEEP PLAYING. I truelly want you to never leave EVE. I want all your friends to come play, hell I want all my friends to come play.

But the truth is, if you're that attched to something in the game that you would get upset if you lost it, you SHOULD NOT play EVE.
Because the point of everything that gets built in EVE is that it also gets destroyed. The truth is, the best thing you will ever do in EVE is get blown up.

Getting blown up sits up there among the things that EVE is primarilly about.
Null sec, low sec, WH, or high sec, it matters not were you play, only that **** gets blown up.

Beleive it or not, getting blown up is vital to the health of the game. Some of you won't except this, and vehemently refuse to understand, that destruction is actually more important than creation in EVE. The economy is not an afterthought in EVE, it wasn't "tacked on".

In order for things to work in EVE, things MUST get blown up. High sec is not exempt, it never was, it never will be.
You don't have to like it, you don't even have to accpet it; that's fine.

The moment you guys start saying that it would be ok for high sec to have no pvp though. YOU. ARE. WRONG. Period.
You're wrong. The entire game is built upon getting blown up EVERYWHERE.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#329 - 2013-01-18 00:26:23 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
The moment you guys start saying that it would be ok for high sec to have no pvp though. YOU. ARE. WRONG. Period.
You're wrong. The entire game is built upon getting blown up EVERYWHERE.

No, no, it might be necessary. EVE online cannot stay harsh and cold too long before freezing to death by exposure to the elements.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#330 - 2013-01-18 00:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
The moment you guys start saying that it would be ok for high sec to have no pvp though. YOU. ARE. WRONG. Period.
You're wrong. The entire game is built upon getting blown up EVERYWHERE.

No, no, it might be necessary. EVE online cannot stay harsh and cold too long before freezing to death by exposure to the elements.

But that's why god invented thermal socks!

Well...
Someone invented them.

The point is, I wear thermal socks.


And slides.
In the winter, living in a cold state.


And I'll pimp that **** in the middle of a ******* blizzard.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#331 - 2013-01-18 00:43:08 UTC
CSM's, none of whom represent hi-sec, are not in sync with CCP's goal to make money.

Do I say "Story at 11" or "Try and figure out which way this goes"?
Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies
#332 - 2013-01-18 01:03:33 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
Riedle wrote:
[quote=Mister S Burke]

Incorrect. The OP exists because the OP misread the CSM minutes to think that CCP wants a consequence free arrangement in highsec which is could not be further from the truth.

HTFU or GTFO


No! No! Look at how THESE sheep entrails are arranged!! What does HTFU mean, I must confess I'm a closet nerd and deal with regular people on a daily basis.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#333 - 2013-01-18 01:04:28 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
CSM's, none of whom represent hi-sec, are not in sync with CCP's goal to make money.

Do I say "Story at 11" or "Try and figure out which way this goes"?

Interesting.

Isn't one of the guys that advocated the removal of high sec wardecs affiliated with EVE uni?


There's a huge difference between making more money, and alienating your current playerbase in an effort to make more money. The former is fine, the later can cause irreparable damage to your company.

Even Smedly has gone on record saying that more subscribers wasn't wroth the damage the NGE they forced on SWG caused to SoE's reputation.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#334 - 2013-01-18 01:05:54 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
CSM's, none of whom represent hi-sec, are not in sync with CCP's goal to make money.

Do I say "Story at 11" or "Try and figure out which way this goes"?


See this is what I am trying to tell you.

Just because you rally around a banner on the forums, its just as effective as the CSMs trying to dictate policy to CCP.

I personally have no problem with ganking and griefing. I don't care really. I've been known to eye a miner's can on occasion.

But I'm trying to tell you the reality of the situation is that CCP wants to make more money than they are making now. It's what businesses do.

You can post all you want but it won't change the fact CCP wants to make money and that means more subscriptions.

Even if means lowering the bar.

If CCP wants to prove me wrong they can post in this thread that they support the player's right to gank and grief and this argument will be over.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#335 - 2013-01-18 01:08:30 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
[quote=Shinzhi Xadi]


I am the worst EvE subscriber, 5-6 yearly subs, I am giving CCP the least possible Pirate


No offense but you might need an intervention. Shocked


Why? I also have 3 yearly subs to Istaria (another sandbox game, but PvE only) since 2003, and to other 2 PvP MMOs. Many days I play 3 MMOs together.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#336 - 2013-01-18 01:11:14 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
CSM's, none of whom represent hi-sec, are not in sync with CCP's goal to make money.

Do I say "Story at 11" or "Try and figure out which way this goes"?


See this is what I am trying to tell you.

Just because you rally around a banner on the forums, its just as effective as the CSMs trying to dictate policy to CCP.

I personally have no problem with ganking and griefing. I don't care really. I've been known to eye a miner's can on occasion.

But I'm trying to tell you the reality of the situation is that CCP wants to make more money than they are making now. It's what businesses do.

You can post all you want but it won't change the fact CCP wants to make money and that means more subscriptions.

Even if means lowering the bar.

If CCP wants to prove me wrong they can post in this thread that they support the player's right to gank and grief and this argument will be over.

Are you kidding?

Soniclover, soundwave, even solomon himself has said it.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2477230#post2477230
Solomon wrote:
Secondly, the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP).


Just because some people choose to ignore it doesn't mean CCP hasn't been saying it for 10 ******* years!
They say it all the frigging time!
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#337 - 2013-01-18 01:18:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Whitehound wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Whitehound wrote:

You already allow players, who sit docked at Jita and who you cannot shoot, to transfer trillions safely.

If players dock up in a station, logout or jump into a theme park then makes what difference?


I have fun spending 18 hours a day transferring the same 10B back and forth between my characters... oh wait, people don't just "transfer" but use that money for trading, and trading involves a winner and 1 loser per each transaction.

Unless you are making a bad trade do you have two winners. One wins ISKs, the other wins items, and both are happy.


Those who sit at Jita and "transfer trillions" are not there to buy a Rifter but to trade as profession. In trading you either win or lose. When I finished my last public investment I had earned 5 billions for my investors plus a 700M fund manager fee for myself plus 3 billions for myself due to having my own stock to trade.

Someone lost a total of 8.7B to me. It's a third of a Supercarrier, now please excuse me if I say that someone wins and someone else loses. Twisted


Whitehound wrote:

But what is your point? If you are saying that someone sitting inside a theme park and someone else sitting outside are both free from winning and losing then you are wrong. I see Jita itself being already some kind of a "finance theme park" of its own and with players playing God in it.

EVE is full of meta-gaming and people will exploit a high-sec theme park one way or the other. It is already being done when high-end minerals out of 0.0 are being sold at Jita and with low-end minerals disappearing into 0.0. You only won't see PvP with spaceships within it, but everything else will still be there and happening.

I see no problem for anyone who can play EVE now to adapt to a future EVE with a possible theme park in it.


EvE was not born as theme park. This might sound like... duh! Roll

But wait...

... this means the game has NO theme park features, scarce and obsolete PvE, zero "casual player" PvP like i.e. battlegrounds or arenas.
CCP would need to spend years and years just to begin putting down what's needed for a theme park.

Also, I'd like to know how do you level to 90 your pilot... because you know... theme parks need that players regularly outlevel content in order to have a "gear reset", that is the one way to put them in the next tier of grinding. Otherwise with no destruction and no gear reset, everyone has a relatively short time cap before they have done most stuff doable in hi sec and then it's over.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#338 - 2013-01-18 01:23:10 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
they will do whatever is good for bussines

if you dont like it,give me your stuff and unsubscribe


Ruining a unique and challenging MMO with theme-parky ideas is not good business sense.

EVE has no real running story line, it has no single-player-esque questing system, and it marketed as a combat game (point to a video without explosions or war). EVE needs conflict.

The players make the story, the player interaction is the quest, and the bread and butter is war.

Yeah, sure a lot of people are not used to this style of game. It's a niche. But you can't be a niche game that also appeals to the mass market. Niche players want the niche and the mass market wont understand it.
.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#339 - 2013-01-18 01:25:59 UTC
Look at VV using themepark properly.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#340 - 2013-01-18 01:28:51 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:

Well the point is that we are trying to make is that it is quite possible that when you are unexpectently ganked or griefed you might decide to quit the game.

People who want to play more of a game that punishes them out of the blue at random (like on of those rat mazes with random electric shocks) is in fact a MASOCHIST.

The majority of people who play these games are not MASOCHISTS. There are probaly more SADISTS who like to grief/gank than people who enjoy pain and sufering.

People eventually get fed up with being on the poop end of the stick. This is truly human nature. You will not simply proceed to endure the suffering that people want to inflict on them.

I mean these people want to gank every thing that moves and if they could then those people would get tired of it. Even if they fit out tanks, sometimes they still get ganked with superior numbers. Again the majority of people are not MASOCHISTS and will not tolerate the abuse that the griefers/gankers want to inflict on them.

Look I'm not arguing that griefing/ganking should be removed, I'm arguing that in truth it affects CCP's bottom line and will be addressd accordingly whether we like it or not.


Let me tell a thing as one of the guys that Goons call "hi sec intellectual" (wrongly imo) and who enjoys doing L4 missions (expecially when it was worth my time) and even *gosh* mining with a couple of self owned Orca boosted fleets.

This game has its small or even large "sadists" but the utter majority do it for the MONEY.

I WILL sponsor Hulkageddon to get the most ships blown. As a part time "miner".
I will NOT sponsor James 315... because they don't blow enough ships.

Sadist?

No, heavy minerals and ices trader. I enjoy earning four times as much as I could do now. Eradicating the AFKers and botters is healthy for the game and for my wallet so it will happen.


Nothing personal, just business. Twisted

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials