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Dev blog: EVE Online development in 2013 and beyond

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#161 - 2013-01-17 14:38:06 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
Finally... I was really waiting for this blog!


CCP Seagull please, if you have some time, take a look at these treads on my signature, they have some concepts that I have being working on, and you may find interesting. Expecially the "Sandcastle POS" where you build it the way you like...

The first is a vision about the POS revamp (That everyone is asking for, this topic have over 5000 views), in it I tried to gather most of Comunity/CSM/Game Market desires and built something usefull. This feature would be really usefull to the "enablers", and also would open new possibilities of gameplay. Most of people that I showed this says: "This is too good, but I dont think CCP can do It..." so there is the challange, to get as close as possible to this...

The second is something about the industry and the refinning process. Less important then the first but yet, maybe somewhat usefull. If you don't have much time read the first....

I hope you appreciate it, I have put allot of effort in this...

Thx for your time.


As sayed... now the world will burn in flames... http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com.br/2013/01/i-am-small-portion-of-community.html Sad


Huh, POSers just got the same treatment as WiSers... I feel your pain, but let me pont this out: your feature does exist and works, ours neither works nor exists.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#162 - 2013-01-17 14:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost True
Rancor Kane wrote:

Or you should read the origional post I made number 88 of this thread, where I though I made pretty clear that is should not be about a bed or a dress, but it should ad to the exsisting experience and shouldn't be a pretty chat room.

A pretty chat room, B HA HA HA...
Sorry, but looks like for some of us EVE is now just a pretty chat room anyway, because there is nothing to do, after so many years of the same damn thing... kill kill kill kill kill kill kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind kill grind grind...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#163 - 2013-01-17 15:24:44 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Huh, POSers just got the same treatment as WiSers... I feel your pain, but let me pont this out: your feature does exist and works, ours neither works nor exists.


POSes are poorly executed but are necessary and contribute to gameplay.

WiS is beautifully executed, unnecessary, and doesn't contribute to gameplay.

They couldn't be further apart, really.
Jesspa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2013-01-17 16:14:14 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
And the risk of such an approach is that whilst everyone gets a bite to eat, no-one feels satisfied.

Well the proof, as always, is in the pudding (aren't food analogies fun?)

Agree with your point, but I have to correct the oft-misquoted phrase. The proof is never in the pudding. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Cool
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2013-01-17 16:33:54 UTC
Blog contained no content.
Merouk Baas
#166 - 2013-01-17 20:12:27 UTC
My only question is, once you're done with a "theme" and are moving to another "theme," who's gonna fix the bugs of the previous "themes"?

Because you've never relased something that was feature-complete AND bugfree. It's not even possible.

The plan sounds grand, but after, say, 2 years, what we'll have is a bunch of incomplete "themes" and you not fixing any of them because you're working on the next "theme" and don't have time.
John Nucleus
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2013-01-17 21:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: John Nucleus
About lurkers and increasing player interaction:

I think it's important to realize that there is no such thing as a single player experience in EVE. Anything anyone does has an effect that ripples through the whole game. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

A lone miner from an npc corp who spends a few hours a week mining in high-sec has an influence that ripples all the way through null-sec. He might not be socialising directly with other people but he absolutely is interacting with them, indirectly perhaps but interacting nonetheless.

You might ask then why playing a massively multiplayer game? I would simply say that "sharing space" and "being part of" is enough of a reason. I know it is often for me.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody has a complex life outside of Eve and plays the game for their own reason. Who knows, that lone miner might be the CEO of a fortune 500 company who plays Eve just to relax after a hard day of work. Don't expect from him to start a player corporation...

Reading the CSM minutes, I feel CCP Unifex understands that well. So I'm not too worried of them trying to force player to socialise more.

I think what Eve needs to increase player interaction is more visibility about what you can do, not necessarily more stuff to do.

For example, how did I learn about RvB, two corporation in a perpetual war that tops all killboard for the amount of ship destroyed? I learned it from forums, blogs and even some pdf...

How much more awesome would it have been if flying through the region I check a billboard and it says:
"RvB Daily Update
Red:42 Blue:37
Isk destroyed: 220,983,123 isk
Bounties collected: 50,939,234 isk
Daily Best Pilot: Bozo The Mazo
Click here for more info"

Something of the size of RvB should emanates through a series of communication channels to help with discovery.

What is happening in Null-sec? I have absolutely no idea, I hear there's some big battle going on but in game nothing emanates from it. How can I become a mercenary? Or even, how can I know that I can become a mercenary? No idea, I'll have to check the forums. It's as if Eve is on radio silence.

Give us some feeds. Auto-generated daily news of stuff happening. Create a new profession, reporter, and give them a bunch of cool tools like a ingame camera to take ingame photos of event happening. Make player aware of the possibilities and the amount of them being part of them will increase across the map.

You were looking for a theme for the next expansion, here's one: information.
John Nucleus
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#168 - 2013-01-18 00:33:58 UTC
Thinking about it, an even better term would be "awareness". A quick look at wikipedia tells me this:

"Awareness is the state or ability to perceive, to feel, or to be conscious of events, objects, or sensory patterns. In this level of consciousness, sense data can be confirmed by an observer without necessarily implying understanding".

I particularly like the last part where it says it doesn't necessarily imply understanding. I think it goes something like this: awareness -> understanding -> knowledge -> decision. It also goes hand-in-hand with the "getting information easier to make difficult decision" design direction you are going for.

With awareness as a theme you can have something for everyone.
A newbie looking for what do to next.
A pvper trying to figure out what his opponent is doing.
A trader trying to see how and when to play the market.
A null-sec intelligence agent gathering for an operation.
An explorer seeking treasures.
A mercenary looking for a corp to protect.
A bounty hunter chasing its target.
An industrial doing industry stuff while fighting against the UI.
A drone boat pilot trying to see which drone as been damaged...

You could add tools to create new "intelligence" and "counter intelligence" profession. For example, once a ship as been spotted it could be reported to a database. Then the database could be queried for a fee that would be split among the people who provided the data. Maybe even replace "local" by it in some places. For counter intelligence maybe a hackers could create and delete entries, maybe it's a new avatar minigame...

I'm pretty much just thinking out loud at this point but I think you get the idea.

In short
better awareness == more brain == more fun == more player == more $$$ == more Eve
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#169 - 2013-01-18 06:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost True
Whatever... Lookks like they're not reading this stuff about the avatars eighter. Or pretending to.

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
Ramman K'arojic
Lone Star Warriors
Brave Collective
#170 - 2013-01-18 12:53:11 UTC
CCP Seagull, CCP Unifex:
This is my long term vision for EVE & Dust can be developed into to something: this is something that cannot be done in 1 release nor 2.. It applies to High sec, low sec, null sec and involves all aspects of eve play – barring PVP – but should promote PVP..

Introduction of Artificial Intelligences (AI): There would a Hierarchy of AI deployed – racially variants and competing against each other. The hierarchy I imagine would be Racial / Pirate faction -> Constellation-> system -> Local planets (where there is a population or PI Infrastructure)
These AI would be installed in space or on plants. These AI can be destroyed.

So what do these AI do?
A Racial AI – will offer “missions” to individual’s corporations and alliances to accept missions. These are whole series of things to such as – Gather materials to help manufacture Sub AI’s. These would be semi-AI driven and semi user drive… If the user keeps doing the AI keeps telling; keep ignoring and you lose points in the indexes

Once manufactured the missions can be given out to install them in space – where told to install them.
Once installed the newly installed AI provides and coordinates and manages the systems efficiencies such as resource, population controls, imports and exports. To help the AI keep its end up it will create objectives (missions) for players to accomplish; such as locating resources, locating PI resources, WH resource, logistics eg moving Dusties, colony settlers
AI’s would have personality and remember how they have been treated. If you help them frequently they will be nice-positive-happy; if you ignore them and do nothing they will downgrade and become depressed. A happy AI would be willing to apply bonuses faster, whilst a depressed one will remove bonuses. These missions would be semi-AI given out and semi user driven… If the user keeps doing the AI keeps telling; keep ignoring it and you lose points in the indexes - you loose the upgrades.

AI’s would offer objectives to Alliances that would involve all aspects of EVE – PI, Mining, T2, and Salvage, manufacturing
AI would offer objectives to Corporations based upon their profile – are they manufactures, and PVE players. The intention he is to allow the AI to offer long term strategic missions. The intention is to give space something to fight over; especially in null.
AI would offer simplistic missions to individual’s based upon their track record and profile.

Planet AI – would offer most of their missions in the same system. Some example missions would be: for individuals would be ‘Food shortages’, ‘ Water supply’. For Corporations ‘AI systems failure – provide 10 new wetware Mainframes’, ‘Anarchists demand relocation’, Destroy hostile AI, Mutant AI. At the planet level Dust players could get involved – i.e have similar mission in the dust space. Direct rewards being ISK, BPO limited runs, LP

System AI – would offer most of their missions in the current and surrounding systems. Some example mission for System levels: Deliver capital components for building structure, build orbital defense platform. Procure exotic materials (out of region), deliver troops, investigate faint signal (probing).

Constellation AI – would mostly be for missions around the constellation. Missions include: Sabotage, Combat, Kill rouge AI, Patrol there Destroy hostile enemy AI, drop the spy in space – these missions would nearly always be corporate or alliance class. For null space the rewards for these type missions would contribute (or may be replace) the system upgrades currently used to hold Sov), depending on the type of mission profile – how many points its contributes to which category.


Without solving everything: I imagined that there would be a need to create a whole new supply and demand AI model - something that is controlled but never seen by the player; this model will control the demands, outcomes and happiness. There is also be some ‘intelligent’ way of classifying Alliances, Corporations, and each characters behavior attributes of: Mining, Manufacture, NPC combat, PVP – I recommend that these separate scores be stored against each attribute, and updated as part of a regular batch job, and they should decay.

Unlike typical missions with 4 hours to complete; I imagine a variable amount of time; depending on the task – from 24 hours to 8 weeks; that way it can be completed when there isn’t a dread fleet sitting outside your local POS wondering when it will come out of reinforcement. .

In summing up: This a new level of missioning but not FW; offering inclusive missions; however the missions are not-mono dimensional; they will have an impact on the lives of others and the profitability of the space around them; give alliances, corporations, individuals hopefully something to fight for.

Cheers
Ramman
Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
#171 - 2013-01-19 05:29:27 UTC
Quote:
Andie Nordgren is a genderqueer relationship hacker and a key voice behind the Relationship Anarchy movement, which originated in Sweden but is now gaining international interest. Please see Andie's Log for more information.


Haha oh god, bye bye eve, next up a button on the login screen you have to press to say you've checked your CIS privilege, I foresee a repeat of CCP Zulu but not before a load of awful decisions that further damage the game have been made.
Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2013-01-19 06:30:31 UTC
Would love to to see the incursion system looked at. If one could dial back the scale, at least.

Faction warfare comes to mind. Spawning a Faction fleet to support their brothers in arms. Or "turf wars" for npc pirates. One has to reclaim a system by pushing back an incursion. Would be funny if this translated into player 0.0..

Applying to npc corps. With GMs/ISD as CEOs. Now that would be so awesome.

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#173 - 2013-01-19 14:35:37 UTC
Gneeznow wrote:
Quote:
Andie Nordgren is a genderqueer relationship hacker and a key voice behind the Relationship Anarchy movement, which originated in Sweden but is now gaining international interest. Please see Andie's Log for more information.


Haha oh god, bye bye eve, next up a button on the login screen you have to press to say you've checked your CIS privilege, I foresee a repeat of CCP Zulu but not before a load of awful decisions that further damage the game have been made.


So what? What should worry us is her performance in her corporate role, not whatever she does outside of CCP. Roll

(Admiteddly, her link to larp games makes me wonder wether those are good or bad news for the WiS front. Also her interest on EVE "lurkers", which I've put to test in the appropiate thead with no results as, apparently, there's only room for the POS shitstorm...)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#174 - 2013-01-19 15:53:49 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCCP Seagull wrote:

We will involve the CSM in this process as one of the stakeholders, so make sure you use your representatives!


HI SEC has no representatives


Don't hurry, James 315 will soon save highsec.

The Tears Must Flow
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2013-01-19 16:27:13 UTC
Yeah, let's not muddy EVE up with useless space-barbie crap. Meaningful gameplay or toss it in the trash.

CCP has no sense of humour.
TornSoul
BIG
#176 - 2013-01-19 21:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: TornSoul
CCP Seagull wrote:

We will start working to give the ”Enablers” better tools, and to make sure “Instigators” have cool and worthwhile ways to make an impact on the EVE universe when they inspire others to join them. We believe that helping these two archetypes achieve their own goals is the best way to have the sandbox of EVE thrive - by supporting them in creating their own exciting plans and schemes that people can be excited to join


Someone not only "gets it" - But actually puts it to print as a future vision for EVE.

/me bows
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#177 - 2013-01-20 02:36:52 UTC
Congrats CCP Seagull!

A few thoughts I wanted to share with you.

1)
Quote:
Whether in null, Wormholes, low or high sec, the dreams and ambitions of these people inspire others with purpose.


I fixed this for you. :)

2) Loved your experience with LARPing. I myself am not the actor I wish I could be but I respect LARPing for its creativity and courage. Video games are a great tie-in with this. Here in EVE and other games, we are all actors (LARPing to an extent) and exploring and creating without real consequence. To see you in the Chief Creative Officer role like this is exciting because I know it will bring a really deep dramatic core to EVE's picture.

3) I liked your thoughts about helping organizers. As CEO of my corp I spend so little time blowing stuff up. I enjoy being CEO and my corpmates like me doing it, but ANYTHING you can do to help simplify (not OVER-simplify like you all mentioned) is great and I look forward to it.

/The APEVE crew

P.S. One tiny creative suggestion if you don't mind. I suggested this to other dev's before but no one with your pull - DEEP DARK HIDDEN EASTER EGGS in EVE. Stuff that takes years of knowledge and weeks of work to find. Like hidden exploration sites tied in with lore tied in with industry to obtain. In the end - YOU FIND the hidden secret or move along the game for everyone with your hard work. Or a super rare officer module or ship. Don't just make rare and valuable items / features in game item drops....make them easter eggs that take an intellect to deduce. : ) Once this takes off and is publicized - people will love it! More communication and more cohesion will only come of these and all you can do to foster it like you will with organization will add SO MUCH to this game - just like LARPing - but in cyber space. : )

Cheers
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2013-01-20 07:39:53 UTC
I read the blogs again and I see a pattern that is not great.

Seagull, Ripley, Unifex : you guys seem to spout a bunch of forward thinking ideas and strategies. Much like the past. Then comes implemenation and the suckage is revealed. At one point Unifex states that with Seagull's track record, he expects great things. Maybe new blood is needed.

So, let's review 2012:
1) Sounds that are bad (dental drill flag alarm) and don't even have a remotely abstract connection to the action they depict.
2) heavy missles nerfed really badly and called balance
3) NPC drone killing AI is called challenging and most people think it's less fun and just more work.
4) Bounty system that a lot of people hate - at least you could ignore the old one.
5) Unified inventory debacle - meaning that the players told you repeatedly that is was not working and you published anyway with the statement "We really thought it was ready".
6) Mining barges - excellent - 1 out of 6 so far I'm sure there's more if I thought about it.

Some track record. And you pat yourselves on the back for that stuff ...

TL;DR :: you can talk about all the fancy strategies you want, but the devil is in the implementation. The smartest thing you can possibly do is actually listen to your players - no arrogance or ego allowed. I really can't more of the same badly implemented great sounding ideas.
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#179 - 2013-01-20 16:17:35 UTC
How about finishing the bounty system?

CCP knew going into bounty system that bounties cannot really hurt the 900K SP pirate pawn who never flies anything more expensive than a 1M ISK destroyer or the 1M ISK snatch and grab loot hauler. LOL - many gankers are even trial toons. Most pirate toons (excepting those in large to huge corps and alliances) send all the ISK to "secret identity" main toons.

Help us follow the ISK like in RL resistance to organized crime. I want put to bounties on the guys spending the ISK from my looted cargo. Twisted Private detective -- a whole new merc and agents offshoot. Twisted

As it is bounty systems are used more effectively by "the bad guys" as "hit contract" than the good guys. Retribution ought to be named Enforcement. The bounty system is used mainly to hire another layer of toons between the toon ultimately profiting or organizing and their victims.

Gate camps quite often put bounties on victims as a warning with open threats "don't go putting bounties on us - we are older and got lots more money than you". By itself that is only slightly twisted. Easily corrected by dozens of schemes that can limit the bounties placed on newer or less wealthy toons...or maybe just having a recent killmail with the name/corp getting the bounty.

So instead of bring pressure against permanent gate camps from mercs...bounties tend to send more mercs and pirates against gate camp victims!!! Miningbump.com can expand their protection racketeering pressure by adding bounties on miners.

(PS I love the CCP ruling that failing to chat with miningbump members and failing to make pointless constant maneuver while mining makes mining ships probably bots - and thus not covered by griefing rules.

If CCP feels mining needs to require more active player attention...I would rather see CCP add small random pushes from asteroid outgassing. )
Tian Jade
Bad Bumblebee Incorporated
#180 - 2013-01-20 22:41:44 UTC
I think we can play buzzword-bingo with this blog. (There is also another not so nice word for it)P